Killing animals for fun

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Originally Posted by The Zapster

Yes, that is all true enough, but the case becomes objectionable because some people clearly get off on spending thousands of dollars, travelling thousands of miles, to go shoot something happily minding its own business.

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Why? Because she had enough money to pay it, or because she is a woman?
That elephant was going to die, remember our lessons in Game Management?
That bull was going to be culled for some reason, and it cost her a lot of money and they made a lot of money because of rich people like her, if not for them then they would have shot it, took its ivory and the meat would have went where it went anyway, and the only thing the management would have gotten from it was what the ivory sold for, which they most likely kept anyhow.

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Originally Posted by The Zapster

Morally questionable though, innit?

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No it isn't, as we have said before, that is game management, a farmer looks over his herd in the late summer, marks and brands and seperates the ones he is keeping and they go off to a pasture, and the ones he is going to market for slaughter goes to another pasture and await the trucks that are going to come and haul them off to a feed lot or auction, thats the same as Game Management.

whether one enjoys hunting, or is disgusted by it or not:

hunting in south africa and zimbabwe is, believe-it-or-not, part of the conservation effort.
firstly: because of human encroachment and the existence of fencing and farms, which restrict the natural nomadic feeding patterns of elephants: instead of their usually somewhat beneficial effect on the environment, the destruction they cause has to be controlled.
conservation efforts resulted in the stocking densities in national parks and in the wild, severely exceeding sustainability.
south africa used to, and i think still does, cull large amount of elephants annually because of this problem.
elephants (in south africa,anyway) and the populations of other wildlife, have benefitted from these strategies.
nature itself is far crueller than what is percieved to be the cruelty inflicted by a hunter on a poor defenceless elephant which did not drop the second an arrow hit it. (ever watched a baby elephant being taken out by a pride of lions, or a giraffe having its guts ripped out and eaten while it is still staggering along, trying to elude a pack of african wild dog?)
secondly, hunting has reduced the incidence of poaching by the indigenous human-like inhabitants in the rural areas because of the existence of wealthy hunters who pay huge sums of money to kill an elephant, or a rhino or such:
the very same populations who regularly poached rhino for their horn, or elephant for their ivory (usually by the use of far crueller killing techniques than bow and arrow), have been roped into the conservation effort.
the money that the hunter pays for the shoot is ploughed back into the local community, and the meat is donated to the locals.
thy now earn far more money by protecting the wildlife than they ever did by destroying it, and it all seems to be working out fine!

i certainly would not dream of taking a shot at an elephant from 12 metres with a bow. there could be HUGE "complications" involved and although i would not particularly want to shoot an elephant, i think the lady has balls!
remember, also that these are not the tame elephants you come across in thailand. these are wild, dangerous animals, so it is not just a case of walking up to the animal and firing off a shot, a "clean kill" resulting only from an extremely well placed shot and a bad shot, potentially resulting in the death of the hunter.

i would think, though that the african buffalo mentioned in the article, would be a far more dangerous beast to bow-hunt.
they are truly evil motherfkkers, and are known to turn the tables on inept hunters.

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Originally Posted by tsicar

i would think, though that the african buffalo mentioned in the article, would be a far more dangerous beast to bow-hunt.
they are truly evil motherfkkers, and are known to turn the tables on inept hunters.

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Now that I have no quarrel with - I thoroughly enjoy seeing a bullfighter, for instance, get a horn up the jacksy. But creeping up on something and sticking an arrow in its neck is just weird, whatever benefit it brings.

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Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

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Originally Posted by The Zapster

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Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Apart from not putting the elephant out of its misery, I don't know what the fuss is about.
Letting hunters hunt for a huge price actually helps game conservation.
The locals learn that keeping the animals around is more valuable to them than poaching them.

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Morally questionable though, innit?

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If it's a good way to conserve and fund the game park, the animals in it and keep the locals from poaching, who gives a shit?

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You can use that line of argument for many questionable activities - I bet there are lots of struggling villagers who'd welcome Paul Gadd's royalty cheques with open arms, despite what he might do to their neighbours' children.

The 'who gives a shit' defence is weak.

no arguements here, apart from she killed it, therefor she must be made to eat it..the whole ferking thing

It was a 'trophy kill', plain and simple. Oh look at me, the first woman to bravely kill an elephant with a powerful bow. I'll never understand such a subhuman mentality, but when incorporated with money, game conservation efforts and culling I can at least reconcile it. The dollars are put to good use, and it would seem even the meat is used (hopefully).

A couple of things however I don't buy:-

The elephants staggered 500m before collapsing, then was left to expire in due course through blood loss. By the standards of a single Bolt, that is probably considered a clean kill. But why the need to leave it to expire that way, when a single nicotine or whatever dart would have killed it quickly and humanely? Dear Theresa would still have her trophy tusks, the locals would still have their meat, the park it's money. Unnecessary, callous, inhumane- aka subhuman.

