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Thread: It's VE day.

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    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    400 Russian Cadets Infected With Coronavirus After Moscow V-Day Rehearsals – Proekt

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/11/400-russian-cadets-infected-with-coronavirus-after-moscow-v-day-rehearsals-proekt-a70238

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    ^Quite a good contribution to discussion about the roles of Germans/Russian at World War, isn't it ...

    It's really not surprising that somebody with such a nick as you will vehemently demonize the role of Russians in the WW2.

    However, you are quite an exception. Usually, whenever the discussion is nearing the war time the Germans always try to change the topic, they are very shy to speak about that.

    Remembering one of last TV appearance of the last decent German chancellor Helmut Schmidt. When asked on the problems of EU, why there is no firm hand to lead it? He said the Germans cannot do it. They are still burdened by the history of 20th century. Whether anybody wants to hear or not, the horrible industrialized murders, the Hilter's war, all of it laying as a stone on the consciousness of European nations. This burden excludes any leading position by Germans...

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    It's really not surprising that somebody with such a nick as you will vehemently demonize the role of Russians in the WW2.
    Why? Because it shows that he's German? Does yours show that you're a Dyke or that you want to live in unaccessible areas, therefore making you illegible to comment?

    Please do explain why you think being German means demonising Russia . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Usually, whenever the discussion is nearing the war time the Germans always try to change the topic, they are very shy to speak about that.
    Actually, you're quite wrong. Talk about it on an intellectual/historical level - no problems. Approach Germans with your attitude and then you'll get pushback. That's more about you being an arsehole than Germans being 'shy'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Helmut Schmidt. When asked on the problems of EU, why there is no firm hand to lead it? He said the Germans cannot do it. They are still burdened by the history of 20th century
    Schmidt was Chancellor in the late 70s - a very different time - Let's have a look at the Soviet Union in the 70s and see how their communist world fared . . . how their rhetoric was disproven and the SU, and now Russia, are basket cases in may ways

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    This burden excludes any leading position by Germans...
    Haha . . . Your burden of having had a lobotomy excludes you from commenting, yet here you are proving the truth of that issue. In case you haven't noticed, Germany has had a leading position in the EU for several decades.

    Let's have a chat with Poles, Czechs, East-Germans, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Slovaks etc etc etc . . . on how well the SU fared as their militarily oppressors, how well liked they are . . . (having lived in the ČSSR during the Soviet occupation and having been back several times I can assure you that Russia is hated - same feelings shared by many in these countries)

    The SU ensured that their militarily oppressed and occupied nations stayed as economically and socially underdeveloped as they were, though some still managed to outshine the Communist murderers in Moscow. Russia couldn't lead a piss-up in a brewery

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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    At the end of the day we can all say that the Soviets/Russians are not well liked (putting it mildly). I guess this picture says it all
    yeah, because Germany was fooking popular too

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    Originally Posted by HermantheGerman (It's VE day.)
    At the end of the day we can all say that the Soviets/Russians are not well liked (putting it mildly). I guess this picture says it all




    Actually, even the British did not like them either before that war or the previous one. George V promised to rescue his cousin Nicholai II, however, finally withdrew his help.

    Can somebody recognize which one is who?

    It's VE day.-georgev-nicholai-jpg



    And rumors had it that Nicholai purchased a lot of weaponry from George, paid by gold, however, the ship hadn't arrived...

    Why did Britain’s King George V betray Russia’s last tsar?

    Russia’s last tsar, Nicholas II who was shot dead by the Bolsheviks together with his family, could have escaped this grim fate and left Russia after the abdication in March 1917. His cousin King George V offered Nicholas II refuge, but then unexpectedly withdrew the offer - and later tried to cover up the fact.

    “The murder [of the Russian royal family] shook my father’s confidence in the innate decency of mankind….. My father had personally planned to rescue him [Nicholas II] with a British cruiser but in some way the plan was blocked.” That’s what Duke of Windsor wrote about his father George V in his book A King’s Story. However, there are grounds to believe that it was George V himself who blocked the plan.

    ‘England does not extend its hospitality’

    The fate of the dethroned tsar and his family was a peculiar subject after the February Revolution in 1917. Socialist politicians that came to power were afraid that a counter-revolution could be fomented around the tsar, while liberals did not want to give the radical cause a boost by allowing reprisals against Nicholas II.

    Read more
    Why did Britain’s King George V betray Russia’s last tsar? - Russia Beyond

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    ^ Nicely on topic for VE Day, as usual. <thumbs-up for perseverance>


    Execution of the Romanov family

    The Russian ImperialRomanov family (Emperor Nicholas II, his wife Empress Alexandra and their five children: Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia, and Alexei) were shot and bayoneted to death[1][2] by communist revolutionaries under Yakov Yurovsky in Yekaterinburg on the night of 16–17 July 1918. Also killed that night were retainers who had accompanied them: notably Eugene Botkin, Anna Demidova, Alexei Trupp and Ivan Kharitonov.[3]The bodies were taken to the Koptyaki forest, where they were stripped and mutilated.[2][4]
    In 1919 the White Army commissioned an investigation but were unable to find the unmarked gravesite. The investigator concluded that the imperial family's remains had been cremated at the mineshaft called Ganina Yama, since evidence of fire was found here.[5][page needed]
    In 1979 and 2007, the remains of the bodies were found in two unmarked graves in a field called Porosenkov Log. DNA analysis confirmed the identity of Romanov family members; the last two children were not identified until found in the second grave in 2007. [6]
    According to the official state version of the USSR, former Tsar Nicholas Romanov, along with members of his family and retinue, was executed by firing squad, by order of the Ural Regional Soviet, due to the threat of the city being occupied by Whites (Czechoslovak Legion).[7][8] Numerous researchers believe the execution was ordered by Vladimir Lenin, Yakov Sverdlov and Felix Dzerzhinsky.
    Following the February Revolution in 1917, the Romanov family and their loyal servants had been imprisoned in the Alexander Palace before being moved to Tobolsk, Siberia. They were next moved to a house in Yekaterinburg, near the Ural Mountains. They were killed in July 1918, allegedly at the express command of Lenin.[9] The Bolsheviks initially announced only Nicholas's death,[10][11] although they were told that "the entire family suffered the same fate as its head."[12] The official press release said that "Nicholas Romanov's wife and son have been sent to a secure place."[12] For over eight years,[13] the Soviet leadership maintained a systematic web of disinformation as to the fate of the family,[14] from claiming in September 1919 that they were murdered by left-wing revolutionaries[15] to denying outright in April 1922 that they were dead.[14]
    The Soviets finally acknowledged the murders in 1926, following the publication in France of a 1919 investigation by a White émigré, but said that the bodies were destroyed and that Lenin's Cabinet was not responsible.[16] The Soviet cover-up of the murders fuelled rumours of survivors.[17] Various Romanov impostors claimed to be one of the children, which drew media attention away from activities of Soviet Russia.[14]From 1938, Josef Stalin suppressed any discussion regarding the fate of the family.[18]
    The burial site was discovered in 1979 by Alexander Avdonin, an amateur sleuth.[19] The Soviet Union did not acknowledge the existence of these remains publicly until 1989, during the glasnost period.[20] The identity of the remains was later confirmed by forensic and DNA analysis and investigation, with the assistance of British experts.
    In 1998, 80 years after the executions, the remains of the Romanov family were reinterred in a state funeral in the Peter and Paul Cathedral in Saint Petersburg.[21] The funeral was not attended by key members of the Russian Orthodox Church, who disputed the authenticity of the remains.[22]
    In 2007, a second, smaller grave, containing the remains of two Romanov children missing from the larger grave, a boy and a girl, was discovered by amateur archaeologists.[19] However, their remains are kept in a state repository pending further DNA tests.[23] The remains of Alexei and a sister have been confirmed by DNA analysis, but the government was allowing the Church to hold Alexei's remains for additional testing. In 2008, after considerable and protracted legal wrangling, the Russian Prosecutor General's office rehabilitated the Romanov family as "victims of political repressions".[24] A criminal case was opened by the post-Soviet government in 1993, but nobody was prosecuted on the basis that the perpetrators were dead.[23]
    Some historians attribute the execution order to the government in Moscow, specifically Sverdlov and Lenin, who wanted to prevent the rescue of the Imperial Family by the approaching Czechoslovak Legion during the ongoing Russian Civil War.[25][26] This is supported by a passage in Leon Trotsky's diary.[27]
    An investigation led by Vladimir Solovyov concluded in 2011 that, despite the opening of state archives in the post-Soviet years, no written document has been found that indicates that either Lenin or Sverdlov instigated the orders; however, they did endorse the executions after they occurred.[28][29][30][31] Other sources argue that Lenin and the central Soviet government had wanted to conduct a trial of the Romanovs, with Trotsky serving as prosecutor, but that the local Ural Soviet, under pressure from Left S-Rs and anarchists, undertook the executions on their own initiative due to the approach of the Czechoslovaks.[32] Lenin had close control over the Romanovs, although he ensured his name was not associated with their fate in any official documents.[33]
    In 1998 President Boris Yeltsin described the killings of the royal family as one of the most shameful chapters in Russian history.[34][35]

