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  1. #51
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    ^ Yes I saw it.
    They have to make a decision about what time there should be between jabs and announce that to their customers.
    Well that's the peer review process innit. Can't skip it.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Their test group were between 18-55 years old and the efficacy of the AZ vaccine is averaged over that group, for the 55-65 years old it is extrapolated.
    It is more than strange that they had so few elderly participants, it must either be that they have not understood what the most vulnerable age group is or their figures for that group are really bad.
    Trials use VOLUNTEERS. The company will probably reject applicant who are already vulnerable because their history could deflect more positive aspects of trial results.
    Either the company selected an able bodied group deliberately, or older, more vulnerable volunteers were not considered suitable for the trial, or did not apply in sufficient numbers. It could be that they were deliberately excluded?

  3. #53
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Trials use VOLUNTEERS. The company will probably reject applicant who are already vulnerable because their history could deflect more positive aspects of trial results.
    Either the company selected an able bodied group deliberately, or older, more vulnerable volunteers were not considered suitable for the trial, or did not apply in sufficient numbers. It could be that they were deliberately excluded?
    Or is it possible that the potential allergic reactions could be much more serious in the elderly?

  4. #54
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Or is it possible that the potential allergic reactions could be much more serious in the elderly?
    Ah, that's a very good reason not to include them in the test group and then sell it to be used for that age group anyway..

    "Regulators in Europe are at odds over whether the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine should be given to the elderly. In the UK, the vaccine has been approved for use in adults aged 18 and up, but France, Germany, Sweden and Austria say the vaccine should be prioritised for those under the age of 65. Poland only recommends it for those younger than 60. Italy goes one step further and only recommends it for those 55 and younger.


    Crucially, the reluctance to approve the AstraZeneca vaccine in the elderly is grounded only in concerns about its efficacy. The concern is not that there is data showing the vaccine to be ineffective in the elderly, it's that there is not enough evidence to show that it is effective in this age group."

  5. #55
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Ah, that's a very good reason not to include them in the test group and then sell it to be used for that age group anyway..
    Yeah, show me the advert where they "sold it to be used for that age group"....

    The concern is not that there is data showing the vaccine to be ineffective in the elderly, it's that there is not enough evidence to show that it is effective in this age group."
    Which doesn't answer why they didn't include that age group in the trial, does it?

    According to the data we have so far from AstraZeneca’s phase 3 trials, only two out of 660 people in the trial aged over 65 got sick with COVID-19. Two sick people isn’t enough for a strong statistical analysis.
    AstraZeneca initially enrolled younger people in its trials, with older people enrolled only later. So data on older people in the original trials and another trial in the United States are still on the way.

  6. #56
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Actually it seems there could be a number of reasons, although convenience seems to be the major one.

    A research letter published in JAMA Internal Medicine Sept. 28, co-authored by a UMass Medical School MD/PhD student, reports that older adults were likely to be excluded from more than half of COVID-19 clinical trials and 100 percent of vaccine trials initiated early in the pandemic.
    More than half of COVID-19 clinical trials exclude older adults, according to research co-authored by MD/PhD student Benjamin Helfand


    And:

    Geriatric patients can respond differently from younger patients to drug therapy. Age-related physiological changes can affect pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of the drug. Geriatric patients are more prone to adverse effects due to comorbidities and concomitant drugs. The adverse effects can be severe, or less tolerated, and have serious consequences than the younger population. Not all pharmacotherapeutic outcomes that can occur in the geriatric population can be predicted from nongeriatric populations. Therefore, to assess the benefits and risks of a drug that will be used in elderly, these patients should be appropriately represented in clinical trials.
    Elderly patients’ participation in clinical trials

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Or is it possible that the potential allergic reactions could be much more serious in the elderly?
    Any allergy will surely have manifested itself by the time someone is classed as elderly. Allergic reactions to common medicines are well noted by Pharma companies.

  8. #58
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Any allergy will surely have manifested itself by the time someone is classed as elderly.
    The vaccines didn't exist before 2020.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The vaccines didn't exist before 2020.
    My comment is not directed at new vaccines, but the individuals propensity for discovering an allergy, which increases over the persons lifetime.
    As far as I know, I’m not allergic to anything, despite the experience of precautionary medicines delivered during over 20 years in the military, and more recent exposure to the vagaries of life in Asia.

  10. #60
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  11. #61
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    My comment is not directed at new vaccines, but the individuals propensity for discovering an allergy, which increases over the persons lifetime.
    As far as I know, I’m not allergic to anything, despite the experience of precautionary medicines delivered during over 20 years in the military, and more recent exposure to the vagaries of life in Asia.
    OhOh standard waffling there.

    The vaccine is a new compound for most human bodies. That's why everyone gets sat down for 15 minutes after their injection.

  12. #62
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuketrichard View Post
    You just know he's hanging on for Pfizer or Moderna eh.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    OhOh standard waffling there.

    The vaccine is a new compound for most human bodies. That's why everyone gets sat down for 15 minutes after their injection.
    Not really. The main problem is the formulation of the vaccine, not the actual immunogen. Both formulation and immunogen vary by manufacturer. Pfizer and moderna both have PEG for example, and this is used in other vaccines, hence the possibility of an allergic reaction as they are not " new" to the body.

    Secondly, those with a history of allergic reactions should be observed for 30 mins according to recomendations.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post

    As far as I know, I’m not allergic to anything
    You dribbling idiot, you're allergic to intelligence. Whenever you encounter it your neural networks and synaptic junctions foozle and snap into fitful bursts of protein farts ensuring a steady stream of incoherent babbling launched on a trajectory of imbecility into the cybersphere.

    Antibody testing for COVID 19 infections has been problematic since its discovery and spread not least because it's a virus of the corona strain producing antibodies the presence of which can diminish entirely in an indeterminate time frame. False positives and false negatives are a feature and there it is.

    It ain't like, say, the Hep-A virus which provokes an immune response conferring lifelong protection.

    "Arry knows this but like a chickenhead peasant, he can't bear to lose face and admit he is dozy cvunt.

  15. #65
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    You dribbling idiot, you're allergic to intelligence. Whenever you encounter it your neural networks and synaptic junctions foozle and snap into fitful bursts of protein farts ensuring a steady stream of incoherent babbling launched on a trajectory of imbecility into the cybersphere.

    Antibody testing for COVID 19 infections has been problematic since its discovery and spread not least because it's a virus of the corona strain producing antibodies the presence of which can diminish entirely in an indeterminate time frame. False positives and false negatives are a feature and there it is.

    It ain't like, say, the Hep-A virus which provokes an immune response conferring lifelong protection.

    "Arry knows this but like a chickenhead peasant, he can't bear to lose face and admit he is dozy cvunt.
    It's amazing how retarded armchair pundits like SA can claim to know more about vaccines than the people who actually developed them.


  16. #66
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Secondly, those with a history of allergic reactions should be observed for 30 mins according to recomendations.
    That may be true. Everyone was asked if they had an allergies but I didn't hear anyone say they did so I wasn't aware of anyone being kept longer.

  17. #67
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    You're OK lads, the chinky shit has passed Thailand's "quality tests".



    The first batch of Sinovac Covid-19 vaccines that arrived Thailand on Wednesday has passed the Department of Medical Sciences' quality tests and are ready for delivery to state hospitals, according to Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul.
    Shots pass testing, rollout on the way

  18. #68
    Member Wakey's Avatar
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    They checked that the bottles are full and that the contents looks the right colour.

  19. #69
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    ^66

    Don't know about you lot but I feel uncomfortable being asked if I have any allergies, which sounds innocent enough but when things go wrong could be used as a legal/medical copout.

    Sure it's a legal requirement to facilitate safer treatment, but how are we expected to know if we're allergic to some chemical or cocktail that may never have been in our body before, or in milder doses under different conditions?

    Fwiw, my answer is always the same for me and the kids, none that I know of.

  20. #70
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Secondly, those with a history of allergic reactions should be observed for 30 mins according to recomendations.
    Then again maybe the reason I never saw anyone being treated differently....

    Continued safety monitoring of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in the US has confirmed that anaphylaxis following vaccination is a rare event, with rates of 4.7 cases/million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses administered and 2.5 cases/million Moderna vaccine doses administered, based on information through January 18, 2021.

    Reports of Anaphylaxis After Receipt of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines in the US—December 14, 2020-January 18, 2021 | Allergy and Clinical Immunology | JAMA | JAMA Network

  21. #71
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    ^66

    Don't know about you lot but I feel uncomfortable being asked if I have any allergies, which sounds innocent enough but when things go wrong could be used as a legal/medical copout.
    No, it's simply to make sure that you have the necessary treatments on hand if you have a severe allergic reaction.

    No-one has died from it yet, even though some have had such a reaction - they've been treated quickly with epinephrine etc.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    It's amazing how retarded armchair pundits like SA can claim to know more about vaccines than the people who actually developed them.

    You stupid fuck, I ain't referring to the vaccine, I was referring to the immune response producing antibodies triggered by the COVID-19 infection whose presence often elude accurate testing not least because the viral strain does not provoke the production of antibodies which linger within the immune system. All the data to date seem to confirm that tests are currently unreliable producing both false positives and negatives.

    Christ, it aint fucking rocket science.

    Like I said, 'Arry, you're a preening prat of a chickenhead fearful of losing face. You tit.

  23. #73
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    You stupid fuck, I ain't referring to the vaccine, I was referring to the immune response producing antibodies triggered by the COVID-19 infection whose presence often elude accurate testing not least because the viral strain does not provoke the production of antibodies which linger within the immune system. All the data to date seem to confirm that tests are currently unreliable producing both false positives and negatives.

    Christ, it aint fucking rocket science.

    Like I said, 'Arry, you're a preening prat of a chickenhead fearful of losing face. You tit.
    I'm not sure why you keep wittering the same retarded horseshit, but I'm pretty certain I have no face to lose in front of a bitter old wanker stuck on his boyfriends condo balcony watching the turds bob past.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    You dribbling idiot, you're allergic to intelligence. Whenever you encounter it your neural networks and synaptic junctions foozle and snap into fitful bursts of protein farts ensuring a steady stream of incoherent babbling launched on a trajectory of imbecility into the cybersphere.

    Antibody testing for COVID 19 infections has been problematic since its discovery and spread not least because it's a virus of the corona strain producing antibodies the presence of which can diminish entirely in an indeterminate time frame. False positives and false negatives are a feature and there it is.

    It ain't like, say, the Hep-A virus which provokes an immune response conferring lifelong protection.

    "Arry knows this but like a chickenhead peasant, he can't bear to lose face and admit he is dozy cvunt.
    Actually I’m allergic to your repetitive irrelevant babbling. You read about a topic and assume a level of understanding has been achieved due to your superiority complex. You as usual are incorrect. Firstly, I am already immune to your feeble childish insults.
    Any common allergic reaction is more likely to be apparent in a subject who has lived longer than another. It may not be apparent in some, but the chances of discovery actually increase with age. THAT is not rocket science, but it does seem to have eluded you because you are so stupid. My comment was simply about allergic reactions in the elderly.
    You seem to believe that my comment was about the virus, and antibodies? I can confirm that is not the case. Quite why I have to repeat myself for your benefit defies logic. Are we to assume that you much proclaimed superiority negates such a requirement, or are you really allergic to simple comprehension?

  25. #75
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    I see that idiot Anutininin, the minister in charge of the Health Dept, received his vaccination yesterday.

    Yep, Orwell's Animal Farm sure has been writ large in this rich country which has an awful lot of poor people.

    And all doctors and nurses are to receive the vaccine first because they are on the frontline ..........err........in an epidemic that has seen a mere 26,000 cases in a population of over 65 million???

    The very aged and those elderly with pulmonary and heart issues, diabetics and asthmatics should be the first, not the dictatorship apparatchiks and their cronies.

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