'Brave Theresa'- I say bullshit. So our heroine stalked a herd of 37 wild elephants to within 12m and released her bolt. I do not believe those were truly wild elephants at all- now a herd of 37 would have bulls, cows and calves. I was on game safari in Phinda Reserve once, Sth Africa, in a landrover and shooting with a camera (but the Ranger had a gun :) ). We came upon a herd of 13 or so elephants at a water hole around sunset, and what a magic sight it was- the calves frolicking in the water hole, the cows nearby, the bulls standing guard. We got no closer than 20 metres, and we were charged by a bull. Of course we put the Landrover into reverse pronto- and I fired off a shot with my camera- interestingly, the flash stalled the elephants charge. What a shot it was too, real National Geographic stuff- I would scan it and post it right here, except my Bitch of an ex-wife stole those and many other of my photographic memories when we seperated. :( But that is what happens if you approach a herd of wild elephants- you will be charged by a protective Bull, or even a cow if you get too close to the calves- no problems if you back off pronto (although if a bull is on Must it might be a bit more problematic:rolleyes:). That was no herd of 37 true wild elephants Punters- they were well used to having humans around.

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Originally Posted by The Zapster

She looks fucking weird to me...

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SO?, you pull a 90# bow for awhile and do it until it is an accurate pull and see how you look.

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Originally Posted by sabang

then was left to expire in due course through blood loss.

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Bullshit, pobly over 90% of shot animals die of blood and all animals shot with arrows die of blood loss, either you can blow its brains out with a big solid, or a true heart shot and it will still die of blood loss to its systems, faster agreed, but still blood loss. I have never hunted any animal bigger than a mean ass bull Moose, but I always if it is moving lung shoot, and that is a damn sure kill thru blood loss and have had them run for some distance before dropping.
But I like to hunt, just the being out is part of it and I am a meat shooter and my boys were raised to always eat what you shoot if it is a meat animal and not shooting varmits.
I do not really enjoy killing but it is part of living and I myself will die someway in the end.

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Originally Posted by blackgang

I will bet that the elephant that she shot was chosen by the game manager and she killed the one that they were going to cull anyway,

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where is your proof of this blackgang? do you really think that an impoverished african country have the same guidlines in place as buffallo ranges in montana??

if you are going to make groundless assuptions like that, then it would be very easy for me to rebut your claim, and say that the 'game manager' is more than likely poor and corrupt, and only cared about the money, and this bull was an important part of the heard.

i know she is your fellow country(wo)man, but c'mon, don't blindly stand up for this kind of ignorant dispicable behavior...

That Dick Cheney wanker likes to kill African wildlife (along with innocent Iraqis and Afghans)for a laugh, too. Why are people like this allowed to steal our oxygen?

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Originally Posted by blackgang

I do not really enjoy killing but it is part of living and I myself will die someway in the end.

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Your probably likely not going to be shot with a bow at your local tesco lotus whilst out shopping with the family.

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Originally Posted by Bones

and this bull was an important part of the heard.

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No it wasn't, but it may have been an important part of the herd.

^ doh! picked up for a spelling mistake by a dopey builder! :)

All people who do this mindless shiit are Americans. Right?:kma:

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Originally Posted by dirtydog

Your probably likely not going to be shot with a bow at your local tesco lotus whilst out shopping with the family.

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We can always hope though, watch as he he bleeds out over night by the shredded wheat, he says it's quite painless.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by blackgang

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Originally Posted by jim1176

Hunting? This cnut is the ultimate piece of shit. Probably was in the Texas national guard.

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Nope, wrong again

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The Kansas-born woman slaughtered the animal to win a bet with a male friend who said she would be unable to pull the heavy bow required

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Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Apart from not putting the elephant out of its misery, I don't know what the fuss is about.

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Any animal shot with an arrow bleeds out, as did that elephant, not a bad way to go, not much pain and you get weak and go to sleep.
A big bore bullet does a terrific amount of damage as it hits with 3 or 4 tons of energy tears out a chunk of lung generally with a side shot, or you might get lucky and hit the heart, usually lungs and then what happens?
the animal bleeds out thru the hole in his lungs after 3 tons of energy smacked him and that hurts, but does not last long.
for that elephant to drop so quick she had to have hit a main artery and he was bleeding pretty good or he would have went a hell of a lot farther. so who ever wrote the article just don't know what he talking about when he says left him to die overnight, he was dead in a few minutes if he went down that quick, Jesus use some of your mentality here .
I will bet that the elephant that she shot was chosen by the game manager and she killed the one that they were going to cull anyway, I do know thats what happens in Montana when you pays your money to kill a buffalo, the game man goes out with you, points out the one that you are going to shoot and you shoot it, and that all she wrote for about $1000 or more.
same with Elk, they survey the area, and issue so many tags for certain size horns 2, 3, 4, or royals and sometimes cows, then you get a tag and go kill what ever you have a tag for hopefully..
That is game management, and the license and tag money goes back to game management.

