Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    17-02-2012 @ 04:10 PM
    Posts
    1,304

    GMs Bankruptsy very likely

    Looks like GM will file for Chapter 11 by June 1st

    They have too many things to solve before that date , there is just not enough time,

    Firstly they must negociate with each of the 6500 dealerships so as reduce the number by at least a third. This needs to be done on an individual basis . there are state laws protecting wholesale closures

    The Bond Holders are refusing to accept what GM and Obama demands they do,
    In the government proposal the UAW will get 39% stake in the deal (they are owed 20 billion re the Unions Trust) the goverment gets 50% . shareholders get 1% and the bond Holders get 10% of what is very iffy stock in exchange for 27 billion debt,

    You can understand why the bond/shareholders are not very happy, the Union and Government getting preferential treatment.

    nb the above info gleaned from Yahoo

  2. #2
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Online
    22-11-2011 @ 08:27 AM
    Location
    Christian Country
    Posts
    15,020
    ^ Yep, same with Chrysler bondholders -- Obama calls them greedy.

  3. #3
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    GM is a garbage can. It should never have gotten a dime. The sooner, the better.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
    Thai Pom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 04:02 PM
    Location
    Back in BKK
    Posts
    1,856
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman
    It should never have gotten a dime
    Especially when we all knew this was going to happen anyway!!

  5. #5
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    ^ Yes. Even as a layman, I knew GM is finished.

    Why did the gov throw away this money on them? Maybe for "political reasons" because of the all of the inter-related job losses (millions of jobs that will be eliminated from OEMs, suppliers, etc).

    The gov had to look like it "tried," perhaps.

    Hard to say. We can only speculate.
    ............

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    17-02-2012 @ 04:10 PM
    Posts
    1,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman
    Why did the gov throw away this money on them? Maybe for "political reasons
    Same with British Leyland / Rover Group, money totally wasted to placate the public, especially near election times,

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat
    peterpan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Pleasantville
    Posts
    10,110
    Why feel sorry for the bondholders, in the main they knew exactly what the risk was and counted on the Gummint paying out the full price for their shit script, fvckem.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    17-02-2012 @ 04:10 PM
    Posts
    1,304
    Quote Originally Posted by peterpan
    Why feel sorry for the bondholders, in the main they new exactly what the risk was and counted on the Gummint paying out the ful price for their shit script, fvckem

    True that may be so why punish them unfairly ?

    Why should the Unions who have benefited from GM and helped in its demise be rewarded with 39%.

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat
    peterpan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Pleasantville
    Posts
    10,110
    Presumably the bond holders gambled on a Republican victory when the terms would have been reversed, they would get the full wack and the unions would be stiffed solidly,

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    17-02-2012 @ 04:10 PM
    Posts
    1,304
    ^

    So why stiff any one group ? all contributed , bit of equality would not go amiss

  11. #11
    lom
    lom is offline
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Trapped in an old mans body
    Posts
    8,496
    Quote Originally Posted by TSR2
    Why should the Unions who have benefited from GM and helped in its demise be rewarded with 39%.
    Prolly because it is the workers pension funds and they are prioritized debts.

  12. #12
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on pacific ocean, south america
    Posts
    21,406
    Quote Originally Posted by TSR2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by peterpan
    Why feel sorry for the bondholders, in the main they new exactly what the risk was and counted on the Gummint paying out the ful price for their shit script, fvckem

    True that may be so why punish them unfairly ?

    Why should the Unions who have benefited from GM and helped in its demise be rewarded with 39%.


    Can you elaborate on the 39%?

    I missed this.

    Is this a cash payout by the gov (taxpayers) to union members?

  13. #13
    Banned

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    03-06-2014 @ 09:01 PM
    Posts
    27,545
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman View Post
    GM is a garbage can. It should never have gotten a dime. The sooner, the better.
    Indeed. Free and open market. Live and die by the sword. Fvck 'em.....if they don't have decent business practices, they shouldn't be in business. Enough with the long history of bankruptcies, bail-outs, tax breaks, etc. It's multinational corporations as these that are bringing down their respective economies.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    17-02-2012 @ 04:10 PM
    Posts
    1,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman
    Can you elaborate on the 39%? I missed this.

    Its the stake that the unions would own if Obamas idea goes thru, in compensation for the missing $27 bill owed by GM to the Unions Trust
    Last edited by TSR2; 11-05-2009 at 05:36 PM.

  15. #15
    Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    26-04-2013 @ 07:08 AM
    Posts
    587
    Why all the fuss now? Seems to have been predicted on TD a year ago:

    https://teakdoor.com/us-domestic-issu...tml#post669892

  16. #16
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    17-02-2012 @ 04:10 PM
    Posts
    1,304
    Quote Originally Posted by passengers
    Why all the fuss now? Seems to have been predicted on TD a year ago:
    Who,s fussing ? just watching the Play come to an end!

