Why isn't the Thai government resigning ?

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Originally Posted by Begbie

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Originally Posted by Panda

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Originally Posted by Loy Toy

1. Fact>The ruling party achieved their position by way of vote buying and corruption.
2. Fact>The man who the masses voted for is in exile and convicted of corruption.
3. Fact>His brother-in-law was brought in after the replacement for the man is exile was booted out for corruption.
4. Fact> The PAD are up in arms (as far as I can gather) because of the above 3 points and have in turn acted in my opinion totally against the constitution.

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You are confusing facts with your own personal opinions there Loy Toy.

Every one of your so called "facts" are debatable, and the validity of such claims has been discussed at length in other threads.

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You really are quite demented Panda.

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Fact 1 is incorrect. Fact 2 is true but remember that Thaksin was booted out by the same people who are backing the people in the airport. Have you read the verdict in his case? It was a travesty and the court was a kangaroo court. Fact 3 is incorrect, Samak was booted out for having a TV show, not corruption. Fact 4 is totally wrong, the PAD are not up in arms about any of that, they're up in arms because the piggies at the top don't want to have to share their trough with the piggies at the bottom.

Why on earth do you accuse Panda of being demented? He's quite right.

Let me ask a question here. Why is it that with the reams of information published in Thailand and worldwide on recent Thai history and on Panthamit, with Panthamit being quite open about the fact that they want to return the country to a dictatorship and that they despise and want to disenfranchise the vast majority of the population, with Panthamit ranting and raving words of pure lunacy on TV 24 hours a day, with all the records, analyses, articles, and the words of Panthamit themselves, and the fact that their policies and tactics are being condemned world-wide do some farang people here support them?

^ not supporting this "illegal" government doesn't mean it is a direct support of the PAD ?

I would rather see Thaksin at the top than those guys, but the facts remain, he went too far and he got caught. He could have done it right but he chose to fuck it up. If he really had the interests of the Thai people at heart, he wouldn't have fucked up like he did, and do everything he could to change things, like he promised, and that includes stopping himself from his own temptations.

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Originally Posted by Begbie

You really are quite demented Panda.

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Really?
Im upset now.

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Originally Posted by Loy Toy

1. Fact>The ruling party achieved their position by way of vote buying and corruption.

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Fact 1 is incorrect.

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DrBOb quite possibly you and I have 2 different souces of information.

Based upon discussions with Thai people from just about every walk of life in Thailand they unanamously agree that the last election was won with the use of bribes and vote rigging.

Yes I very rarely read newspapers or cut and paste internet news articles as I prefer to listen to the people on the streets and then make my own judgement.

At the same time I may be wrong (I have been in the past) but I believe what I posted is the truth.

What is going down at the moment is driving Thai society down and it is quite heartbreaking to see it happen.

Only wish that somebody clean would come along and take this country over for the good of the Thai people and us farang that want to contribute here.

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Fact 1 is incorrect.

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Election 2001 and 2005, he did buy the vote. Last one in 2007 was more tricky, they did made promises of future payments, not sure if it was delivered.

^^up to you, it's a point I'm very tired of debating. I've produced masses of evidence on here that the last two elections weren't rigged or bought, nobody has provided any real evidence otherwise. Unfortunately gossip and innuendo and "what everyone knows" have always been more powerful than the truth. e.g you see any supporting evidence for butterfly's claim up there? Me neither. Me? I'm sick of the whole thing, farangs are just as stupid as Thais are just as stupid as most of the human race:(

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ not supporting this "illegal" government doesn't mean it is a direct support of the PAD ? I would rather see Thaksin at the top than those guys, but the facts remain, he went too far and he got caught. He could have done it right but he chose to fuck it up. If he really had the interests of the Thai people at heart, he wouldn't have fucked up like he did, and do everything he could to change things, like he promised, and that includes stopping himself from his own temptations.

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Exactly on the mark there butterfly.