    It's VE day.-download-jpeg
    It's VE day.-romanov-execution-919806548-jpg



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execut...Romanov_family

    It's VE day.-screen-shot-2020-05-13-09-a
    Last edited by panama hat; 13-05-2020 at 04:15 AM.

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    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    ^Quite a good contribution to discussion about the roles of Germans/Russian at World War, isn't it ...
    It's really not surprising that somebody with such a nick as you will vehemently demonize the role of Russians in the WW2.
    I talked to a lot of Russians about WWII. But one thing I will never forget:
    "What is worse then getting killed by your enemy (the germans)? Getting killed by your own brothers!
    These are the things that I had to listen to while I was invited to a datscha near Moscow. Talking to my Russian friends makes a lot more sense then the communist BS that OhOh and Klondykes post here on TD.
    Just saw a report the other day about Russians and the covid-19 crisis. One of the women said:"We Russians are used to suffering, we will get over this crisis just like all the others". I guess that summs it up pretty much.

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    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    This is what I demonize OhOh communist BS (just like Neverna political Islam)

    https://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lo...ml#post4101364 (It's VE day.)

    The whole article is Bullshit!

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    It's only what we are seeing nowadays: overwriting the history.

    The history - as generally known - is always written by the victors - in order to fog their not always hilarious way to the victory.

    But who is the victor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    https://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lo...ml#post4101364 (It's VE day.)

    The whole article is Bullshit!
    It's a joke (but not surprising) to get such a comment from a "German"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    victor
    Victor Sheymov, KGB officer who defected from Soviet Union, dies at 73

    Throughout the 1970s, Victor Sheymov rose quickly through the hierarchy of the KGB, the spy agency of the Soviet Union. He was assigned to the Eighth Chief Directorate, perhaps the KGB’s most secretive unit, which handled communications, ciphers and codes.

    By the time he was 32, Mr. Sheymov had reached the rank of major and was in charge of monitoring the KGB’s flow of information from around the world. But he was growing increasingly disenchanted with his employers and with life under the Communist regime, especially after suspecting the KGB of killing one of his friends, who had questioned the Soviet way of life.


    At great risk, Mr. Sheymov decided to reach out to U.S. intelligence officers, finally making a daring escape across the border with his wife and daughter in 1980. It was the CIA’s first successful extraction — or exfiltration, as the agency calls it — of a defector from Soviet soil, and it turned out to be one of the most significant defections of the Cold War.



    Mr. Sheymov, who spent the rest of his life in the United States, died Oct. 18 at his home in Vienna, Va. He was 73.

    After he was brought to the United States, Mr. Sheymov spent a year debriefing intelligence officials about the KGB’s worldwide cryptological network and other secrets.

    “My goal was to inflict as much damage on the communist system as I possibly could,” he told The Washington Post in 1990, when he went public after 10 years in hiding. “The peculiar thing about me was that I was in the inner sanctum of the KGB, so I knew the whole system, including the cipher

    Among other things, Mr. Sheymov disclosed that the KGB hatched a plot to kill the Polish-born Pope John Paul II, who was shot and wounded by a Turkish assailant in 1981.


    “The task was to find out how to get physically close to the pope,” Mr. Sheymov said at a 1990 Washington news conference. “In the KGB slang, it was clearly understood that when you say ‘physically close,’ there was only one reason to get close.”