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    In a rather cold and dark place
    Posts
    12,823
    Quote Originally Posted by TSR2
    Who,s fussing ? just watching the Play come to an end!
    See my thread from this time last year

  18. #18
    Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    26-04-2013 @ 07:08 AM
    Posts
    587
    Quote Originally Posted by mrsquirrel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSR2
    Who,s fussing ? just watching the Play come to an end!
    See my thread from this time last year
    You mean this one here:

    https://teakdoor.com/us-domestic-issu...tml#post678652

    ?

    That will be the one that was copied'n'pasted from the link I quoted, allbeit it took you a week to do it...

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat
    sabang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    07-12-2019 @ 07:44 PM
    Location
    BackinOz
    Posts
    30,811
    Chapter 11 seems to be the best way out to force the recalcitrant bondholders into line. Seems to have worked with Chrysler, but GM is a whole lot bigger. The last thing the country, outside investors and GM employees want is a protracted legal morass. Chapter 11 is the best gun to the bondholders head, basically. Let them moan.

    Fiat is taking a big gamble here in my books- Daimler Benz got caned when it took on Chrysler. But hey, not my money- and surely good news for Amerka.
    probes Aliens

  20. #20
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Online
    22-11-2011 @ 08:27 AM
    Location
    Christian Country
    Posts
    15,020
    ^ Recalcitrant bondholders? Ya, I'd be fekin recalcitrant too if this is the deal:

    Bondholders are being asked to exchange $27 billion of debt for 10 percent of General Motors' stock while the Obama administration has loaned GM $14.5 billion and gave the Detroit automaker until June 1st to come up with a plan.
    5555
    Let's see, GM's mkt cap today was just a notch above $879 MILLION, so 10% of that is $87.9 MILLION in shaky shares (closed today at $1.44 but down to $1.30 in after hours) in exchange for $27 BILLION in debt owing them by GM? And the union's healthcare trust is gonna get 50 cents on the dollar plus a chunk of the restructured co.? 555555555

    The govt keeps this sh*t up and NOBODY is going to lend the Treasury or any US cos. any money unless they jack up interest rates. And even then, investors will still be wary, coz the govt via its "prepackaged" bancruptcies could waltz in anytime and tell the bondholders to FO. Big mistake.

    GM CEO tells bond holders 'take the deal' or else and yahoo finance -- GM

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat
    sabang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    07-12-2019 @ 07:44 PM
    Location
    BackinOz
    Posts
    30,811
    The name of the game is survival Jet, and sure Bondholders and Stockholders take a bath- so do the Unions for that matter through their healthcare funds. Investors have gotten spoilt over the last couple of decades- the plain fact is, when the poo hits the fan they're in the firing line. The US government ain't gonna Nanny them out of this one- they took the risk, they take the Hit. Thats the Free Market, eh Jet?

    Will GM survive? short term probably, but longer term it comes down to if Fiat can turn them around.

  22. #22
    I am in Jail
    Butterfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    01-02-2019 @ 03:12 PM
    Posts
    39,832
    They expect the other car manufacturer that went bankrupt a few months ago to emerge for bankruptcy by August,

    Euros have a misunderstanding of what Bankruptcy Chapter 11 really means in the US, hence some confusion being promoted by the like of bkkandrew who incidentally claim to be proficient in Bankruptcy Laws (a role only a bankruptcy lawyer could fulfill)

    Should GM go into bankruptcy so it has to time re-organize and clean up the books ? probably the only solution now, unless a group of investors come to the rescue

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat
    sabang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    07-12-2019 @ 07:44 PM
    Location
    BackinOz
    Posts
    30,811
    Yeh, Chapter 11 is 'Reorganisation' rather than outright Liquidation.

  24. #24
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Online
    22-11-2011 @ 08:27 AM
    Location
    Christian Country
    Posts
    15,020
    ^ This one is a "prepackaged" bankruptcy, so creditors got sh*t chance to argue their case or go for liquidating assets to get their cash. Obama has already called angry bondholders "speculators". (I wonder if he calls China a speculator for holding T-bonds?)
    The frightening thing is that union healthcare trusts are getting way more back on the buck than the creditors. For this reason, cos. are going to face really tough times attracting debt investors if the govt is going to play "at my whim and fancy" about who gets paid out first when a co. goes t*ts up.
    Get the bladdy govt out of business.
    And why isn't this in Issues?

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat
    sabang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    07-12-2019 @ 07:44 PM
    Location
    BackinOz
    Posts
    30,811
    Employees are senior Creditors to Bondholders, and the most senior Creditor of all is the US government. So who's gonna call the shots? The fact is, Obama could screw them over more than he's doing- and a true Libertarian would argue that he should.

    Depends when you bought GM Bonds I guess- old bonds may have been bought back when GM was actually Blue Chip- but most Bonds are owned by speculators. They bought on the 'too big to fail' hypothesis and they were partly right- but they failed to take into account that a company can survive as an operating entity by going into receivership, and throwing out it's Stock and Bondholders.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •