Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Thailand Expat
    Bexar County Stud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    09-02-2013 @ 08:22 PM
    Posts
    1,034

    Nosy, way-out-of-line Airlines?

    I'm visiting my home in the US with my Thai GF, who is a teacher and is most certainly not one of Thailand's "night girls."

    Obtaining a visa at the embassy was a cinch, in fact they granted her a 10 year multiple entry.

    Here it is just a few days before we leave, and I get a frantic phone call from our travel agent, who relays to us our airline's demand that we furnish them an address and phone number of where we are staying in the US.

    I've never heard of this kind of thing before, and I'm feeling a little pissed off about it. Having already gotten a visa from my government, who are the airlines to be demanding private information?

    We will gladly produce such information to US customs officials if they ask for it on arrival. But to the airlines?

    Is this a common procedure? What ya think?

  2. #2
    RIP
    Happyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    31-01-2011 @ 09:29 PM
    Location
    Rawai Phuket
    Posts
    6,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud View Post
    I'm visiting my home in the US with my Thai GF, who is a teacher and is most certainly not one of Thailand's "night girls."

    Obtaining a visa at the embassy was a cinch, in fact they granted her a 10 year multiple entry.

    Here it is just a few days before we leave, and I get a frantic phone call from our travel agent, who relays to us our airline's demand that we furnish them an address and phone number of where we are staying in the US.

    I've never heard of this kind of thing before, and I'm feeling a little pissed off about it. Having already gotten a visa from my government, who are the airlines to be demanding private information?

    We will gladly produce such information to US customs officials if they ask for it on arrival. But to the airlines?

    Is this a common procedure? What ya think?
    Wouldnt worry

    I have had this a few times when I was travelling and then it was due to the Airline that my return flight was booked with had announced rescheduling of flights or times in the near future - and the Airline/agent needed to know a contact at my destination in case my flight was affected.

    Have a good trip !

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    24-12-2018 @ 04:38 PM
    Posts
    1,215
    ^^
    IMO it is all part of "The War on Terror". The US government now requires significant amounts of information from those entering the country. I heard it was something like 30 something pieces.
    Airlines are asked to furnish this information prior to their planes landing in the US.
    OK for US carriers but it has caused a bit of a brouhaha with non US carriers. It required several meetings between the US government and the EU to agree as to what information would be furnished by their carriers and what would not.
    The US wwere prepared to ban carriers not supplying the information

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
    Gallowspole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    2,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud View Post
    I'm visiting my home in the US with my Thai GF, who is a teacher and is most certainly not one of Thailand's "night girls."

    Obtaining a visa at the embassy was a cinch, in fact they granted her a 10 year multiple entry.

    Here it is just a few days before we leave, and I get a frantic phone call from our travel agent, who relays to us our airline's demand that we furnish them an address and phone number of where we are staying in the US.

    I've never heard of this kind of thing before, and I'm feeling a little pissed off about it. Having already gotten a visa from my government, who are the airlines to be demanding private information?

    We will gladly produce such information to US customs officials if they ask for it on arrival. But to the airlines?

    Is this a common procedure? What ya think?
    Why does it upset you that they want this information? You demonstrated in a previous thread that you believe anyone can impinge on the civil liberties of anyone else. So why be hypocritical now?

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Last Online
    03-12-2019 @ 02:29 PM
    Posts
    147
    It is, most likely, a 'Homeland Security' thing. Otherwise, they'd just want an email addy / phone number. Travel agents are supposed to provide significant info to DHS ahead of your flight.

    A note about US Customs: If you're bringing a laptop, encrypt (TrueCrypt or PGP) or delete any porn / dubious bookmarks. Empty your recycle bin, temporary internet files, etc. They will almost certainly have a look at your folders. If they find any porn (even adult porn, which is not necessarily illegal), there is a very good chance they will seize your laptop and send it to Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE will then go through all of your shit and FedEx the laptop back to your US address in about a week to ten days. Or longer. They also mirror the drives and can hold on to the copies as long as they like.

    If you have anything you REALLY don't want them to see, it's probably best to not bring the laptop at all, or encrypt it and UPS it. Again, it's important that there isn't anything easily accessible that would arouse their interest at the secondary screening.

    Same advice for USB drives, digital cameras, and your phone(s). They can and sometimes will, go through your text msgs and images on the phone.

    If you refuse to provide passwords, etc., they will just take the device and give you a receipt.

    If you bring any paperwork, be it diaries, bank statements, business cards, wallet, anything at all, they will read through it at the secondary inspection point, and even make copies of anything they like. They can and will question you at length about any of these materials as well as detailed questions about your work, background, and activities in Thailand. The questions are very detailed and intrusive.

    At the end of the secondary inspection a report will be entered into the computer about you while you are standing there, which you will not be given a copy of or allowed to see.

    They generally do not answer any questions themselves. Whatever job they are doing (or think they are doing) is far beyond 'Customs' as we knew it before.

    If you refuse to answer their questions, they will detain you for a period of time and at minimum you will get a thorough police style 'pat down' in a separate room.

    This all takes place at the secondary screening. Coming from Thailand, the chance of being selected for secondary screening is high, especially if you say you are an English teacher, happen to be male, and are carrying any kind of computer or data storage devices. Yes, they are actively 'profiling' for pedos.

    Also important that if your gf is stopped she not say anything indicating an intent to marry you. If they can come up with some rationale that she is entering the country for any purpose other than tourism they will deny her entry.

    Don't bring any CDs DVDs copy jeans or contraband whatever through or it may be seized. They don't seem to be able to tell if software is legit once it's installed on your laptop, but any dodgy Panthip CDs are going to get looked at. Fake brand clothing is tolerated at 1 item each type if it seems like it's just your clothes. They don't seem overly concerned about this, but if you push it, they will seize your stuff and there may be monetary or other penalties beyond that.

    I'd recommend being ready to give some kind of bland accounting of yourself before you get there. At least for the time being, there is no way around this.
    Last edited by johnbkk; 22-03-2008 at 04:52 PM.

  6. #6
    Member
    Khun Custard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    23-08-2017 @ 07:28 PM
    Location
    Not where I want to be
    Posts
    707
    ^^^ Faruke!!
    So I guess the problems with US economy will not be remedied by foreign tourism in the near future..... Imagine the welcome you'd get if you held a work visa from an Islamic country.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    24-12-2018 @ 04:38 PM
    Posts
    1,215
    European Commission caves in to US demands for airline and shipping passenger lists
    - data protection law by-passed
    - UK first EU government to back US scheme
    - Spain proposes similar scheme within the EU

    See major updates on 27 February and 3 March 2003:
    1.
    US Customs to have direct access to EU airline reservation databases
    2.
    EU Working Party on data protection findings on proposal
    3.
    see also (3.3.03):EU data protection chair calls for US access to passenger details to be postponed: Report

    Filed 20.2.02

    The European Commission has caved in to US demands that all airlines flying from the EU have to provide passenger details from 5 March 2003. The "deal" was agreed between the US Deputy Customs Commissioner, Douglas Browning and Commission officials on Wednesday 19 February. A Commission official said that: "We think that assurances given by the USA are sufficient on law".

    This is a so-called "transitional system" which at some point in the future will be replaced by formal legislation.