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You feel the elephant's pain, do ya Willy?

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Originally Posted by ceburat

All people who do this mindless shiit are Americans. Right?:kma:

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Yes. The definitive mindless consumers {of every sort}.

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Originally Posted by Bones

if you are going to make groundless assuptions like that, then it would be very easy for me to rebut your claim, and say that the 'game manager' is more than likely poor and corrupt, and only cared about the money, and this bull was an important part of the heard.

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Then why in hell didn't you post your rebuttals?

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Originally Posted by Bones

i know she is your fellow country(wo)man, but c'mon, don't blindly stand up for this kind of ignorant dispicable behavior... __________________

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You are the one posting ignorant bullshit, I am from a ranching family on both sides or my family, Beef cattle and sheep, and many large acerage ranches in Central Oregon, so I do know about stock husbandry and how to cull and how to increase your herds to where they are to many animals for your range to support and how to cull and only keep as many as your hay that you harvested this year will support thru the winter.
You saeem to be in complete ignorance of these facts.

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Originally Posted by Bones

where is your proof of this blackgang? do you really think that an impoverished african country have the same guidlines in place as buffallo ranges in montana??

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Whether they do or not, I have never been to africa except to a seaport and never in the outback or in wild areas, but I do know that game managers in most places are intelligent and well schooled in the husbandry of the animals they have under their care. and that they are treated as a natural resource and they get what they can for them and so it is a money making thing as well as for animals protection, and I use common sense, which it seems you do not have, to figure that elephant was going to die if for nothing more than the price of his Ivory and hungry people have poached them for years and they have a damn site worse death that he had. plus she pobly paid 10x for her kill as they would have got for the ivory, so she has saved the lives of 10 elephants if you want to expound on "Guidelines of a poor impoverished african country"

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Hunting elephants for sport is not illegal in some parts of Africa and many tour companies allow tourists to visit on organised hunting trips. Tour operators and hunters argue that elephants get out of control when not properly culled and can destroy crops and small buildings in rural villages.
Villagers in Zimbabwe have been resorting to elephant culls to survive since the economical meltdown caused by the Mugabe regime.

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^Though you seem to know very little, if not anything on the subject, an elephant cull typically involves killing every animal in a herd, you don't just go in and take out a single important member of the herd.

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^Though you seem to know very little, if not anything on the subject, an elephant cull typically involves killing every animal in a herd, you don't just go in and take out a single important member of the herd.

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Seems that is the way some is done now, but with elephants it might be the only way to go as the old way seems to be bad for the younger bulls and lets them do some bad shit without older elephants to control them.

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Originally Posted by blackgang

You are the one posting ignorant bullshit, I am from a ranching family on both sides or my family, Beef cattle and sheep, and many large acerage ranches in Central Oregon,

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I have never been to africa

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Yeah, and i like food, but that doesn't mean that i know all about how to cook northern mongolian beef dishes - coz i have never been there, and their food is very different to what i am used to .

just who is posting ignorant bullshit blackgang? :tosser1:

OK!:fing02:

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

Not OK?:confused:

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

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Originally Posted by Bones

Yeah, and i like food, but that doesn't mean that i know all about how to cook northern mongolian beef dishes - coz i have never been there, and their food is very different to what i am used to . just who is posting ignorant bullshit blackgang?

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What the fuck has not being anywhere got to do with cooking, you ignorant prick.
I have never been to Philly really but I can cook Philly cheese steak you flaming asshole.:)

When I lived in the states I used to shoot squirrels every chance as they are nothing but tree-rats. Strip the bark from sugar maples - terrible things...:(

I used to shoot em off my bird feeders and throw their dead asses in the creek or let the dogs eat em

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Originally Posted by blackgang

I used to shoot em off my bird feeders and throw their dead asses in the creek or let the dogs eat em

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But did you get yourself photo'd over the twitching corpse, gurning like a loon?

The thing here is, it's not about culling, or death, or food or anything other than she's a fucking sad bitch, who gets her kicks out of killing something that was previously daydreaming about getting its 12 foot dick up some chang hotty.

It's all about having standards. This is just so classless, but it's hardly surprising Americans can't grasp that.

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Originally Posted by blackgang

Bullshit, pobly over 90% of shot animals die of blood and all animals shot with arrows die of blood loss, either you can blow its brains out with a big solid, or a true heart shot and it will still die of blood loss to its systems, faster agreed, but still blood loss.

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What about lead poisoning? :mid:

But my point is surely quite simple- the elephant is mortally wounded, as is established without doubt when it collapses. The hunter has her kill.

So then is the time to despatch it humanely with a dart- theres nothing left to prove.
Instead, they just callously left it there, to return next morning to haul or butcher the carcass. I have to assume they weren't expacting it to die within seconds.