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  1. #1
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    What do you like about an open plan Bar layout?

    Well, what started out as a man cave for me is turning into quite a large Restaurant/ bar/ Music Venue/ Sports Arena and Events Location but it will be only successful if we create somewhere people want to come.

    Personally I like open bars without air conditioning but I am aware many potential patrons like to dine in clean room air-conditioned areas.

    Question number 1:

    Do you prefer to dine in an air-conditioned environment?

    Question number 2

    Does a bar need to have a pool table? I think not as they are expensive to maintain and take up a lot of room.

    Question number 3

    Does live music or karaoke draw you to a bar or are music videos your preference?

    Question number 4.

    If a bar has a swimming pool do you need to shower before and or after a swim?

    Question number 5.

    Does a bar need to offer exotic drink cocktails on their drink menu?

    Thanks in advance for your response and opinions.

  2. #2
    5 4 Knoll
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    This is gripping stuff and sure fire attraction for those tired of carnal pleasure but not quite prepped for self flogulasian or the monkhood

    A few quay posers to add for when the fleet's in

    1 How low is the bar?

    2 Will there be inflatable Candy?

    3 Will it be on the bucket list?

    4 Will any punters who pass on in situ get pie in the sky when they die?

    5 Is it for Sanity or a similar good CLAUS?
    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    I just want the chance to use a bigger porridge bowl.

  3. #3
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david44 View Post
    This is gripping stuff and sure fire attraction for those tired of carnal pleasure but not quite prepped for self flogulasian or the monkhood

    A few quay posers to add for when the fleet's in

    1 How low is the bar?

    2 Will there be inflatable Candy?

    3 Will it be on the bucket list?

    4 Will any punters who pass on in situ get pie in the sky when they die?

    5 Is it for Sanity or a similar good CLAUS?
    Thanks for your response Rubber and the main bar seating is about 15 metres long.

    There will be blow-ups but only after working time has elapsed.

    Only punters who die from something else other than my wife's cooking or overdoing it on the tennis court will remain in situ.

    I am sick of working and hope this is my last foolish Folly before I go to the Bucket Pie in the sky.

  4. #4
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    Mendip's Avatar
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    LT...

    1) Even where a choice is offered I will always dine outside in the fresh air, not in the aircon area.

    2) A pool table is a nice option although not a reason for me to go to a bar.

    3) If the live music is too loud to talk I would go elsewhere. If karaoke is on I would go to another street where it can't be heard.

    4) Personally I wouldn't swim in a pool bar. It will be hard to keep clean with everyone pissing in it and I think you could open yourself up for legal action if there was an accident. Thai kids can rarely swim, for one. I wouldn't offer a pool with a bar.

    5) Maybe some like exotic cocktails but for me a few beers or cider on draught is the main attraction.


    My criteria for bar is an open front so you can watch the street life going on and a bar you can sit at or lean on. I also like those small high tables that you sit at on a bar stool. I hate to sit down at a proper table in a bar and only do so if the wife insists on eating at a table. I prefer to eat up at the bar.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Question number 1:

    Do you prefer to dine in an air-conditioned environment?
    Definitely air-con. Sitting down to a meal in a controlled environment is a whole different story to being out in the open with whatever insects decide to drop in to say hi, it's about to get seriously hot again any day now, and then there's the air pollution that's becoming more regular here of late. Maybe put some tables and chairs by the pool for foreigners that want to show how Thai they are, Pool of Siam restaurant does that well as a guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Question number 2

    Does a bar need to have a pool table? I think not as they are expensive to maintain and take up a lot of room.
    Depends what sort of a bar it's going to be and who the target customer base is. More info required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Question number 3

    Does live music or karaoke draw you to a bar or are music videos your preference?
    Live music can work, but the band has to be good and they have to know they're there to provide background music unless you've booked an act that are so well known that people have actually turned up just to see them. There's not much worse than having a drink and banter with friends then some fucking terrible band comes on and starts slaughtering classics at a volume that makes conversation impossible, check-bin and see you again never. I'd rate the typical Thai cover band doing the pub and club circuit around this town at not more than 3.5 out of 10, and if we go somewhere like the Hardrock to listen to a real band they'll probably be Filipino.

    Karaoke is a definite no for me, even in the rare event that someone can actually sing it's simply not worth the risk of hanging around to find out. Cannot go wrong with music videos, you control the genre and volume to suit the customer base at any given time and requests are easily provided. Route CC bar use to do that so well, I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember the owners name who passed from cancer right now but his bar was a regular meeting point because of (among other things) the excellent music vids, and that he'd always come over to our table and say "how's the music folks, can I put anything on you'd prefer to hear?". The music is something you're going to have to get right, it may not attract many customers but it will sure as hell stop them returning if it's annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Question number 4.

    If a bar has a swimming pool do you need to shower before and or after a swim?
    Absolutely, but how many people go to a bar to swim? Couldn't count the times I've been to Aquadeymie over so many years who have a sparkling clean and inviting pool (with showers available before and after) and have probably seen the sum total of 10 people use it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Question number 5.

    Does a bar need to offer exotic drink cocktails on their drink menu?
    IMO no. I mean, how many times have you been in a local bar and seen someone order a Manhattan or a Martini? I'd concentrate more on having a wider choice of things like Scotch and Vodka than the competitors, along with making sure you always had cold beer.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat armstrong's Avatar
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    1. I would always choose to sit outside. I spend most of my working life inside so when I'm out I want to be out out.
    2. No, but if you did you might attract more customers who stay longer. Pool league etc.
    3. Live music or karaoke would put me off.
    4. No one swims at a bar unless you employ some young ladies to frolic.
    5. No, but a selection of fruit smoothies and iced coffees is always good.
    I'd like to see what morning looks like
    Don't wanna drink pint after pint
    I wanna wake up without feeling sick
    But I can't cuz I'm a drug-abusing alcoholic

  7. #7
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    My 2 cents:

    1. I'd like to have both options: A/C and outdoor. If it was a special night and I took the time to put makeup & a nice dress on, I don't want my makeup to melt and I don't want my skirt to be blown away and have a "Marilyn Monroe moment". Also it's hard to walk on grass in heels. Pls have some concrete steps for the ladies in heels!

    2. Pool table not necessary for me

    3. Music - doesn't have to be a live band. I think a good band would be hard to pay/ maintain, especially if you're starting out. Just have nice music or maybe a jukebox so clients have a choice?

    4. Pool - nope, wouldn't swim in it. Don't want to swim in other people's drunken bodily fluids. And agree with someone (?) that it might cause potential accidents.

    5. Exotic drinks/ cocktails - as a girl, it's a strong yes! Sometimes I drink beer but sometimes I like to drink cocktails. In my younger days, it tickled my fancy to try those with exotic names like "s*x on the beach" and "first time", as well as more generic ones like mojito, tequila sunrise or caipirinha. I don't frequent bars or clubs now, but I went to them before in my younger days, usually with girl-friends. You don't have to offer 20 types of cocktails, but maybe 5 is OK?

    It also depends on your intended clients and their age range. Do you intend to go for the older, more mature and classier crowd (where ladies can wear a nice dress & heels), or is it more of a casual pub, fish & chips type of thing? Do you also intend to attract foreign backpackers, the Chinese crowd & the Indian crowd, the Russians, etc ?

    Decisions, decisions.. Good luck!

  8. #8
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    LT...

    1) Even where a choice is offered I will always dine outside in the fresh air, not in the aircon area.

    2) A pool table is a nice option although not a reason for me to go to a bar.

    3) If the live music is too loud to talk I would go elsewhere. If karaoke is on I would go to another street where it can't be heard.

    4) Personally I wouldn't swim in a pool bar. It will be hard to keep clean with everyone pissing in it and I think you could open yourself up for legal action if there was an accident. Thai kids can rarely swim, for one. I wouldn't offer a pool with a bar.

    5) Maybe some like exotic cocktails but for me a few beers or cider on draught is the main attraction.


    My criteria for bar is an open front so you can watch the street life going on and a bar you can sit at or lean on. I also like those small high tables that you sit at on a bar stool. I hate to sit down at a proper table in a bar and only do so if the wife insists on eating at a table. I prefer to eat up at the bar.
    Thank you for your response Mendy.

    I also like to sit outside but prefer to eat in a proper clean air conditioned environment if on offer.

    Re: Pool Table, I have always advised people not to have one in their bar but I will have a seperate pool room with it's own bar for the serious pool teams.

    Re: Our pool is cleaned daily and is spotless except for the flying rats that sometimes shit in it. I had a mate over and he said it would be good for Bikini Shows as the elevated15 metre bar runs along side the pool and would give a great view. At present I have put large fans over the pool and the air deflecting off the water gives great cooling around the bar.

    Re Cocktails: I only drink beer and think exotic drinks are a waste of money. But we have hundreds of Hi-So Thais that visit our Mooban weekly that like to show off and impress with these cocktails and as my wife has done a course we will give it a go.

    We will have an open area in front of what I term a 7 eleven copy-cat shop we have almost finished with umbrellaed seating outside next to the klong where people go fishing.

    Re: The live music. As I am not a bad drummer I hope to attract some good musicians to the venue and have already spoken to a few good bands if they would do a gig here. Personally I hate karaoke but to have it for someone's birthday party is acceptable.
    As I will have a number of large screens I am going to concentrate on Music Videos most days.

    As for sports I will have a hardcourt tennis court, a putting green, a half basketball court, a separate darts zone and will host a few Muay Thai bouts as we have enough room for 500 seats around a portable ring.

    And thank you to everyone for your response.

  9. #9
    CCBW Stumpy's Avatar
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    LT,
    I agree almost 100% with what Headworx posted, with some addon to #1 and #4.

    # 1) I do like a place that has both air con and outdoor seating options. I always prefer outdoor but not when its wicked hot or insect season, especially in the evening, nothing more bothersome that skeeters eating on you or flies landing on your food. A lot would also depend on what exactly I am doing there. If with a large group like I do frequently with colleagues, we always prefer indoor AC dining. Its more pleasant and a bit quieter. Will you have small dining room areas? I see many places that have private areas for large(r) parties. Very nice option IMHO.

    # 4). Not sure about the pool thing and swimming and alcohol and...well the things that could happen. Seems like it could be a bit problematic. I have not been to just a restaurant/bar that had people swimming. I see them at a resort where people are staying but I do not think you are opening a resort. I guess if the pool and dining area were well segregated it could be a nice option but doubt many would swim. Like HW, I think a target market might assist with answering that question.


    Best of luck on your venture.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat DrWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loy toy View Post
    personally i hate karaoke but to have it for someone's birthday party is acceptable.
    it's fucking not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    As for sports I will have a hardcourt tennis court, a putting green, a half basketball court, a separate darts zone and will host a few Muay Thai bouts as we have enough room for 500 seats around a portable ring.


    Sounds like you are setting up an YMCA or community centre, not a bar.

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    No pool table if it is a public bar. Boys in brown will visit asking about gambling. Huge hog of space as well.

    Swimming pool if I can sit in the water at a bar. No need to leave for a pee. (Don't tell my mate Graham)

    No reason not to have a cocktail menu if they can be properly mixed. Cocktail customers may not mix with pool players.
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  12. #12
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^^ It's a big piece of land which gives the patrons some options about what to do to enjoy themselves physically and then having a shower and a beer and a bite to eat . I'm even setting a cricket net for batting and bowling practice.

  13. #13
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    LT

    The smorgasbord of offerings for your intended establishment makes it a bit difficult to envisage how it all come together and work.

    Personally I think you are over complicating it.

    Can you post a small mud map of the area available detailing where each activity is intended? I think then you may get more meaningful suggestions.

    Good luck with the venture.

  14. #14
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    ^agree with Iceman there. It seems that you're planning something big & complicated immediately. Just a suggestion - maybe start small & expand later when you have feedback & some ROI?

    If you intend to have hi-so Thai clients, then cocktails, A/C & nice atmosphere (not rowdy), good menu/ food are must-haves. I agree that the hi-so cocktail drinkers do not generally mix with rowdy ppl who watch bikini pool parties. For the hi-so ladies (and men) who drink cocktails, they may be the type who post pics on FB, IG, etc, so good ambiance is important.

    As others have said, you'll have to determine which type of clients are your target (age range, social class, nationality, etc). If you want younger people (Gen Z and millenials), then you'll need to be active on social media and might have to get a few "influencers". The Gen Zs are entering the job market while the older millenials are entering or in their early 40s. Different preferences from Gen X or baby boomers.

    Good luck!

  15. #15
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    I will do a basic plan view and send it to Joe90 and ask him to post it for me.

    In the meantime I will let you all know why I am setting this up.

    Basically we have a number of people visiting us buying my wife's products.

    At present we have the fridge freezers inside the main pool area off the kitchen and we have to chain my dog up.

    At the front of the property is a large mooban parking area but that is filled daily with the hi-so pool party goers.

    We decided to break through the Mooban boundary wall which opens up onto main road and we built a shophouse. There is a large parking area adjacent.

    We can also gain separate access to the front and the rear of the property which gives us an area for the bar/restaurant area and then the rear of the property which will have the tennis court, poolroom and some accommodation for the staff with a two bedroom villa upstairs.

  16. #16
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    If you intend to have hi-so Thai clients, then cocktails, A/C & nice atmosphere (not rowdy), good menu/ food are must-haves. I agree that the hi-so cocktail drinkers do not generally mix with rowdy ppl who watch bikini pool parties. For the hi-so ladies (and men) who drink cocktails, they may be the type who post pics on FB, IG, etc, so good ambiance is important.
    We have a large number of Hi-So Thai's visit our estate nightly all driving their Benzs, BMW's and the like and everynight they are still going until 4.00am and, particularly the women, they are very rowdy.

    A number of them have approached my wife asking for breakfast but we are not open yet so they call Grab or 7Eleven for a meal.

    As for our intended clientele I will let time decide that as if we do well that will be great if not I will have a place to play tennis and have a beer with our friends and play music if I want.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat DrWilly's Avatar
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    Have a you constructed or considered a business plan?

  18. #18
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^ Yes mate. Been working on this for years.

    The main plan is to sell food directly from us instead of supplying to other outlets who put up to 50% on top of what we supply them for.

    Easy...........Pezzie if you take a minute to think about it.

    We have lost money for a number of years to get our product out there and now we hope to cash in as there is a customer base waiting.

    Of course we will not up our prices by 50% more like 20% which will make the business profitable particularly as people will be having a beer or two

    Sounds OK for you Willy?
    Last edited by Loy Toy; 06-03-2023 at 11:58 AM.

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat DrWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Sounds OK for you Willy?
    I'll be 100% honest and say it sounds like the back of a serviette (or beer coaster) business plan, rather than an actual plan. But iI'm sure you can make it work and learn along the way.

  20. #20
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^

    So what would your business plan be if you care to share your obvious knowledge about such business ventures?

  21. #21
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    Headworx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    The main plan is to sell food directly from us instead of supplying to other outlets who put up to 50% on top of what we supply them for.
    But you guys already had a shop/restaurant selling your Wife's food directly once already out by the lake right? I thought you were talking about a bar/restaurant with a full menu sort of thing here?

  22. #22
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^Yes mate my plan was to spend a little money on a short term lease so I could see if it might work!

    The exercise worked well and gave me the confidence to open something more expansive based upon customer feedback.

    I am not one to be frivolous and too expansive but people will follow a product they like and wish to buy.

    If I am wrong then be it on my head, as my wife will remind me daily, but I want something I would like to own for myself and if people want to come and share that is great.

    If I am correct it could be the best establishment in Pattaya and that is my goal.

    Humbly I repeat, this is not my business, and that is why I asked for some advice.

  23. #23
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    ^Mate I wish you nothing but luck but as you also know having been here so long and seen the way things work, the food industry is incredibly fickle and hard to succeed at long term! How many good places have we seen fold eventually, and average to bad places that were lucky to last 6 months. Next problem of course is being Thailand, as soon as any business becomes successful there'll be 10 places selling the same thing for cheaper appear in the immediate area in no time at all.

    Anyways, my advice would be to have a precise business model that you've bounced off as many locals as you can for feedback and even then, be prepared to make changes on the fly to meet the market.

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat DrWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    ^

    So what would your business plan be if you care to share your obvious knowledge about such business ventures?
    So I guess that's a no then. It was a simple question and no need to be snarky. I wish you all the best.

  25. #25
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^^ Yes mate things change daily and the challenges are ever present but I want to give this a go!

    Nobody has control on my wife's recipes nor, and as we own the land, nor title challenges.

    I repeat if it works I will be extremely happy and if it does not, mai pen rai.

    Thanks for your valued input and I will speak to the missus before putting in the helicopter pad!

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