Your handy cut out and keep guide to paying taxes in Thailand

**Pragmatic** · 16-10-2024, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by malmomike77

I cannot envisage how uk income which is taxed, say private pension income could ever yield a tax obligation under double taxation.

I'm the same. I can't see it working. What I get from the UK government in benefits is tax free and what private and government pension I get is already taxed. Nah it's fcuking crazy.

**Edmond** · 16-10-2024, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I'm the same. I can't see it working. What I get from the UK government in benefits is tax free and what private and government pension I get is already taxed. Nah it's fcuking crazy.

If it's needed for annual extensions just slip the immigration officer 500 baht, P.

**taxexile** · 16-10-2024, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by malmomike77

I cannot envisage how uk income which is taxed, say private pension income could ever yield a tax obligation under double taxation.

if any income/monies brought into thailand have already been taxed in the UK, then further tax will not need to be paid in thailand.

that part is quite clear.

the problems arise with exactly what paperwork will be required by the thais to prove that tax has been paid, HMRC are notoriously slow in providing paperwork, dealing with them is done mostly online, and setting up an online account is not so easy if you are out of the country. some income streams are taxed at source and some are not, it is up to the recipient to self assess and declare income to HMRC if it is thought to be taxable, failing to do so will eventually lead to lengthy investigations and fines.

... for those whose income does not reach the UK tax threshold, but if brought into thailand, it would seem that the thais will tax it.

this system looks like a door into world of confusion, frustration, anger and pain for expats as it is bound to be interpreted differently by each and every thai immigration/tax department officer as they sit behind their government issued desks that are already groaning from the weight of paperwork stacked up on them.

....... and thats before we start to question the fairness of the fact that if foreigners are paying tax, then they should be entitled to rights and benefits from the thai government, such as health cover, exemption from thai dual pricing and high visa extension fees.

it's two tier thailand, as they say in the UK.

**david44** · 16-10-2024, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by taxexile

high visa extension fees

yep 5 baht a day or 1900 a year, outrageous. the rest I agree

**taxexile** · 16-10-2024, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by david44

yep 5 baht a day or 1900 a year, outrageous. the rest I agree

doesnt matter how much it is, it should be tax deductable.

**cyrille** · 16-10-2024, 05:55 PM

I see the whole thing as a 'moving towards...' thing.

Comparable to the UK Conservative party regaining a shred of credibility in my life time.

**Pragmatic** · 16-10-2024, 06:06 PM

I bring my monies into 'Ting Tong Land' using a joint UK bank account depositing into my wife's Thai bank. Will that cause a problem? Not that anyone knows for sure.

**harrybarracuda** · 16-10-2024, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I bring my monies into 'Ting Tong Land' using a joint UK bank account depositing into my wife's Thai bank. Will that cause a problem? Not that anyone knows for sure.

They will see her as receiving income from overseas.

So it would be her problem.

**Stumpy** · 16-10-2024, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Tax Advisers are having a fucking field day winding people up - it's a great way to generate business.

I think for most it's a wait and see exercise.

I suspect they are, fear and confusion draws more clients.

I haven't done any research and won't because virtually every pie in the sky program they launch is never well thought out and usually gets scrapped or the rules change on the fly or it's put on hold etc.

To Tax's point, if an expat is required to pay taxes on money they are bringing into to basically help their economy, then they should have fully available benefits which will not happen.

**Edmond** · 16-10-2024, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Stumpy

I haven't done any research and won't because virtually every pie in the sky program they launch is never well thought out and usually gets scrapped or the rules change on the fly or it's put on hold etc.

Yup. Every few years there's a Sky Is Falling new rule about to be implemented.

As soon as anything major does get implemented, a way around it pops up almost immediately, it might just cost a bit more.

**cyrille** · 16-10-2024, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

They will see her as receiving income from overseas.

So it would be her problem.

No info about prag's visa status, so who knows.

Any income requirements related to his visa will be based on an account in his name, not in his wife's name.

And I agree Mao. This will just be another hurdle in the Crufts obedience test.

**taxexile** · 16-10-2024, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by cyrille

No info about prag's visa status, so who knows.

Any income requirements related to his visa will be based on an account in his name, not in his wife's name.

And I agree Mao. This will just be another hurdle in the Crufts obedience test.

if the govt. wanted to they could require that banks report details of all foreign deposits to the finance department. a few clicks of a mouse could easily trawl records and retrieve this info.

governments worldwide are becoming wise to the ease with which money can be quietly and anonymously moved around the world these days in order to avoid being taxed and the loopholes that facilitate it are rapidly being closed.

buying gold and diamonds, high value and easily carried and sold are a possible workaround.

**Stumpy** · 17-10-2024, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by taxexile

buying gold

First thing my wife mentioned. Buy some ingots of gold, make it look like jewelry and then sell when you arrive or need the money. Diamonds are much harder to sell due to the varying classifications of each for quality.

There will always be a work around so let them go on with their plan. I give the entire scheme about a 5% chance of evening being launched. Of course, the ones that have resources to just pack up and leave will if it becomes a huge issue for them.

**harrybarracuda** · 17-10-2024, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by cyrille

No info about prag's visa status, so who knows.

What does his visa status have to do with it? It's going into her bank account.

The only question is if she's in Thailand 180+ days.

**harrybarracuda** · 17-10-2024, 08:50 AM

Couple of things.

This:

The Common Reporting Standard (CRS) is a global standard that requires financial institutions to automatically exchange financial account information with tax authorities to help prevent tax evasion:

Purpose

The CRS was developed by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in 2014 to combat tax evasion.

How it works

Financial institutions collect and report information on customers' financial accounts, including whether they are tax residents of a particular country. This information is then exchanged with the tax authorities of the countries where the customers are tax residents.

Jurisdictions

More than 100 jurisdictions have adopted the CRS, including major financial centers like Hong Kong, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Dubai.

Impact

The CRS impacts many functions within financial institutions, including client onboarding, anti-money laundering (AML), documentation management, and tax reporting.

Penalties

Clients who don't provide the required documents may be declared "undocumented" and face sanctions under local law.

And this:

Thailand pledged to meet global tax reporting norms by joining the Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information for Tax Purposes in 2017. The nation fully embraced the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) by 1 January 2022, and commenced its first automatic exchange of information (AEOI) in 2023. This action marks a major step in Thailand’s efforts to enhance tax transparency and combat tax evasion, aligning with international initiatives spearheaded by the OECD.

**harrybarracuda** · 17-10-2024, 08:55 AM

And in case you were wondering:

Accounts Subject to CRS Reporting

Bank accounts
Custodial arrangements
Investment entities and platforms
Insurance products with investment aspects

Details Automatically Reported

Name
Address
Tax identification number
Account balance or value
Financial activity, including withdrawals and deposits

Apparently this does include ATM withdrawals.

**tomcat** · 17-10-2024, 09:08 AM

...looks like this proposed "tax on foreign income" thing has been cleared up...thanks...

**Mendip** · 17-10-2024, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Apparently this does include ATM withdrawals.

What about business accounts?

Do you think the CRS has access to business accounts?

**harrybarracuda** · 17-10-2024, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mendip

What about business accounts?

Do you think the CRS has access to business accounts?

It's got a name so I suppose so.

**Shutree** · 17-10-2024, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I bring my monies into 'Ting Tong Land' using a joint UK bank account depositing into my wife's Thai bank. Will that cause a problem? Not that anyone knows for sure.

I cannot find the written word on this, so it needs verification.
I was told that a Thai citizen can receive gifts up to Baht 10M in a year. Tax free. They must be gifts with no conditions attached.
If your wife bought a car, for example, then registered it in your name, that would not qualify as a 'gift' to her. Similarly if she transfers money from her account to yours.
If this information is correct I guess it will not take long for this loophole to be closed. Meanwhile, I am sending her indoors some gifts and we'll see what happens.

**Stumpy** · 17-10-2024, 10:46 AM

Our plan has always been transfer monies from our joint acct in the US to my wife's acct here and she pulls out cash as required or as i want or need. I have never wired monies directly to my acct. Appears this will be another avenue to avoid the scheme.

One can only laugh.

**taxexile** · 17-10-2024, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stumpy

Our plan has always been transfer monies from our joint acct in the US to my wife's acct here and she pulls out cash as required or as i want or need. I have never wired monies directly to my acct. Appears this will be another avenue to avoid the scheme.

One can only laugh.

when necessary for a big ticket item, thats exactly what we do, from the uk.

we spend about 6 months a year here, 2 x 3months, and usually bring enough hard cash for day to day spending, which is exchanged at super rich as and when necessary. they have never once asked to see a passport, so the transaction is anonymous and there are also occasional atm withdrawals from my thai bank account to keep the account live should i ever want to re apply for my retirement visa.

i find it hard to believe that they could implement this scheme successfully, other than by directly taxing inward bank deposits and then putting the onus on the recipient to claim the tax back by providing proof that tax has already been paid in the source country.

with tax years starting at different dates around the world, with money transfers being made at different dates and with the different formats of paperwork in each country, it would be pretty much impossible to implement, to say nothing of the resentment felt by expats, many of whom would just up sticks and move to a more welcoming host country, and there are plenty of those.

**Bonecollector** · 17-10-2024, 02:04 PM

Is there a personal allowance before you start to pay tax on foreign earned income? Can you make deductions for private healthcare costs? If these two are true to foreign income as they are for domestic income, then, if you live frugally, you could get away with paying very little tax. All holidays abroad can be paid for using a foreign card. You might also be able to deduct for pension plans and care of an elderly parent or parent in law even.

Correct me if I am wrong but you and your spouse, permitting she doesn't file, gets 120K tax free. Add 30K each for health insurance. If you keep your income stream below 480K a year, you would only pay 5% on 300k at 15K tax a year.

Probably slightly wrong on this but I am sure the tax doesn't end up being very much unless your importing millions of untaxed foreign income a year.

If you are saving money somewhere, probably cheaper to save it in a country where you don't get taxed as a foreigner and then bring it to Thailand to be taxed.

Just a thought, discuss and amend.

**david44** · 17-10-2024, 02:32 PM

Dull stuff but section 47 show various allowances

Section 47 For the assessable income under Section 40, after deduction of expenses under Section 42 bis - 46, the following allowances may be further deducted in order to relieve tax burden:

(1) Allowances for:
(a) the taxpayer, 30,000 Baht;
(b) the taxpayer’s spouse, 30,000 Baht;
(c) legitimate or adopted children of the taxpayer, including legitimate children of the taxpayer’s spouse:
(1) 15,000 Baht for each child born in or before B.E. 2522 or adopted before B.E. 2522 or
(2) 15,000 Baht for each child born after B.E. 2522 or adopted in or after B.E. 2522, but not exceeding 3 children in total.
In a case where a taxpayer has children both under (1) and (2), he shall first deduct allowance for the children under (1), followed by the children under (2). Except where the taxpayer has 3 or more living children under (1), he shall not deduct allowances for children under (2). If he has less than 3 children under (1), he may deduct allowances for the children under (2); however, the total number of children shall not exceed 3.
In counting the number of children, only living children may be counted in the order of their ages. The counting shall also include those ineligible for deduction of allowance.
Child allowance shall be deducted only if the child is less than 25 years old and is still studying in a university or an equivalent educational institution or is a minor and an adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent person, and is under the taxpayer’s maintenance and support. However, no allowance shall be deducted for a child who has, during the tax year concerned, assessable income of 15,000 Baht or more which does not fall under Section 42.
Child allowance is deductible whether or not the ground for such allowance existed throughout the whole tax year. In a case of an adopted child, only a foster parent can deduct the allowance .
(d) Insurance premiums paid by the taxpayer during the tax year for the taxpayer’s life insurance policy shall be deducted in an amount actually paid but not exceeding 10,000 Baht, only in the case where the life insurance policy has a duration of 10 years or more and issued by an insurer carrying on business of life insurance in Thailand; 15
15M.R.No.126 Clause 2 (61)In a case where the taxpayer’s spouse carries life insurance policy and their marital status exists throughout tax year, the spouse shall be entitled to deduct allowance in an amount specified in paragraph 1.
(e) (Repealed by E.A.R.C. (No.16) B.E. 2534 S.8)
(f) the taxpayer’s child eligible under (c) who is still studying at a public educational institution, an educational institution under the law governing private educational institutions, or a private school under the law governing private school; additional education allowance of 2,000 Baht shall be deducted for each child.
(g) Contribution made by an employee to a provident fund in accordance with the rules, procedures and conditions prescribed by a Ministerial Regulation under Section 65 Ter (2) in an amount actually paid, but not exceeding 10,000 Baht.
In a case where the taxpayer’s spouse pays a contribution to a provident fund under Paragraph 1 and their marital status exists throughout the tax year, the spouse is entitled to deduct the allowance in an amount specified in Paragraph 1.
(h) Interest paid by the taxpayer to a bank or any other financial institution, a life insurance company, a cooperative or his employer, on loan granted to him for buying, hire-purchasing or constructing a residential building, where such building is mortgaged as collateral for the loan, in an amount actually paid but not exceeding 10,000 Baht; subject to the rules and procedures prescribed by the Director-General with the approval of the Minister and published in the Government Gazette. The aforesaid building includes land. 16
16N.RD. Re: Evidence of Deduction of Allowance for Interest on Loan. N.DG.IT.No.86(i) Contribution made by the taxpayer to the social security fund under the law governing social security in an amount actually paid.
In a case where the taxpayer’s spouse pays a contribution to a social security fund under Paragraph 1 and their marital status exists throughout the tax year, the spouse is entitled to deduct the allowance in an amount specified in Paragraph 1.
(2) Where both husband and wife have income and their marital status exists throughout the tax year, the total allowance under (1) (a) and (b) shall be 60,000 Baht. If their marital status does not exist throughout the tax year, each may separately deduct an allowance under (1) (a) and for the allowance deducted under (c), (f) and (g), each may separately deduct, for each case, one half of the allowance in accordance with the prescribed rules.
(3) In the case where the taxpayer is not a resident of Thailand, the allowance under (1) (b) (c) and (f) shall be deductible only for the spouse and child who are residents of Thailand.
(4) In the case where the taxpayer dies during the tax year, the allowance shall be deductible as if the deceased were alive throughout the tax year in which he dies.
(5) In the case where the taxpayer is an undivided estate, the allowance of 30,000 Baht shall be deducted.
(6) In the case where the taxpayer is a non-registered ordinary partnership or non-juristic body of persons, the allowance shall be deductible under (1) (a) for each partner or person who is a resident of Thailand but shall not exceed 60,000 Baht in total.
(7) After the deduction of the allowances under (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), or (6), the taxpayer may further deduct the following donation allowance in an amount actually donated but not exceeding 10 per cent of the remaining amount after the deduction of expenses and allowances:
(a) money donated to public hospitals and educational institutions,
(b) money donated to charity organizations, hospitals or educational institutions as prescribed by the Minister and published in the Royal Gazette.17
17R.D.No.317 Notification of the Ministry of Finance on Income Tax and Value Added Tax. Re: Criteria for Consideration and Announcement of Organizations, Public Charitable Institutions, Clinics and Educational Institutions under Section 47 (7) (b) of the Revenue Code and Section 3 (4) (b) of the Royal Decree under the Revenue Code Regarding Value Added Tax Exemption (No.239), B.E. 2534 (1991) as Amended by the Royal Decree Issued under the Revenue Code Regarding Value Added Tax Exemption (No.254), B.E.2535 (1992)Section 47 Bis A taxpayer deriving income under Section 40 (4) (b) from a company or juristic partnership established under the Thai law shall receive a tax credit. The amount of tax credit is calculated by multiplying dividend or share of profit received with the income tax rate which is divided by the difference between 100 and the said income tax rate of the paying company or juristic partnership. In the case where the paying company or juristic partnership is subject to many income tax rates, it shall clearly specify the income tax rate of the business from which the payment is made in the certificate of withholding tax deduction.18
18N.DG.IT.No.62The said tax credit under paragraph 1 shall be included as assessable income and calculated the income tax in accordance with Section 48. Then the said tax credit shall be deducted from the total amount of tax payable. If the tax credit is less than the tax payable, the taxpayer shall pay the difference, if more, he shall be entitled to a refund.

The provisions of Paragraphs 1 and 2 shall not apply to a taxpayer who is not domiciled in Thailand and is not a resident of Thailand.
In the case where a company or juristic partnership paying dividends declares in the withholding tax certificate the information mentioned in paragraph 1 incorrectly and thereby the computed credit exceeds the amount that the taxpayer is entitled to, the payer of income shall be jointly liable with the recipient of income in an amount over-credited or underpaid. And if the payer or taxpayer fails to pay the amount within 7 days from the date of receiving a written notice from the assessment official, such amount shall be deemed tax arrears. If the assessment official finds out that the calculated tax credit is less than the amount receivable by the taxpayer, the taxpayer shall be informed of the right for refund under the law.

Source
Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site)

**harrybarracuda** · 17-10-2024, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stumpy

Our plan has always been transfer monies from our joint acct in the US to my wife's acct here and she pulls out cash as required or as i want or need. I have never wired monies directly to my acct. Appears this will be another avenue to avoid the scheme.

One can only laugh.

That would have been perfectly fine - up to this year.

That's precisely the loophole they've closed: In the past you could earn money one year and transfer it the next without it being taxed (the change was primarily aimed at Thais).

No more.

The bottom line is that it's up to you if you want to evade taxes. Just be aware that if you do, and they find out down the line, not only can they demand it all backdated, but you're liable for a fine too.

I don't think there are too many countries where "I didn't know the law" is a viable defence.

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