    Story filed on 13.2.02


    The USA has told the European Commission that that all transatlantic carriers (ships and planes) from the EU provide full passenger lists to them prior to departure or face hefty fines by the end of February. There will be a meeting between Commission officials and US Customs agents (who now come under the US Department for Homeland Security) next week. However, the collection and exchange of such data by EU companies is not possible under the EC Directive on data protection.
    The USA does not have a data protection law. Moreover, as negotiations over an US-Europol agreement on mutual assistance in judicial matters has shown, the USA has no intention of introducing such a law nor does it know how many of its agencies have access to personal data. Personal details on passengers could be passed to a myriad of agencies in the USA for other surveillance purposes and further exchanged with other countries.
    On 4 January the US Department of Justice, Immigration and Naturalisation Service, published a new rule on "Manifest Requirements Under Section 231 of the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Act of 2002." This:
    "requires the submission of arrival and departure manifests electronically in advance of an aircraft or vessel's arrival in or departure from the United States"
    The penalty for failure to comply is:
    "$1,000 per violation.. on a carrier for each person for whom an accurate and full manifest is not submitted"
    The list must also include crew members and "any other occupants transported".
    In order to put this new measure into practice the USA is extending APIS (Advance Passenger Information System) currently operated by two governments - Australia and New Zealand. The information to be supplied must cover: complete name, date of birth, citizenship, sex, passport number and country of issuance, country of residence, alien registration (where applicable), address while in the USA, and:
    "other such information as the Attorney General determines is necessary for the identification of persons transported, for the enforcement of immigration laws, and to protect public safety and national security"
    The US Attorney General has already decided that the data provided should include adding a "Passenger Name Record (PNR) locator or a unique identifier or reservation number".
    Passenger manifests must be sent to the USA authorities:
    "no later than 15 minutes after the flight departs.. this will allow the Service to check the manifest against the appropriate security databases prior to arrival"
    Airlines flying out of the USA have to supply passenger manifests 15 minutes before the departure of the flight to allow vetting by security agencies - this is how the Australian APIS system works so it might expected in the future that the USA will make similar demands on EU airlines so that suspected "security" risks can be refused boarding to the plane.
    Shipping companies have to submit a manifest not less than 96 hours before arrival in USA or 24 hours if the journey is short.
    Personal data on passengers will be exchanged in a standard format known as: the UN Electronic Data Interchange for Administration (EDIFACT) and:
    "the governments of Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom all support the conversion to APIS UN EDIFACT format in an effort to establish worldwide format standard for the electronic transmission of arrival and departure manifests"
    This is one of a whole series of demands that have been made on the EU by the USA in the name of their "war on terrorism." For example see: EU member state by-pass Commission to give US access to containers at ports
    The UK is cited as being in favour of a world-wide APIS system but when the Home Secretary suggested it .. there were fierce objections by the airlines and civil liberties groups, see: UK government demanding that airlines collect personal data on every passenger
    In the Council of the European Union's Working Party on Frontiers the Spanish delegation are pushing a proposal along similar lines should be introduced within the EU to combat "terrorism and illegal immigration". In a document dated 9 January 2003 Spain proposes that data on passengers is "conveyed immediately to the border control authorities in the Member State of destination, this would ensure that a period of time is available to perform a detailed analysis, on the basis of each specific situation or of each passenger's country of departure." (doc no: 5174/03)
    Tony Bunyan, Statewatch, editor comments:
    "The EU has to decide whether it is going to yet again be bounced into a hasty, unscrutinised, decision or whether it is going to ensure that such a proposal is properly considered by national and European parliaments and civil society. It is extremely difficult to see how such a proposal could comply with the EU Data Protection Directive and the European Convention on Human Rights when the USA has no data protection laws and its Attorney General has the powers to demand additional information at will.
    It is extraordinary that the USA have found the legislative time to pass two extensive anti-terrorist measures - the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Act - and is planning a third, the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, yet consistently refuses to consider a law meeting basic standards of privacy and data protection. It is time the EU stood up for peoples' rights and democratic decision-making"

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    24-12-2018 @ 04:38 PM
    Posts
    1,215
    If you wish to take a closer look at the section in the act here is a link

    http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/feb/USAPIS.doc

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat
    Bexar County Stud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    09-02-2013 @ 08:22 PM
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowspole View Post
    So why be hypocritical now?
    What are on about?

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat
    rawlins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    02-10-2019 @ 11:46 AM
    Posts
    2,942
    It's definately something that is required at check-in these days for anybody that is not American... When I travel to work there I have to give the full address of the hotel that I'm staying at on the first night...

    I suppose a travel agent is responsible for providing these details also....

    That is just your country and one of the measures it needs to edge closer towards a police state...

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat
    Gallowspole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    2,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowspole View Post
    So why be hypocritical now?
    What are on about?
    You implied that anybody has the right (unless brought up in a Stalinist country) to be a **** with respect to other peoples' private feelings/beliefs/life. Your government is now being a **** to you. Suck it up and stop your moaning.

  12. #12
    Not an expat
    Fabian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Online
    04-09-2017 @ 09:31 PM
    Location
    Hamburg, cold dark Germany
    Posts
    5,381
    As already said above, it's not the airline being nosy but the US government so complain about them.

  13. #13
    Member
    zipcode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    04-12-2019 @ 06:24 AM
    Posts
    890
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud View Post
    I'm visiting my home in the US with my Thai GF, who is a teacher and is most certainly not one of Thailand's "night girls."

    Obtaining a visa at the embassy was a cinch, in fact they granted her a 10 year multiple entry.

    Here it is just a few days before we leave, and I get a frantic phone call from our travel agent, who relays to us our airline's demand that we furnish them an address and phone number of where we are staying in the US.

    I've never heard of this kind of thing before, and I'm feeling a little pissed off about it. Having already gotten a visa from my government, who are the airlines to be demanding private information?

    We will gladly produce such information to US customs officials if they ask for it on arrival. But to the airlines?

    Is this a common procedure? What ya think?

    And remember to change into fresh, clean underwear before getting off the plane; especially your thai gf. This way, the cavity search will be less embarrassing.


    Just kidding!

    Actually, the best advice I can give is try to relax. The border officials are keeping an eye for people who are nervous (or overly confident). Just look like any typical long-suffering married couple getting off a lengthy flight.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    8,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud View Post
    that we furnish them an address and phone number of where we are staying in the US.
    I couldn't remember my brother's address so I just gave them the address of where I grew up at. 40 some years ago.

    It's just silly paperwork.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat
    Bexar County Stud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    09-02-2013 @ 08:22 PM
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowspole View Post
    You implied that anybody has the right (unless brought up in a Stalinist country) to be a **** with respect to other peoples' private feelings/beliefs/life. Your government is now being a **** to you.
    Cross-thread stalker alert.

    Comparing your dim belief that you have the right to punch out street preachers, or anyone else who violates your fragile and confused sense of personal space with an airline asking for private information from their customers-that's a bit weird and strained even for you.

    Can you possibly be anymore obtuse? Now stop trying to derail this thread with your stalker-ish obsession and let the adults get on with trying to help each other, OK?

  16. #16
    The Dentist English Noodles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Burning Down a Pikey Caravan
    Posts
    17,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud
    let the adults get on with trying to help each other, OK?
    Help with what exactly? Nothing here to help with. The airline wants an address and contact number in the states, big fucking deal, get over it studly.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat
    madjbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    15-07-2015 @ 01:49 AM
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,529
    ^^ Something just doesnt add up with your story, I think you must be a liar.

  18. #18
    My kind of town
    chitown's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,520
    tell them 1313 Mockingbird Lane and phone number 12345567

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat
    Bexar County Stud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    09-02-2013 @ 08:22 PM
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by English Noodles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bexar County Stud
    let the adults get on with trying to help each other, OK?
    Help with what exactly? Nothing here to help with.
    Actually, I'll be the judge of that. I appreciate the many folks who took the time to leave intelligent comments and information.

    As for the rest, I'm flattered that apparently I'm the center of your universe, but perhaps you should find a new hobby.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •