Purchasing power parity

**benbaaa** · 18-04-2006, 11:05 AM

In terms of Purchasing Power Parity, Wikipedia has the UK ranked at 17th (US$28,938) and Thailand at 66th (US$7,901).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita

**DrAndy** · 18-04-2006, 11:11 AM

so Ben, PPP means that although London is the 3rd most expensive place in the world, it is about 17th in terms of actual buying power, or money to spend and value obtained?

it is still way, way above Thailand, although Bangkok is more expensive than most of the country

are we comparing countries or capital cities here??

**benbaaa** · 18-04-2006, 11:14 AM

The first set of rankings was cities, the second and third were for countries. I know, it makes a total nonsense of my entire argument!

**DrAndy** · 18-04-2006, 11:35 AM

well, the original post was about UK.v.Thailand

so we can forget the cities as they are a special case (although salaries do tend to be higher to compensate for increased costs)

**William** · 18-04-2006, 11:58 AM

Many in UK 'have £10,000 debts'

Almost two million people in the UK owe more than £10,000 on credit cards, overdrafts or other unsecured loans, a survey has suggested.

About 500,000 owe more than £20,000, the survey for debt consultants One Advice found.

About half of those owing £10,000 had taken out loans, about 350,000 had used credit cards, and 83,000 overdrafts. Others owed family and friends money.

GfK NOP conducted 1,910 interviews in February and March.

Most personal borrowing in the UK is in the form of mortgages, where the loan is secured on the property.

But this survey found many people are running up big unsecured debts too.
People aged between 35 and 44 were most likely to have run up significant debts, with around 650,000 people in this age group owing more than £10,000.

But more than 200,000 18 to 24-year-olds also owed at least £10,000 - about one out of 20 people in that age group.

"With many unsecured borrowing products having high interest rates, many people are entrapped in debt, often only paying off the interest accrued every month as opposed to the capital they have borrowed," said Chris Holmes, chief executive of One Advice.

"Those caught in this situation need to take action otherwise it is likely that they will fall further into debt."

IVAs
Last year, about 70,000 people in England and Wales became insolvent - for most, this means being declared bankrupt which can make it difficult to borrow money in future.

However, an increasing number of people are reaching deals with their creditors called individual voluntary arrangements, which involves a partial repayment.

Earlier this month, the government announced it was providing £45m to employ 500 independent debt advisers over the next two years.
The money will be used to help people in England and Wales gain personal advice on how to cope with their debts.
Through the government's Financial Inclusion Fund, it is being channelled to a number of organisations such as the Citizens Advice Bureaux.

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4914830.stm

yep, I can certainly see how living and working in the UK is going to be good for my financial health

**machangezi** · 18-04-2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by colourful-era

Originally Posted by Smeg

Average salaries in the UK are ten times higher than in Thailand, and yet the average cost of living there, like for like, is about three times higher. Go figure.

I think this is the point a lot of you miss.

It's ok if you're on an expat salary here but if you are Thai then you are seriously poor in comparison.

Take a Mcdonalds worker here - 25B per hour.

Mcdonalds worker back home - 5GBP per hour (min. wage).

So here a Thai in that situation would have to work for 2 hours for a decent meal wheras his counterpart in the west would only need to work for say 20 minutes.

Thus the Thai is 6 times poorer.

maybe true, but there are many other factors to be taken into account

I thought we were talking about expats in Thailand, not local workers

even TEFLers get more than 25B/hr, I think

A lil correction here!

McDonald's wage in the UK starts at 4.25 pounds / hour.
McDonald's wage in LOS starts at B50/hr.

**DrAndy** · 18-04-2006, 01:25 PM

Macha, the minimum wage in Uk is GB5.75 per hour, I think

**Lily** · 18-04-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Macha, the minimum wage in Uk is GB5.75 per hour, I think

In Australian Maccas has an agreement with the DLI to pay under the minimum award rate.
There was much contention about it at the time.

**colourful-era** · 19-04-2006, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Macha

McDonald's wage in LOS starts at B50/hr.

ok, cheers Macha - is this an hourly rate or is it salary based?

even if an hourly rate it still means the old burger flipper is one skint as hell dude!

**mad_dog** · 19-04-2006, 01:30 PM

Check box to express interest
A 1 bed Flat located in North Slough priced at £105,000

GREYSTOKE ROAD, SLOUGH, BERKSHIRE, SL2 1TS A one bedroom first floor flat benefiting from good decorative order throughout, would suit ideal first time buyer or buy to let, situated close to Slough Trading Estate and within easy reach of the M4 Motorway. Benefits Include 15ft Lounge, 10ft Fitted Kitchen, Double Bedroom, Modern Bathroom Suite. No Onward Chain
STATUS: Sold Subject to Contract Added/Updated: Tue Jan 24 10:50:35 2006

Secondary Glazing

Gas Central Heating

Communal Garden

Close to Amenities

Close to Motorway Slough is the shiite hole of the world .... That is 7,068,934.73 THB for a crappy one bedroom shit hole estate full of chavs and single mums and crack head Somalians ..... Yeah England is great smeg....

