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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    There's wealth to be made in poverty, and we can't blame China for plying traditionally corrupt leaders (oh dear am I stereotyping!) of poor countries with a ton of cash for themselves and often irrelevant though priceless vanity infrastructure for the country; in return for influence and strategic resources.

    It's easy for the hare and the tortoise to be played out in real life without anyone noticing. Western end goals are generally retarded by short political lifetimes, and the need by hook or crook to extend them for another term, while the CCP don't mind how far ahead we are since they plod along investing in longer term ideological goals. Like them or not imho it's working.
    Excellent response.

    We can't blame China but we don't have to like it.

    One issue we tend to overlook is that the US has paved the way for general wealth to be created by open markets . . . China doesn't believe in open markets if they don't conform to its idea of trade, which is always linked politically. And NO, the US doesn't always link it to politics or it wouldn't be in he shit it finds itself in.

    One can be critical of US politics, murdering innocent people thousands of miles away, having an unjust social system at home etc... but doing a Klondyke/OhOh and recently sabang is simply ridiculous. Using terms like drinking 'US Koolaid' is sophomoric at best.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    No doubt the profit to China from using Chinese companies materials and Labour while giving little construction benefit to the local economy, combined with the political leverage that comes with debt, helps in their decision making.
    Yup . . . in a nutshell. We can see this fairly well everywhere in Asia, the Pacific, Africa etc . . . while the 'west' looks to the medium term, China is happy to look at the symbolic 99 years . . . though why they think their system will survive that long is incomprehensible.

  2. #52
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    ...fortunately, the options you present aren't the only ones available...I expect rational thought may rear its ugly head eventually...
    Now here is a Thought- show us some!! Display some rational thought to us, the intellectually curious.
    Ideologocally, I'm seriously with the non-aligned nations myself. Let the US & China engage in their own shitfight.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Ideologocally, I'm seriously with the non-aligned nations
    ...no such thing...all nations are aligned with others in some fashion to advance national interests...

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Now here is a Thought- show us some!!
    Lots of examples and posts on here already, sabang

  5. #55
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    China's imperialism through its use of leveraged foreign economic development has been a strategic aim over the past twenty years and is twofold: to exploit resources for its own economy and to secure a hegemony among the third and emerging world establishing a global dominance.

    They are a plague and until they become civilised with a respect for human rights they should be fought at every turn - like any brutal dictatorship they only respect force.

    The sooner the US put a stop to this China Sea bollocks, the better.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    he makes a very accurate statement, this isn't the first nor the last port they've done with ports - see Pacific islands
    An interesting article, it's a long read but worth it:
    Yes, interesting.

    I was surprised to see no mention of Gwadar in the article. About 20 years ago, a friend of mine who was already retired from the US government talked about Chinese plans to build a naval base at Gwadar, the official line being that it was a commercial venture offering a straight run from Gwadar to the Chinese border on the Korakoram Highway, drastically reducing shipping distances from the Middle East and opening eastern China to more direct trade. Maybe a railway link was also involved. Over the years much of the development has gone ahead, despite all the tribal problems around there.
    Mostly these projects have been Chinese funded and Chinese constructed. So far as I know there is still no Chinese naval presence at Gwadar. In the future, who knows?

  7. #57
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    Oh dear.....


  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    China's imperialism through its use of leveraged foreign economic development has been a strategic aim over the past twenty years and is twofold: to exploit resources for its own economy and to secure a hegemony among the third and emerging world establishing a global dominance.

    They are a plague and until they become civilised with a respect for human rights they should be fought at every turn - like any brutal dictatorship they only respect force.

    The sooner the US put a stop to this China Sea bollocks, the better.
    Sooner the better sounds promising, as though it might happen. I hope that's not what you meant.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post

    Do you know how Loan Sharks work?
    Do you know how many powerful leaders give their children exclusive rights on Cement Production just before a Project like this ? Do you know how many of the powerful leaders give all kinds of ' consultancy ' jobs to illiterate family members ? Do you know how many times incredibly expensive and corrupted projects get built in the areas where these leaders hail from ?

    Do YOU know how corrupt Leaders work ?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Do you know how many powerful leaders give their children exclusive rights on Cement Production just before a Project like this ? Do you know how many of the powerful leaders give all kinds of ' consultancy ' jobs to illiterate family members ? Do you know how many times incredibly expensive and corrupted projects get built in the areas where these leaders hail from ?
    "
    Well so what? Whataboutism..
    My father taught me at young age "That your friends are doing it is not a valid excuse, it is wrong and you are not allowed to do it"

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post

    Some posters in this thread are beyond reason and facts .
    Most notably this would be you , bsnub .
    Never ever let any logic into that paranoia you've got going there .
    Empty vessels ............

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    "
    Well so what? Whataboutism..
    My father taught me at young age "That your friends are doing it is not a valid excuse, it is wrong and you are not allowed to do it"
    And your father was quite right .

    That doesn't stop any of these crazed dictatorial leaders from doing this stuff time after time .
    Remember when the Leader of the Central African Republic ( one of the World's poorest nations ) ordered a Throne made of GOLD !!!!!

    Gavin Newsom in wealthy California is as guilty of hugely wasteful spending as Bokassa was in the CAR . Simply because of Vanity .

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Chinese might gain from essentially owning a port in Sri Lanka.
    A port on island in the eastern Indian Ocean.

    Here is one chart of its debt, dated 2019:

    -thediplomat-2020-10-23-8-jpg


    The banks are:

    China @ 10%

    Asian Development Bank - Japan @ 13%

    resident: Masatsugu Asakawa

    Asian Development Bank

    Japan @ 10%

    World Bank - ameristan @ 9%

    Trump’s World Bank head speaks out on climate change, inequality

    Trump’s World Bank head speaks out on climate change, inequality - Axios

    India -@ 2%

    Other - ? @ approx 9%

    "Market Borrowings" ? 47%


    Here is another graph indicating a more recent debt calculation:

    -image_1547440871-5f4534f908-jpg

    Chinese loans not main source of debt trap, says think tank | Verite Research


    Allegedly China Has 9 - 10% of its debt, the ROW has 90%, certainly not the majority holding.

    Japan and ameristani banks, allegedly hold/held 46% as of 2017.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -debtstock2019-jpg  
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  14. #64
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    Nice to see some facts instead of paranoia .

    bsnub will be along any moment now to tell us that Japan CLEARLY has evil intentions towards Sri Lanka .

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Most notably this would be you , bsnub .
    Never ever let any logic into that paranoia you've got going there .
    Empty vessels ............
    What paranoia would that be? You are a naive clueless fool in regard to China's intent and actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Gavin Newsom in wealthy California is as guilty of hugely wasteful spending as Bokassa was in the CAR . Simply because of Vanity .
    What the fuck are you on about here? You truly are a nutcase. Comparing the governor of California to an African dictator?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Nice to see some facts instead of paranoia .


    It is OhOh. He wouldn't know a fact if it bit him in the ass. He is a mouthpiece of the CCP.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    You are a naive clueless fool in regard to China's intent and actions.
    Whereas YOU of course have up-to-the-minute , inside knowledge of China's intentions and actions !!!!
    Last edited by Wasp; 09-02-2021 at 06:18 PM.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Whereas YOU of course have up-to-the-minute knowledge of China's intentions and actions !!!!
    Just been following Chinese actions in Africa and the rest of the globe for years. It is not difficult to see what has been going on unless you are a blinkered bot of the CCP.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Just been following Chinese actions in Africa and the rest of the globe for years. It is not difficult to see what has been going on unless you are a blinkered bot of the CCP.
    Standard low-IQ bsnub stupidity .
    You have to agree with his paranoia . All derived from impeccable research ( internet ! ) .
    If you don't agree then you must be " a blinkered bot of the CCP " . There's no other explanation .

    I suspect , bsnub , that even YOU know how fatuous your statements are .
    Won't stop you though .

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    You have to agree with his paranoia .
    I asked you before to explain just what paranoia I suffer from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Standard low-IQ bsnub stupidity .
    Right. But you compared the governor of California to a central African dictator. Yet I am the one with a low IQ.



    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    All derived from impeccable research ( internet ! ) .
    So where do you get your information? The fucking encyclopedia Britannica? Pull your head out of your ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    I suspect , bsnub , that even YOU know how fatuous your statements are .
    Won't stop you though .
    You would suspect wrong then. I seem to have poked a sore spot for you. It is typical for all of you CCP grovelling apologists.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    I asked you before to explain just what paranoia I suffer from.



    Right. But you compared the governor of California to a central African dictator. Yet I am the one with a low IQ.





    So where do you get your information? The fucking encyclopedia Britannica? Pull your head out of your ass.



    You would suspect wrong then. I seem to have poked a sore spot for you. It is typical for all of you CCP grovelling apologists.
    That's every cliche covered ! Well Done !!!!

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    And surprising from someone who had never heard the name " Bokassa " or a place called " Central African Republic " . ( It's in Africa , snub . )
    Who said that I never heard the name you wack job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Probably hadn't even known the name ' Gavin Newsom ' ..... or California ?
    There is no parallel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Off you go to your little broken recliner now nubbsy .
    Good lord you are mentally ill.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Who said that I never heard the name you wack job?
    Having yet another tantrum , snubbsy ?

    Stop fretting about China .

    By the way : California is in the US . Just so you don't get too confused and have a Stroke in the middle of your tantrum .

  23. #73
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    This guy is a fucking loon full stop. Completely triggered.



    -giphy-gif

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    This guy is a fucking loon full stop. Completely triggered.
    Even YOU can do better than this - surely ?

    You've already said " loon " three times and of course you've said " fucking " eleven times .

    Even in the depths of your low intelligence you must be able to find an original insult .
    Maybe the paranoia gets in the way ?

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Even in the depths of your low intelligence you must be able to find an original insult .
    Ironic and hypocritical. I imagine that you are a dimwitted trump supporter based on your posts.

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