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  1. #1
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    Waiting for Moderna?

    I've been offered the local AstraZeneca vaccine through work.

    It's tempting to get it as it's better than nothing at preventing serious disease from the Wuhan virus.

    Though, I think I'll wait for the Moderna vaccine which should be available at private Thai hospitals in a few month's time — October at the latest, apparently.

    Besides the fact that there are reported serious (rare) side effects from AstraZeneca, it (along with sinovac) has a much lower protection rate against the variants, from what I've read.

    I've been doing a bit of a deep dive on the various vaccines.

    It seems the sinovac vaccine does well against the wuhan virus but is lacking when it comes to the variants, especially the south African one.

    AstraZeneca does better because the technology is on a higher level.

    Though it's still not as good as the mRNA vaccines which produces a cellular reaction, i.e the "mRNA is recognized by cells as ‘pathogen’ stimulating a strong immune response" — meaning that unlike inactivated virus vaccines like sinovac which teach the body to look for "that guy" and kill him, mRNA vaccines teach the body to remember his hair, his teeth, his ears, so when he disguises himself with new variants, the body will kill him too with CD8+ T cells, which hide out in the bone marrow.

    I'm guessing it will take wide use of mRNA vaccines to get the virus under control as so far there haven't been any countries who have done it with a Chinese vaccine — Seychelles tried.

    Though, maybe it will take just a higher percent of the population being vaccinated with an inactivated virus vaccine or viral vector vaccine to get the same herd immunity response as the mRNA vaccines.




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    Inactivated virus vaccines (includes killed particles of the virus): Sinovac

    Viral vector vaccines (delivers the wuhan virus gene in a harmless monkey virus): AstraZeneca

    mRNA vaccines (delivers a molecule with genetic instructions to develop a distinctive spike protein): Moderna, Pfizer


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    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2102214


    May 20, 2021

    A two-dose regimen of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine did not show protection against mild-to-moderate Covid-19 due to the B.1.351 variant. (Funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and others; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04444674. opens in new tab; Pan African Clinical Trials Registry number, PACTR202006922165132. opens in new tab).

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    AstraZeneca Vaccine Fails To Protect Against The South African Variant, Says Study

    Two doses of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine were found to have only a 10.4% efficacy against mild-to-moderate infections caused by the B.1.351 South Africa variant, according to a phase 1b-2 clinical trial published on Tuesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

    ----
    Doctor urges Pfizer, Moderna vaccine to fight B.1.351 variant | Thaiger

    Doctor urges Pfizer, Moderna vaccine to fight B.1.351 variant
    --
    Inactivated virus vaccines: Sinovac
    Viral vector vaccines\: AstraZeneca
    RNA vaccines: Moderna, Pfizer
    From WHO: https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=b11be994_4

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    I've been doing a bit of a deep dive on the various vaccines.

  4. #4
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    I did chose AstraZeneca without hesitation. It is very effective, severe side effects are extremely rare, one or a few in a million. It gives very good protection 2 weeks after the first of two vaccinations already. I might hesitate if I were a young woman. But even then vaccination now is better than another vaccine in 2 months.

    Latest studies show that a mix is even more efficient. AstraZeneca for the first shot. Biontec/Pfizer for the second shot, if you can get that.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

  5. #5
    In Uranus
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    I had my first jab of Moderna back mid-February, the second in March. Done and dusted. I have not worried about going out anymore. COVID-19 is over for me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    That's true, King Willy.

    The deep dive led me to links to medical journals which was like reading a foreign language — deep respect to the doctors who can easily understand those articles.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    But even then vaccination now is better than another vaccine in 2 months.
    That's true.

    Though, one other reason I'm hesitant is that a local company owned by the King is the one making the AstraZeneca vaccine being used in Thailand (starting this month).


    They've never made vaccines before.


    Apparently, the company sent samples of their batches to Astra HQ to be tested — so there is that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    The diagrams I posted (above your post) are understandable by non-medical experts — I would say.

    Don't you agree?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post

    Latest studies show that a mix is even more efficient. AstraZeneca for the first shot. Biontec/Pfizer for the second shot, if you can get that.

    Thats what myself and many others are doing here in Canada. First shot of AZ done, Pfizer in the next two weeks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Though, one other reason I'm hesitant is that a local company owned by the King is the one making the AstraZeneca vaccine being used in Thailand (starting this month).


    They've never made vaccines before.
    Can't comment on that, but see your concern.

  11. #11
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    OP

    I practically posted the same thing a couple of hours before you, albeit in the covid thread.

