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Thread: Negress Redux

  1. #26
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Can you explain her ability to even know if her great great grandmothers, all 8 or 16 of them, were raped or not? Becoming a concubine was not necessarily seen as such a bad thing- such as Andrew Jackson's mistress, who had his lub child. By all accounts there was some real affection there.

    I am, unofficially, bastard offspring of the wealthy Gallaher family- by a serving wench, aka my great great grandmother, one of them. Four generations ago though- so I can't really sue boohoo. But it's a good excuse for me to be a loser apparently, and blame everyone else for it! And no- it wasn't rape. It was Ireland.
    ...now I understand your bitterness...thanks for revealing that bit of family dirt...

  2. #27
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    Not the least bitterness. She was a lucky girl actually- he took care of her for life, even hooked her son into Grammar school. Of course her part of the deal was obvious. Quite the beauty, she ended up getting married to a bloke in her late 20's who's first wife had died, so it was OK by the Catholic church to marry this 'fallen woman'. Compared to most in Ireland of that time, I reckon she had a charmed life. Holy Cow, if you think that's family dirt you've got a fairly tame family tree!

  3. #28
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Holy Cow, if you think that's family dirt you've got a fairly tame family tree!
    ...true: no Irish blood at all...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    The logic behind that quite escapes me.
    According to the rule of hypodescent (the social and legal practice of assigning a genetically mixed-race person to the race with less social power) I am the daughter of two black people, the granddaughter of four black people, the great-granddaughter of eight black people.

    If you take the time to understand what she is saying the logic is really very simple. Because she has an African American (slave or not ) as an ancestor she is deemed to be Black as per her statement. It is not taken into account that she actually also has white ancestors which are more numerous than her black ancestors making her more white than black.

    So in essence she is saying people's perception is that she is black and therefore must have had only black ancestors which is not correct.

    I always wonder which parts of a mixed race person belong to which race. For example if a person's mother is Japanese and their father an American are the arms Japanese and the legs American or is the top half American and the bottom half Japanese?

    I personally think she has made a very good point and it really questions people's perceptions.

  5. #30
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    I dunno, but I once had a girlfriend who was half Chinese, half Irish. Oh boy.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    What part of what she said was untrue?
    This Part
    "Dead Confederates are honored all over this country — with cartoonish private statues, solemn public monuments and even in the names of United States Army bases "
    These people were many things and one of them was part of the confederacy. It is not the monuments that are "cartoonist" but her characterization of them. Their (many of them) are honored for their many accomplishments and not for part on perpetuating slavery. If there is a monument erector to someone for their pro slavery stance only , by all means remove it.
    But If we were to remove all monuments of people that had a part in slavery in out history. how many would survive? will we be removing Washington from the dollar bill. Or Jefferson $ 2 bill from the Ulysses Grand from $20 bill ? Will we be taking a sledge hammer to all of Aristotle's busts? erase him from history?
    Or should we put all of them in proper perspective.
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

  7. #32
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    the Ulysses Grand from $20 bill
    ...*cough*...that would be Andrew Jackson; Grand ol' Ulysses is on the $50 bill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    Their (many of them) are honored for their many accomplishments and not for part on perpetuating slavery.
    ...Confederates were traitors, plain and simple...they killed American soldiers in acts of rebellion...their statues should be melted down and sold for scrap...

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Confederates were traitors, plain and simple...they killed American soldiers in acts of rebellion...their statues should be melted down and sold for scrap...
    Where were 'American' soldiers from?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...*cough*...that would be Andrew Jackson; Grand ol' Ulysses is on the $50 bill...

    ...Confederates were traitors, plain and simple...they killed American soldiers in acts of rebellion...their statues should be melted down and sold for scrap...

    "...*cough*...that would be Andrew Jackson; Grand ol' Ulysses is on the $50 bill...
    "

    The point is not what bill they are on but that they were involved in the slave trade.
    Who is deflecting now?

    "...Confederates were traitors, plain and simple...they killed American soldiers in acts of rebellion...their statues should be melted down and sold for scrap..."
    By definition those who want to change the status quo are the ones rebelling . The south simple wanted to continue doing that which they always did in other word maintain the status quo.
    I am not making any value judgments simply stating facts. It was not the Confederate states that changed the conditions under which the southern states joined the federation, It was the North that did , The southern states should have been slowed to go their own way.
    In a bilateral contract when one party is not performing the other has the right to withdraw without penalty.
    So we have the Confederate states, and the Union states. Do you notice the nomenclature?
    Not the Confederates and the Abolitionists but the Confederate and the Unionist
    Simply keep the South in the Union by force. Do you think a State has the right to secede from the federation, or is it like the Hotel California?
    Are there any provisions in the constitution that prohibits a State from leaving the Union? If not then wasn't Lincoln's invasion of the south unconstitutional ?
    As far as the confederate states killing Americans, weren't the union states also killing Americans or weren't the southern states American??

  10. #35
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    With cash crops of tobacco, cotton and sugar cane, America’s southern states became the economic engine of the burgeoning nation. Their fuel of choice? Human slavery.
    If the Confederacy had been a separate nation, it would have ranked as the fourth richest in the world at the start of the Civil War. The slave economy had been very good to American prosperity. By the start of the war, the South was producing 75 percent of the world’s cotton and creating more millionaires per capita in the Mississippi River valley than anywhere in the nation. Slaves represented Southern planters’ most significant investment—and the bulk of their wealth.


    How Slavery Became the Economic Engine of the South - HISTORY

  11. #36
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    Or should we put all of them in proper perspective.
    the perspective that the world has been built on the exploitation of those that can be exploited

    this is the common thread that needs to be acknowledged and not painted rose coloured for historical purposes unless we want to continue in this way

    I think we should be striving to change our inherent selfishness and part of that is to see ourselves for what we really are

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    The logic behind that quite escapes me.
    Mother was raped by a white man when married ? Husband adopted offspring as his own.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Mother was raped by a white man when married ? Husband adopted offspring as his own.
    She doesn't know that. Her mixed race descent could just as possibly result from the unintended consequences of the practice of the oldest profession, rather than some cruel rapist master.

  14. #39
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    The author makes some good points. We really should just eliminate racial classification altogether, except for certain medical conditions it is a pointless way to separate people from each other.

    We can't be a colorblind society if we continue to record and document everyone by their "race".


    As for rape, everyone on the planet is descended from rapists.

  15. #40
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    ^^ True enough. I was simply describing the possible way she could be the daughter of two black parents and the biological offspring of a black and white mix at the same time.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...true: no Irish blood at all...
    If you go back to look at your family tree, and your ancestors were in America before 1850, then more than likely, if not actual serfs they were peasants with a labour obligation to a socially superior landlord and no meaningful rights. White people had inequality issues too.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by English Noodles View Post
    If you go back to look at your family tree, and your ancestors were in America before 1850, then more than likely, if not actual serfs they were peasants with a labour obligation to a socially superior landlord and no meaningful rights. White people had inequality issues too.
    ...nah, none of that chez nous...landowners/farmers on both sides. The only issues were primogeniture and local hatred of Scots Irish...

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by English Noodles View Post
    If you go back to look at your family tree, and your ancestors were in America before 1850, then more than likely, if not actual serfs they were peasants with a labour obligation to a socially superior landlord and no meaningful rights. White people had inequality issues too.
    Things were tough all over.
    One of my antecedents came to Straya in the 1850s and couldn't find a bride, so his family sent him one.
    They'd been on tour in Europe and bought a family of serfs to take back to Ireland to do some serfing there, and the family (from Poland or Ukraine or wherever - alleged to be Russia) had a suitable daughter so voila - instant bedwarmer, baby-maker and servant.
    An excellent purchase that kept on giving value.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by English Noodles View Post
    If you go back to look at your family tree, and your ancestors were in America before 1850, then more than likely, if not actual serfs they were peasants with a labour obligation to a socially superior landlord and no meaningful rights. White people had inequality issues too.
    Historic notes that many don't care to delve into - white indentured servitude and prisoners [as slaves basically] sent to the early colonies in the tens of thousands.

  20. #45
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    I note in Bordeaux which apart from wine, made a lot of money from the slave trade. The statues now have a brief history of the person including their links to the slave trade and other nefarious dealings. The statues should remain for the good works but recognition of the bad should be included.
    Few races have escaped slavery over the ages.The word slave originated from the many Slavs sold into slavery. Last time I looked they were white. The majority of Slaves over history were not black Africans. We cant even say recent history as there are many non African slaves in the world even today.
    I certainly dont know how you remove racial inequality.
    The history of Australia has many dark parts in our past where indigenous people were exploited and killed.
    The government spends roughly 30 billion dollars on approximately 600,000 indigenous people with approx 6 billion going to indigenous specific programs. Overall for every $20,000 per head spent on non indigenous Australians, over $60,000 is spent on indigenous Australians yet they still have appalling rates of crime,alcoholism, kidney disease, diabetes, truancy and family violence, especially towards women. No one has yet found an answer.
    The experience of the African american of course is diferent to that of indigenous peoples although no less valid.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Overall for every $20,000 per head spent on non indigenous Australians, over $60,000 is spent on indigenous Australians yet they still have appalling rates of crime,alcoholism, kidney disease, diabetes, truancy and family violence, especially towards women.
    ...I wonder if this was the case before their social organization was destroyed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    I certainly dont know how you remove racial inequality.
    ...I suspect it starts with education at home that is reinforced in schools...Karens and Bubbas are home-grown and public-schooled phenomena...

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...I wonder if this was the case before their social organization was destroyed...

    ...I suspect it starts with education at home that is reinforced in schools...Karens and Bubbas are home-grown and public-schooled phenomena...
    They didn't have much sugar (just some honey) and refined flours so not much diabetes and kidney disease, no alcohol or tobacco (just pitjuri), and no school so no truancy.
    But they did have crime and violence against women. Women were just servants to the men according to early European writers.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmartin View Post
    But they did have crime and violence against women. Women were just servants to the men according to early European writers.
    ...what do Abo writers have to say on the subject, I wonder...

  24. #49
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    As far as I’m aware there weren’t any aboriginal writers in early colonial times.
    btw ‘Abo’ is viewed as a perjorative term by aboriginal people.

  25. #50
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    ...what do Abo writers have to say on the subject, I wonder...
    Dunno, we can't find one.

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