Thread: should people be forced to get vaccinated

Originally Posted by Cujo

Wish I COULD get get vaccinated.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Indeed.

Yup, same

Originally Posted by cyrille

But in the medium and long term, if everyone's health can be safeguarded by a vaccine, those without a medical reason for remaining unvaccinated should be told they need to either get vaccinated or seek alternative employment.

We haven't even reached the medium term, let alone the long term, and some of you are already advocates for and cheering along societal consequences for people who are apprehensive about a vaccine for a virus that some 18 months ago didn't even exist.

Thats wrong.

Presenting the argument that an unvaccinated person surrounded by vaccinated people is a danger to society and everyone around them is also nothing more than an appeal to emotion fallacy.

And also wrong.

Originally Posted by Slick

We haven't even reached the medium term, let alone the long term, and some of you are already advocates for and cheering along societal consequences for people who are apprehensive about a vaccine for a virus that some 18 months ago didn't even exist.

Thats wrong.

Coronaviruses aren't new and the technology and methodology behind the vaccines isn't really either.

Uncertainty or reticence over any medical process / procedure is perfectly understandable however it's hard to avoid the conclusion that in this case mis/dis-information from the usual right-wing quarters has played a part, muddied the waters, and added to it.



Ps. and congrats to Balders on the century!

Originally Posted by Slick

We haven't even reached the medium term, let alone the long term, and some of you are already advocates for and cheering along societal consequences for people who are apprehensive about a vaccine for a virus that some 18 months ago didn't even exist.

It isn't a societal consequence when someone who refuses to be vaccinated is told that their employment has been terminated.

...amazing: there are 23 posters still alive...I blame vaccinations...

Originally Posted by Slick

Then, by your very own construct, they can not be employed.

No, they are existing employees who cannot meet your criteria but not by personal choice. You are entitled - obligated even - to protect them and not expose them to potentially fatal hazards.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

It's weird how you only believe "the scientists" when it suits an argument you're trying to make.

Look at it as us having educated him just a tiny bit.

Originally Posted by Slick

We haven't even reached the medium term, let alone the long term, and some of you are already advocates for and cheering along societal consequences for people who are apprehensive about a vaccine for a virus that some 18 months ago didn't even exist.

Thats wrong.

Presenting the argument that an unvaccinated person surrounded by vaccinated people is a danger to society and everyone around them is also nothing more than an appeal to emotion fallacy.

And also wrong.

There is no "emotional fallacy" at work here. There is a global public health emergency that has killed more than four million people, and will kill more if we listen to the infantile rantings about "my freedumbs" of trumpanzees like yourself.

Originally Posted by cyrille

It isn't a societal consequence when someone who refuses to be vaccinated is told that their employment has been terminated.

WTF is it then?

Originally Posted by nidhogg

The whole point - the whole point!!!!!!!!!!! - of vaccination to levels that provide herd immunity is exactly to provide protection for those who CANNOT be vaccinated.

I agree.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I do (actually) have an immunocompromised staff member. While that person HAS been vaccinated, the efficacy for that person is of question. We protect her by ensuring that those around her ARE vaccinated.

Doing your part, which is nice of you, and I fully get it.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

But your whole point here is the typical "my rights outweigh any obligation that I have to society". Frankly that attitude makes me sick tp my stomach.

Im not anti-vax, but I disagree with the premise that we should immediately slam down societal restrictions on people who are not ready to get the vaccine. I believe theres only a fringe few who are actually anti-vax and the remainder are just apprehensive people. I want to be vaccinated, but im against pushing it on people who choose not to to take it, at least not yet.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I do (actually) have an immunocompromised staff member. While that person HAS been vaccinated, the efficacy for that person is of question. We protect her by ensuring that those around her ARE vaccinated.

Originally Posted by Slick

Doing your part, which is nice of you, and I fully get it.

I don't 'get' how you can say you 'get' this.

Are you saying that at this 1-1 level you understand and agree with the approach?

If so then what goes wrong when the same humane conscientiousness is extended beyond 1-1?

This is the whole argument encapsulated. How can you 'get' it, but...

Originally Posted by cyrille

It isn't a societal consequence when someone who refuses to be vaccinated is told that their employment has been terminated.

Seems like the very definition of a societal consequence to me.

Originally Posted by cyrille

I don't 'get' how you can say you 'get' this.

Are you saying that at this 1-1 level you understand and agree with the approach?

If so then what goes wrong when the same humane conscientiousness is extended beyond 1-1?

I am sympathetic to his situation, understand his reasoning, and respect his commitment to the safety of his staff member, but disagree with the position being sold wholesale and at the whim of 'employers' to do with as they see fit.

Originally Posted by Slick

So, in this hypothetical employment situation, you have a member of the staff that *cannot* be vaccinated due to what must be some serious medical condition, yet should still be able to work, their personal safety and the safety of the other staff be damned, but a healthy-enough person who can get the vaccination but doesn't want to (for whatever reason) should not be allowed to be employed because.... Of what society needs.

If we care about society, then the sick & vulnerable person(s) should be home, and the healthy should be at work. It is a deadly pandemic after all.

Quite right. Say for example that someone has HIV due to drug abuse when they were younger. It seems their employment rights come before someone with a mental health issue that caused them to develop a phobia of injections.

Lest we forget....

Adult deaths from COVID-19 are "at this point entirely preventable" thanks to vaccines, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky said during a White House coronavirus briefing on Tuesday.

CDC: Nearly every adult COVID-19 death is now "entirely preventable" - Axios

Originally Posted by Slick

I am sympathetic to his situation, understand his reasoning, and respect his commitment to the safety of his staff member, but disagree with the position being sold wholesale and at the whim of 'employers' to do with as they see fit.

I agree. Employers should not be allowed to expose their employees to a potentially fatal virus because of something they heard Tucker Carlsson say.

Talking of social consequences....

‘I’ll inject the vaccine in your butt’: Philippines president threatens to arrest those who refuse vaccination

‘I’ll inject the vaccine in your butt’: Philippines president threatens to arrest those who refuse vaccination | WGN-TV

^2% of the country has had access to jabs at this point. Refusal ain't an issue.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Lest we forget....



CDC: Nearly every adult COVID-19 death is now "entirely preventable" - Axios

And of 42 deaths in people with Delta variant infections, 23 were unvaccinated and seven had received only one dose. The other 12 had received two doses more than two weeks before.

Covid: Unvaccinated most at risk from Delta variant - BBC News

So not quite "entirely preventable"....

Originally Posted by Troy

Covid: Unvaccinated most at risk from Delta variant - BBC News

So not quite "entirely preventable"....

No but statistically so. You don't know how many of those 12 people out of 33,000 were elderly or already sick.

and we will never know how many people vaccinated with 2 doses and exposed to the delta variant , did not develop covid

I'd take the anti-vaxxers out and shoot them dead - don't need to their fcuking winging anymore....

Originally Posted by Slick

No.



No.



No.

Most people want the vaccination, and theres only a few nutters out there who refuse to get it, so if people dont want it and dont care if they get sick then let them carry on. Everyone else is vaccinated so who gives a shit.

U R going to die anyway. and i dont think from covid.

Originally Posted by tomcat

...we are in a health emergency: unfortunate precedents are acceptable to ensure social safety...

say who.??