    I got an email today telling me I am booked in for the 15th June to get vaccinated.

    I reply saying they got the wrong guy, I have not been consulted about this and asked what I'm being vaccinated against.

    They say it's defo me, in Thailand, and it's a COVID-19 vaccine.

    I tell them I am not available on this date. I ask if this is mandatory, what vaccine is on offer and if it's free.

    They tell me, Astrozeneca is the cocktail on offer and that it's free from the government.



    So now I'm confused. I have been on the fence with this one, with the mind that I'm not going to go out of my way to get the vaccine but will go willingly if it comes to the point I HAVE to get it. Like for a job or travel or because they make it legally mandatory.

    I can register in Hat Yai for the Moderna vaccine.

    I've not been following this and don't know about the different vaccines. Any advice or opinions appreciated.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    OP

    I practically posted the same thing a couple of hours before you, albeit in the covid thread.
    so what did you decide?

  13. #13
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    Well I’m not really fussed about the vaccine at all to be honest. If they can change the date of my appointment and bag me a couple of vaccine trips to bkk then fuck it, why not?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    Well I’m not really fussed about the vaccine at all to be honest. If they can change the date of my appointment and bag me a couple of vaccine trips to bkk then fuck it, why not?
    fair enough.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    I had the choice of Pfizer or the chinky shit. Logically, I went for Pfizer.

    All the people who got Sinopharm are being contacted to see if a third dose will get them near a safe level of inoculation.

    AZ is OK if you have the doses at least eight weeks apart. The risk of blood clots is negligible, especially compared to the risk of them if you get the bug.

    I would have had AZ if that had been available. But never the chinky shit. And not over Pfizer.

  16. #16
    Isle of discombobulation Joe 90's Avatar
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    4000 baht for the Moderna vaccine in Thailand is a fvcking piss take.

    No problems with the AZ here.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I had the choice of Pfizer or the chinky shit. Logically, I went for Pfizer.

    All the people who got Sinopharm are being contacted to see if a third dose will get them near a safe level of inoculation.

    AZ is OK if you have the doses at least eight weeks apart. The risk of blood clots is negligible, especially compared to the risk of them if you get the bug.

    I would have had AZ if that had been available. But never the chinky shit. And not over Pfizer.
    I had AZ. We all got the same one through work and we had our 2nd doses 2 weeks ago (7/8 weeks after the first). My mate got the VID 3 days after his 2nd dose (I think it takes another 2 weeks to take effect)...

    He's currently feeling like shit having food left outside the spare room at home which he's been shoved into.
    9

  18. #18
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    I had the Pfizer so far - I was expecting the AZ

    I am due my second dose shortly and if I have the choice I will take the AZ because of the reports that mixing the vaccines is more effective

  19. #19
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    I still cannot get my head around the fact there is no vaccine for the common cold and yet a vaccine for covid was developed in record time.

    I am not a conspiracy theorist but something does not add up from a common sense point of view.

    And I have not read anywhere that getting vaccinated actually works.

    Anyway if it requires that I need to be jabbed to be able to join normal social activity I will.

  20. #20
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    I am not a conspiracy theorist but something does not add up from a common sense point of view.
    You can get an influenza vaccine.

    you cannot compare an influenza virus with a conornavirus.

    no conspiracy.

  21. #21
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    You can get an influenza vaccine.

    you cannot compare an influenza virus with a conornavirus.

    no conspiracy.
    I've had the influenza shot at the start of the predicted flu season and it is not a vaccine as far as I know.

    In fact I had it over a long period but it didn't stop me from contracting the flu. It only seemed to reduce the intensity and symptoms.

    As far as I am concerned there are still a lot of unanswered questions about this Covid vaccine.

    Only time will tell.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    there is no vaccine for the common cold
    Lime Willy said - we got our annual flu vaccine a short while ago . . . plus there are thousands of vaccines out there for all sorts of viruses/diseases

    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    And I have not read anywhere that getting vaccinated actually works.
    Surely not, LT.

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    I've had the influenza shot at the start of the predicted flu season and it is not a vaccine as far as I know.
    Sigh. What was it then?

  24. #24
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^^ As far as I know, and from personal experience, the flu jab never offered immunity so you cannot term the substance as a vaccine.

    Like me, you had an annual flu injection which backs up my claim that it is not a vaccine.

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    ^^ As far as I know, and from personal experience, the flu jab never offered immunity so you cannot term the substance as a vaccine.

    Like me, you had an annual flu injection which backs up my claim that it is not a vaccine.

    LT, I know nothing about making buckets…

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