**baldrick** · 19-04-2006, 06:06 PM

http://www.economist.com/markets/big...ory_id=5389856

**Smeg** · 19-04-2006, 08:49 PM

The point that the Thaiphiles have completely overlooked (as expected, because they are incapable of seeing the full picture beyond their own circumstances) which Colourful Era mentioned is comparing local for local. There is no way that the average Thai can afford a car, international holidays, quality first world products etc, which are the kind of thing that make the average standard of living much higher in the West.

As for house prices, they reflect the general current wealth levels of each country, and I think you'll find that Thais spend an equally high percentage of their salaries on housing as Brits. If you personally find housing expensive back home, it just means you rank below average in wealth earning ability.

Hence my comment that if the likes of TEFLers can make a better standard of living here than back home, they are relying on their knowledge of their own language, and are incapable or have excluded themselves from decent earnings potential in their own economy. I think only a simpleton would be proud of that.

**Smeg** · 19-04-2006, 08:53 PM

For my situation, I earn the equivalent of 12k pounds per year here (70k baht), working three days per week. Five days per week would give me 20k (115 k baht). The guys doing the same job as me in Europe earn just over double, 40-45k pounds full time.

I have sacrificed BMW ownership and twice yearly skiing holidays to be able to work three days per week here, and spend the free time pursuing hobbies.

**mad_dog** · 19-04-2006, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

I have sacrificed BMW ownership and twice yearly skiing holidays to be able to work three days per week here, and spend the free time pursuing hobbies.

And only a couple of years ago you were a lowely state school teacher doing his QTS . Amazing!

**friscofrankie** · 19-04-2006, 09:59 PM

Left the States makin $120k (averaged over the last five years) a year "part time" (actually worked a hell of a lot of hours for about 6-8 months out of the year) this was well above average income for the area. I found it quite difficult to "make ends meet" living in the bay area. Yeah drove a BMW, had a couple more, hobby BMW 2002s, in the garage, great DSL connect with five IPs registered in my name. Big screen TV, Monster Stereo in every room. hundreds of TV channels and my neighbors spoke English, well, most of 'em.

Don't live the same life I did back there. "Western Quality" goods are not as readily available here... all true. But food, housing, utilities clothing are cheaper here. yes Smeg this is a poor country. If I had to live on 4000 baht a month I might find it uncomfortable. I mean a month to earn what I'd spend on a "not-so-special" date?

Are you stating Thailand is a poor country? Absolutely true. Subject over. Thread locked. There it is. Living here is cheaper and earning enough to "get by' is very easy. "Getting by" here just isn't as miserable as it is in the west, is it?

From all of your various anti-thaiophile posts, one could be excused for believing you don't like it here, yet you claim you do. Actually make enough statements and indications that living here allows you the opportunity to live a pretty good life without having to work all that hard. Not really possible back home now is it? I don't miss my Cars (all that much). Don't really miss the availability of imported goods (all that much), even asian foods are more plentiful back home; wierd, ain't it?

Life in Thailand, where it's always "Summertime and the livin' is easy" it is cheaper to live here, it is easier to live here. The office wokers back in the states usually had to share a small two room apt to get by, same as the office workers here. here, a full time teacher (outside of the city) can afford an unattached home or a townhouse and a small used import car similar to the west. Where I'm from, you planned n 50% of your disposable income for rent/mortgage. 50% of a middle income here will get you a hell of a pad jack, 'specially if you're Thai, know the ropes and aren't so 'western picky."

Dude workin in McDonalds is dirt poor no matter what country they're livin in. let's facve it there isn;t a country in the world where mcdonalds wil lgive you a living wage. actaully, lesse, at 50 baht per hr X 8 hrs X 22 days a month. that's 8800 a month!! That is a living wage dude could get a 1500 baht apt. another 3-400 per month for utils, tha leaves 6k for food, entertainment and incidentals. Remember the dudes workin in what is basically a high-end, expensive restaurant when compared to 10 - 20 baht noodles, 35 baht large beers, that is the norm.

Now let's take teh same dude, put him in SF workng McDonalds at $4.35 per hour. same hours. Total comes to 765 bucks, the taxes/SS/SDI will get only about 15% at that rate. Now let's fid him a place to stay... hmm seem to remember the residetial hotels down the tenderloin might go for about 3-400 a mo. But That shits probabaly gone by now remember they were rootin' 'em all out 'bout 5 years ago, well if three of his buddies get together they might find a one room bedsit in the richmond for about $900 this'll have a small cooking area, one 15'X15' room and a tiny bathroom. Similar to that 1500 baht room, maybe more nicely finished. There just ain;t no cheap places to be had n the City anymore. SOMA has gone through the roof, bay view's gone yuppie hell even hunters point is getting trendy. But one room "flat" is gonna cost 1000. So now he's got his 300 part to pay. leaves less than 400 for food entertainment and incidentals. Mama noodles are about 20 cents a pack, meat? 28% fat burger meat is about 2.00. Veggies? lets figure about 60 cents a pound. bread abot 2.00 a loaf.

hell man at 75k a month you're livin large and you know it. if you had a kiniow wife you'd be drivin a new car livin' in a nice townhouse in a decent neighborhood... you could be havin' things man if you wanted. Learning to respect the almight Baht the way a Thai does 75k is a very livable salary. Different game here. Back in the States, man, living on 7-8 times that, I'd have about the same, course I wasn;t nearly as careful as I am now with the ol' lady doggin' me.

Difference is, the dirt poor here can survive, without welfare or government supplemented income. no food stamps here. No real need for 'em is there?

Very few folks livin' n the streets here, very few. Folks can always thow up a shack somewhere and squat if need be, food is cheap. Rarely see folks eatin from garbage cans here.

**Fabian** · 20-04-2006, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

"My daughter, for instance, has a mortgage of GB200K which swallows up her and her husbands salaries. "

Thats a bit of a millstone. That kind of leverage is high risk in a benign inflationary environment.

If inflation is high, it is not high risk but a good idea.

**colourful-era** · 20-04-2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by friscofrankie

Now let's take teh same dude, put him in SF workng McDonalds at $4.35 per hour.

Is that seriously the minimum wage in the US?

Before I left for LOS (from UK) the min wage for 25yr old plus was 5GBP (about 7.5 USD) and maybe 4.20 for a 16 year old (6.50USD).

I believe the rates have since gone up.

From my calculations if you work in McD's in UK you should bring home about 150 GBP per wk after tax.

You can rent a cheap room for about 50 GBP a wk , maybe 5 pounds on utilities.

You'd still be better off working in a burger joint back home than you would as a Thai working in Thailand.

I guess if you use the Bay area (one of the most expensive places to live) as your standard then this will surely distort the argument.

Originally Posted by friscofrankie

Rarely see folks eatin from garbage cans here.

No one eats out of garbage bins here because very little food is thrown out - plus it rots very quickly. So people only 'live' out of the bins in the West because they can find food easily there due to the throwaway culture.

Originally Posted by friscofrankie

That is a living wage dude could get a 1500 baht apt.

A 1.5k a month room here (in BK) would be one absolute squalid hovel.

**qwerty** · 20-04-2006, 12:01 PM

50 Hanoi, Vietnam 50 San Francisco, United States 52 Chicago, United States 52 Beirut, Lebanon 54 Riga, Latvia 54 Kiev, Ukraine 56 Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam 57 Miami, United States 58 Algiers, Algeria 59 Casablanca, Morocco

I'm amazed to see that Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City and San Fransico are equal or nearly equal in the cities cost of living index. SF is very expensive and I was under the impression that Vietnam was on about the same level as Thailand!

**DrAndy** · 20-04-2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by Smeg

I have sacrificed BMW ownership and twice yearly skiing holidays to be able to work three days per week here, and spend the free time pursuing hobbies.

And only a couple of years ago you were a lowely state school teacher doing his QTS . Amazing!

MD, you are being bad. You are not meant to remember past information and use it to call someone a "Walter Mitty"

let the poor guy have his fantasies; if he wants to try to make us think he was a well off and successful person back in Bournemouth (!), well let him.

He is an angry person so you had better not stir him up. Just look at his avatar, he is prob a black belt by now

**machangezi** · 20-04-2006, 02:05 PM

Do they have belt ranking system in Muay Thai?

**DrAndy** · 20-04-2006, 02:10 PM

oh, is that a Muay Thai avatar he's got?

I thought it was a karate kid

**machangezi** · 20-04-2006, 02:16 PM

That's a Thai star if I'm not wrong Doc.

**Lily** · 20-04-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I thought it was a karate kid

You're showing your age Andy Pandy.

**ozman** · 20-04-2006, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

he is prob a black belt by now

Yeah, in Oragami

**DrAndy** · 21-04-2006, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I thought it was a karate kid

You're showing your age Andy Pandy.

not difficult Lily

but what is a karate kid wrt age?

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