I too would welcome Thaksin back (and for what it is worth) as long as he doesn't step across the line as he did before.

shouldn't this be in issues or mkp, both of which I have on ignore?

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

I've produced masses of evidence on here that the last two elections weren't rigged or bought,

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where ? link ? you are starting to sound like Boon Mee and Jet making all kind of unfounded claims, I will be curious to see those undeniable evidence

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Let me ask a question here. Why is it that with the reams of information published in Thailand and worldwide on recent Thai history and on Panthamit, with Panthamit being quite open about the fact that they want to return the country to a dictatorship and that they despise and want to disenfranchise the vast majority of the population, with Panthamit ranting and raving words of pure lunacy on TV 24 hours a day, with all the records, analyses, articles, and the words of Panthamit themselves, and the fact that their policies and tactics are being condemned world-wide do some farang people here support them?

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Other than PaulSmithson, i haven't seen anybody on here in full support of PAD. Perhaps you are confusing being anti Thaksin with being a supporter of them?

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Originally Posted by Loy Toy

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Originally Posted by Panda

You are confusing facts with your own personal opinions there Loy Toy.

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No Panda, what I have quoted I believe is true and based upon what has happened in the past, including advice and quotes by Thais, not farang.

You have every option to dispel my claims and I would be quite happy to respond and consider anything worthwhile you have to add.

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These things have been debated over and over again in various threads.
I am not going to debate each one of them point for point with you.
What I am saying is you are mixing your personal opinion with some facts and trying to present the package as totally factual. A plain and simple misrepresentation of the truth. Just because you may actually believe what you claim doesn't make it a fact.

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Originally Posted by Panda

I am not going to debate each one of them point for point with you.

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of course, you won't :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Panda

A plain and simple misrepresentation of the truth.

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Sweet Jesus !!!

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Originally Posted by pickel

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Let me ask a question here. Why is it that with the reams of information published in Thailand and worldwide on recent Thai history and on Panthamit, with Panthamit being quite open about the fact that they want to return the country to a dictatorship and that they despise and want to disenfranchise the vast majority of the population, with Panthamit ranting and raving words of pure lunacy on TV 24 hours a day, with all the records, analyses, articles, and the words of Panthamit themselves, and the fact that their policies and tactics are being condemned world-wide do some farang people here support them?

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Other than PaulSmithson, i haven't seen anybody on here in full support of PAD. Perhaps you are confusing being anti Thaksin with being a supporter of them?

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No, let me put it more clearly, why do some people believe that Panthamit are what they say they are when there is so much evidence that what they actually are is a force for authoritarianism and disenfranchisement?

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Originally Posted by Panda

Just because you may actually believe what you claim doesn't make it a fact.

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Strangely enough my opinions are based upon what some very influential and trusted Thai people have advised me with no particular gain for themselves (and by telling me).

Evidence is gained normally by the testimonials of witnesses and there are a lot of witnesses here that would confirm my posts as true.

[quote=pickel;856678]

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Other than PaulSmithson, i haven't seen anybody on here in full support of PAD. Perhaps you are confusing being anti Thaksin with being a supporter of them?

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It is interesting how the Thaksin obsessionists are now trying to distance themselves from PAD. Its not only happening here on TD, but in the Thai English media as well. Trying to back out of earlier positions and retain some face.

^^Don't you know that the PAD are a front for "very influential and trusted Thai people"? Of course that kind of person would support them. Nor is evidence normally gained by testimonial of witnesses, the kind of evidence you're talking about is normally gained by cross-examining witnesses, very different from asking for a testimonial.

What do you think of PAD's plan to appoint 70% of parliamentarians and only allow certain groups to vote for the other 30%? What do you think about the fact that they persistently state that the majority of people in this country are too dumb and too greedy to vote? Do you support those stances?

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ not supporting this "illegal" government doesn't mean it is a direct support of the PAD ?

I would rather see Thaksin at the top than those guys, but the facts remain, he went too far and he got caught. He could have done it right but he chose to fuck it up. If he really had the interests of the Thai people at heart, he wouldn't have fucked up like he did, and do everything he could to change things, like he promised, and that includes stopping himself from his own temptations.

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Sums up thoughs exactly. The situation is not as simple as red or yellow. I think a lot of people who support 'red' are confused.You can support the present system (which is only slightly broken and can be fixed) without supporting PPP and Thakin.

Agreed Mr T blew it. He showed his true nature and cannot be entrusted with such power again.

One question. Why do they have to pay the people of Isaan to vote for them if they are supposed to represent their best interests? Surely they should just not pay (as they would vote for them anyway) and they would also not run foul of the law).

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by Panda

You are confusing facts with your own personal opinions there Loy Toy.

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Au contraire, you are making blank statements that have nothing to do with reality, LT is right on the money, maybe you were living overseas during that period and have no clue,

This is exactly how it happened,

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That's one thing I have always wondered about poster on these sites. How many have have lived here (on a continuous basis) since Thaksin came to power and have been able to follow things in detail on a daily basis, as opposed to other who might have come latterly or periodically. I am sure it could have some bearing on ones take on things.
Could make another poll?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Panda

It is interesting how the Thaksin obsessionists are now trying to distance themselves from PAD. Its not only happening here on TD, but in the Thai English media as well. Trying to back out of earlier positions and retain some face.

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Since that quote was from me, are you inferring that I obsess about Thaksin? Or that I've been close to the PAD? :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Loy Toy

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Originally Posted by Panda

Just because you may actually believe what you claim doesn't make it a fact.

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Strangely enough my opinions are based upon what some very influential and trusted Thai people have advised me with no particular gain for themselves (and by telling me).

Evidence is gained normally by the testimonials of witnesses and there are a lot of witnesses here that would confirm my posts as true.

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"Testimonials of witnesses" !!?
Did they swear on the bible in a court of law or are you confusing it with hearsay and political gossip again.
Everyone has got a right to put their opinion up here. Just don't try to present your personal opinions as proven facts, --- especially with such a flimsy excuse its based on the "testimonials of witnesses" that don't exist.

How long have you been in Thailand Panda ? and do you remember clearly those times when it happened ? I have an idea you didn't really follow any of it when it happened, and you are getting your info from some unreliable source

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

What do you think of PAD's plan to appoint 70% of parliamentarians and only allow certain groups to vote for the other 30%? What do you think about the fact that they persistently state that the majority of people in this country are too dumb and too greedy to vote? Do you support those stances?

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The majority of people in every country are too dumb and too greedy to vote. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to though.

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Originally Posted by BKKBoet

How many have have lived here (on a continuous basis) since Thaksin came to power and have been able to follow things in detail on a daily basis,

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Quite interesting you should bring this point up Boet.

Whilst considering the points of DrBOb and Panda I was thinking about one of the ploys all of us long term ex-pats use and around election times.

What we did, and during the week leading up to an election is, and when we had to travel on the Tollway is present a 1,000 Baht note and claim we had no change. More often then not the collection officer would tell me they had no small notes and would wave me on.

This very ploy was advised by one of my "very influential and trusted Thai people" as most other Thai's know the score and before an election and do the same.

All the small notes are collected and for the purpose of..........................! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Based upon discussions with Thai people from just about every walk of life in Thailand they unanamously agree that the last election was won with the use of bribes and vote rigging.

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Odd the EC found so few cases to prosecute even though they certainly looked under every rock in their quest to disqualify PPP parliamentary winners.

Odd every posts I have seen from TD members regarding this issue and live in Isaan or the North, state they didn't see or hear of any evidence of vote buying.

Guess we will just have to accept the common wisdom of the Thais from all walks of life you have spoken with. I'm sure most of them are residents of the "corruptible" regions of Thailand and personally got the big payoff? :confused: