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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    There seems to be a lack of understanding, especially in "computerised" war games. They are designed to show up your weaknesses against an opponent so you can improve or change tactics, weapons etc and adjust any future defence policy going forward.
    In the end politics out trumps any predictions made by war games. Sigma I-64 is one that springs to mind...

  2. #102
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    F35 is the actual Gen 5, far more advanced than anything Sukhoi can ever make - Gen 4.9 SU57 will be their swansong and they will push it to developing countries who have no money to pay for it. Sukhoi has extremely good and sometimes best scientists and developers but their country has no resources. Real competition is Chengdu J-20 with Chinese tech with update schedule far faster than F35.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC101 View Post
    Real competition is Chengdu J-20 with Chinese tech with update schedule far faster than F35.

  4. #104
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    Russia does not have economic power to support lifetime service and development of this fighter, however good it is now. No software or firmware updates, weapons systems support and most importantly no integration with ground forces and command, which gives it a market of what? China owns poor Africa and has far superior J-20. US and UK have full defence contracts with Middle East and developed African countries, South Americans have no money but want same Africa has from China... oh hey Russians can sell it to European Union Army. They are suckers for Russian energy, mouth on that gas pipe easy to skip democracy win/win minus human rights and environment.

  5. #105
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    Instead of sending silly emoticons or whatev, could you intelligently tell what you think I said is wrong. BTW I dont post not based in true fact, I do not support fake news

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC101 View Post
    BTW I dont post not based in true fact, I do not support fake news

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC101 View Post
    F35 is the actual Gen 5, far more advanced than anything Sukhoi can ever make - Gen 4.9 SU57 will be their swansong and they will push it to developing countries who have no money to pay for it. Sukhoi has extremely good and sometimes best scientists and developers but their country has no resources. Real competition is Chengdu J-20 with Chinese tech with update schedule far faster than F35.

    Load of nonsense like usual. Ah.. the digital weapons ! Yeah. Like track and trace radar that Russia had on the Miog 25 before the seppos.


  8. #108
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC101 View Post
    Russia does not have economic power to support lifetime service and development of this fighter, however good it is now. No software or firmware updates, weapons systems support and most importantly no integration with ground forces and command, which gives it a market of what? China owns poor Africa and has far superior J-20. US and UK have full defence contracts with Middle East and developed African countries, South Americans have no money but want same Africa has from China... oh hey Russians can sell it to European Union Army. They are suckers for Russian energy, mouth on that gas pipe easy to skip democracy win/win minus human rights and environment.

    Except you know fuck all about the Russian economy except what you see on CNN


    Russian economy
    -4th most FX reserves
    -5th biggest oil consumer
    -4th biggest electricty producer
    -4th biggest electricity consumer
    -5th most billionaires
    -5th bigggest GDP/PPP
    -2nd most immigrated to country in the world- Russia: The World's Second-Largest Immigration Haven | The National Interest

    And the J-20 is the Mig 1.44 that China bought from Russia. You moron.

    And its actually the F-22 that's full of analog electronics and non encrypted software.

    The F-22 and the F-35 Are Struggling to Talk to Each Other ... And to the Rest of USAF - Air Force Magazine

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC101 View Post
    weapons systems support and most importantly no integration with ground forces and command
    Both the Russians and Chinese now have datalink that operates in a similar fashion to the Western product.

  10. #110
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    ^^ Old news...
    ...The F-22 Upgrade 6 program added full Link-16 capability.

  11. #111
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^^ Old news...
    ...The F-22 Upgrade 6 program added full Link-16 capability.
    I know. I'm not bashing the F-22, it was just an older plane needed upgrades

  12. #112
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC101 View Post
    Russia does not have economic power to support lifetime service and development of this fighter, however good it is now. No software or firmware updates, weapons systems support and most importantly no integration with ground forces and command, which gives it a market of what? China owns poor Africa and has far superior J-20. US and UK have full defence contracts with Middle East and developed African countries, South Americans have no money but want same Africa has from China... oh hey Russians can sell it to European Union Army. They are suckers for Russian energy, mouth on that gas pipe easy to skip democracy win/win minus human rights and environment.
    You are my mistaking the Sukhoi civil aircraft program with the military side. Sukhoi has a whole depot and plant in India. Military aircraft sales and service was one of the few things in Russia that grew and was healthy through the 90's till now.

