Do Thais have a communication problem ?

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Originally Posted by Texpat

Japs can't say "no."
They'll talk/walk around the world to avoid it.

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Thais are quite good at this, too.

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Originally Posted by Texpat

Very unforgiving sometimes, even when you merely apply the incorrect tone.

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Unfortunately, the tone determines the meaning.
It is very funny to listen to farangs who are learning Thai and are entirely oblivious to just how far off their speech is.
I still get it wrong after many years.

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

I think some of these points are invalid if we look deeper into the issue. The implication of Butterfly's statements seem to suggest languages are static in structure and some languages can convey complex thought while others can't, because the languages themselves are unfit for the purpose.

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I never made the assumptions that languages were static, you are reading something I didn't say. They are at any given point in time but definitely not by nature. Thai will evolve, yet slowly, but today at this stage, it's nothing more than a "limited" language that forces the brain into "limited" skills. Things will change as THE NEED to communicate more change. Without that need for more communication, any language is bound to be stagnant or even die a slow death.

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

I disagree with this - every single language adapts with its users to fit the reality around them.

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agree, but it's actually more complex than that, language itself at a certain stage of complexity will also "incite" a "better" description of the reality, almost feeding onto itself for more accurate words and articulation of the reality.

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

If you look at the structure of Chinese, it is in many ways not that different from Thai. The tone features, the monosyllabic nature of most words, the focus on verbs rather than nouns, the lack of inclinations for plural and time aspects.

Yet, the Chinese civilization was in many ways superior to European civilization up until the era of industrialization and mass production which propelled some European states into world dominating powers and dragged the rest along with them.

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I was afraid someone would quote the Chinese as a counter example, yes agree with you here, but wasn't Ancient Chinese a very complex language, which has little to do with the current one ? Wasn't it also simplified for the masses ? it's clear that ancient Chinese philosophers must have had an incentive to communicate and "master" their language. It's also possible that the elite and the Chinese philosophers loved to communicate, hence forcing them to use their brain more often to "explain" their reality.

This is not the case with the Thais, they just don't communicate, may it be cultural (strong argument) or because of language limits (weak argument).

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Language itself has advanced with people's thought processes - the more evolved people are mentally, and the more complex the reality they experience around them, the more they are in need of a tool to navigate this reality - so they use the language to its limits, and push it further.

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Agree, but again see my explanation above, it's a reciprocal process, incentive to communicate will lead to more communication and to a more sophisticated language to describe reality. Chicken ? Egg ?

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

I don't know if you realize that the bulk of people living in France before the Roman empire spoke mostly Germanic and Celtic languages. Imagine the massive borrowing of Latin words that must have caused the gradual eradication of these languages and led to creating French as we know it today - a Romance language, Latin based.

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French is a latin language as much as Spanish and Italian, no doubt about that. And before French became French, there were only local dialects, and yes Latin (a complex structured language) is the fundation of all Latin languages (French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese etc...).

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

When somebody intelligent enough to formulate highly abstract and complex ideas comes into this world - being both a product of his/her genes, and his her upbringing and environment, he or she will bend language and extend it in order to explain these things. If the starting language has a limited vocabulary, the genius will be able to either explain sufficiently with existing vocabulary, or invent new words to define those new ideas or concepts if there is a need.

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Also agree, but you are missing the point. It's not about pushing the limits, but about incentives to push the limits. The genius has this "natural" incentive, but he is an exception. If he lives in an environment that doesn't help communication or him to push his limits, then it's not going to help, is it ?

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

The thoughts of these philosophers will expand your mind - not only because they show a new angle on things, but also because the study of them forces you to concentrate your mental skills. This mind expansion is very difficult to achieve without a rigidly defined terminological system.

The philosophers realized this - the smarter ones could see that all languages, German or French being no exceptions, carry a large potential for misunderstandings, as the associations any individual will experience upon reading or hearing a word, often differ from the associations of another individual.

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Also agree, that's what rethoric and articulation is all about, hence there is a very fine line between manipulation and "mastering" a language, as the latter will better vehicule your thoughts, and therefore your agenda.

TIT means Thick Idiotic Thais

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Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

TIT means Thick Idiotic Thais

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You've been hanging around tsicar to much....;) find an attitude there makes you less angry....

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Originally Posted by Dalton

You've been hanging around tsicar to much.... find an attitude there makes you less angry....

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To be honest Dalton I did take your advice regarding my attitude to Thais but after a drive to Korat the other day I came back somewhat stressed. I'll try harder next time but it will be hard.

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Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

but after a drive to Korat the other day I came back somewhat stressed

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How many days did that take you? :)

Sometimes my wifes mobile phone doesnt work properly.

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Originally Posted by stroller

Yes, Thai culture is different from what you were brought up with.

Better learn about it, or spend the rest of your stay being a miserable twat and feeling superior - oh, hang on, I guess that's exactly what some have come here for.:)

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First sensible thing i have read from you, have a green troll, i mean stroll, i mean stroller.

Noodles.

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Originally Posted by stroller

Yes, Thai culture is different from what you were brought up with.

Better learn about it, or spend the rest of your stay being a miserable twat and feeling superior - oh, hang on, I guess that's exactly what some have come here for.:)

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I am surprised there have not been more objections to this post.

It's a perfectly reasonable topic that baffles many of us, I would love to know why when I call my mates wife to ask her to speak to the moto taxi and take me to the nearest dentist - they are talking for a near THREE minutes - I shit you not.

I should have just said "More fun" or whatever it is in Thai and he could just say "Yeezip" or however much it is - job done, but it's not alwatys that simple.

My maid is great though, she just shuts the fuck up and does a real good job cleaning my room and if it is really Sokkapok I give her 100 baht tip.

Anyway - Stroller, don't mistake curiosity as a racist put down, some of us just want an easy life.

^Don't we have a thread about foreigners slipping in some one thai words and how silly that sounds?