    The civilian aircraft had logistics and maintenance issues that they are trying to work out. And they wanted to make the hard mistakes with the Sukhoi Superjet before they started the MS-21 airliner. The MS-21 is designed by the Yakovlev design bureau. They had success with civilian jets before like the Yak 40 village trijet

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Load of nonsense like usual. Ah.. the digital weapons ! Yeah. Like track and trace radar that Russia had on the Miog 25 before the seppos.

    The problem is none of those have anything to do with being 5th gen...

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    The problem is none of those have anything to do with being 5th gen...
    They are different weight classes. But for ppl like DC who take cheap shots , I'll take a cheap shot too. The su 57 is built to go against the F-22.

    But internal weapons , supercruise and stealth are all 5th gen characteristics.

  15. #115
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    The problem with all of these hugely expensive and complicated weapons systems is that they are designed to fight against other advanced systems, but usually end up getting used in very unequal battles.

    In a recent wargame the US lost to China in a virtual battle near Taiwan. Their Aircraft Carriers were vulnerable to missile attacks (something that has been predicted for several years) and their networks were brought down my hackers. So, the obvious thing to do is to throw a few billion more dollars into making the systems even more advanced, more sophisticated and harden them against cyber attacks. However, it is highly unlikely that the US will actually have to fight against an advanced military power like China or Russia.

    Instead, the next opponent will probably be another Iraq or another Afghanistan, and the existing A10s, F18s, etc. will be more than adequate.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    However, it is highly unlikely that the US will actually have to fight against an advanced military power like China or Russia.
    Maybe the NATO:

    • Albania (2009)
    • Belgium (1949)
    • Bulgaria (2004)
    • Canada (1949)
    • Croatia (2009)
    • Czech Republic (1999)
    • Denmark (1949)
    • Estonia (2004)
    • France (1949)
    • Germany (1955)


    • Greece (1952)
    • Hungary (1999)
    • Iceland (1949)
    • Italy (1949)
    • Latvia (2004)
    • Lithuania (2004)
    • Luxembourg (1949)
    • Montenegro (2017)
    • Netherlands (1949)
    • North Macedonia (2020)


    • Norway (1949)
    • Poland (1999)
    • Portugal (1949)
    • Romania (2004)
    • Slovakia (2004)
    • Slovenia (2004)
    • Spain (1982)
    • Turkey (1952)
    • The United Kingdom (1949)
    • The United States (1949)

    What is NATO?

    Plus Ukraine (41 countries) v Russia face, off is indicative of the perceived/actual abilities to deliver.
    Last edited by OhOh; 01-08-2021 at 02:14 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    The problem is none of those have anything to do with being 5th gen...
    To a man child like backspin they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Ukraine face off is indicative of the perceived/actual abilities to deliver.
    What nonsense are you blathering on about now?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Maybe the NATO:
    Still making no sense at all. Now you're suggesting a list of NATO countries are the enemy. Plus ša change . . .

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Still making no sense at all.
    Par the course for this loon.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    What nonsense are you blathering on about now?
    Somebody threatened, another indicated put up or shut up, the somebody withdrew.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Except you know fuck all about the Russian economy except what you see on CNN


    Russian economy
    -4th most FX reserves
    -5th biggest oil consumer
    -4th biggest electricty producer
    -4th biggest electricity consumer
    -5th most billionaires
    -5th bigggest GDP/PPP
    -2nd most immigrated to country in the world- Russia: The World's Second-Largest Immigration Haven | The National Interest

    And the J-20 is the Mig 1.44 that China bought from Russia. You moron.

    And its actually the F-22 that's full of analog electronics and non encrypted software.

    The F-22 and the F-35 Are Struggling to Talk to Each Other ... And to the Rest of USAF - Air Force Magazine
    Ok.

    I think you are a victim of maskirovka. Your post implies You don't know fck all about Russian economy.
    Or MIG fighter jets relationship with the Chinese.


    "5th bigggest GDP/PPP"
    You should keep your claims less totally mad to be believeable to even the zombie crowd. That too bigggggest thing to ask?

  22. #122
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    He lives in his own little world, doesn't he?


  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Somebody threatened, another indicated put up or shut up, the somebody withdrew.
    More than likely they just noticed that you are an incoherent loon and decided it was not worth their time.

  24. #124
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    ^

    Always handy to have a valid passport, or even two.

  25. #125
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    To a man child like backspin they do.



    What nonsense are you blathering on about now?
    You are a clueless cocksucker. Internal weapons performance is all 5th gen

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