    He revealed that the KGB assassinated Afghan President Hafizullah Amin in 1979. He said two members of the U.S. State Department were spying for the KGB, and that he knew of at least one mole in the CIA.

    He also warned that the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, built by Soviet workers in the early 1980s, would have so many bugs and listening devices that “you won’t have a single secret in the building.” Several years later, the building was razed, and a new embassy was built by U.S. construction crews.


    Mr. Sheymov received a medal from the CIA and was praised by the federal government for his “valuable contribution to our country and national security.”


    Victor Ivanovich Sheymov was born May 9, 1946, in Moscow. His father was an engineer, his mother a cardiologist.

    He graduated from Bauman Moscow State Technical University, an elite science and engineering college, where he was also a standout athlete. His wife said he was a boxer and skier and held the school record in the 100-meter dash for more than 20 years.

    Mr. Sheymov excelled in mathematics and studied in a program specializing in missile and spacecraft design before joining the KGB in 1971. In Beijing, he solved a long-standing mystery at the Soviet Embassy, concluding that when the building was constructed in the 1950s, the Chinese had installed hidden acoustic conduits that could transmit sound without electronic amplification.


    He was promoted to a sensitive job in the KGB’s top-secret communications and coding branch, helped prepare daily briefings for members of the Politburo and was part of the spy agency’s inner circle.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ff7_story.html

    A hero who helped topple the murderous Soviet machine




    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    It's a joke (but not surprising) to get such a comment from a "German"...
    Who are you quoting with? Are you dense? (Rhetorical question) <insert name of frigid region>






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    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    It's only what we are seeing nowadays: overwriting the history.

    The history - as generally known - is always written by the victors - in order to fog their not always hilarious way to the victory.

    But who is the victor...
    Definitely not the Russian civilians who got slaughtered from both side.
    Definitely not the Russian soldiers who got thrown into battle as cannon fodder.
    Now take a deep breath and think what I'am trying to tell you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    Now take a deep breath and think
    The second part will prove a tad difficult for him

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    A hero who helped topple the murderous Soviet machine
    A "hero"? Who calls a "hero" an officer who deflects and betrays his country? Especially, when he was a "KGB" officer? But once he deflects, that moments he is a "hero".

    Are the deflecting CIA officers also called "hero"?

    The "KGB" what is always derogatively highlighted when speaking about Putin? Never see such case that when speaking about Bush sen. who was a director of CIA (not just a small officer like Putin) to highlight his CIA activity. Or whenever we read about Mike Pompeo, the former CIA director?

    But admitted: there are spy agencies who are just criminal agencies. A there are other spy agencies who make only all for well-being of humans.

    So, anything is possible with the "double standard"...

    (BTW, I thought that it was R.Reagan who "toppled the murderous Soviet machine" - after he put 6 holes in the Oval Office, in-between his afternoon nap...)

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    heh, monsters and parasites celebrating victory over other monsters and parasites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    A "hero"? Who calls a "hero" an officer who deflects and betrays his country? Especially, when he was a "KGB" officer? But once he deflects, that moments he is a "hero".
    If they do it for the good of mankind, in this instance the fall of the communist dictatorship, yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    If they do it for the good of mankind, in this instance the fall of the communist dictatorship, yes
    And who are the ones the only righteous who will decide what is "the good of mankind"?

    Perhaps the righteous Herman should list here also other wars that happened in the last some 100 years not included in his listing, they can be found and copied very easily. Not sure whether just one page would give enough space for that.

    Then, can be seen what is "the good for mankind"...

    BTW, aren't we with the heros off topic about the VE-Day? (Usually, you are very sensitive on that, aren't you?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    And who are the ones the only righteous who will decide what is "the good of mankind"?
    Not the Russians/Soviets nor the communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    BTW, aren't we with the heros off topic about the VE-Day? (Usually, you are very sensitive on that, aren't you?)
    Yup, but you and OhOh don't give a toss about it, so I'll join you in that - it makes a mockery of the threads, but you seem to revel in it. I can see why you enjoy it so much as it takes away any responsibility to stay anywhere on topic and actually discuss THAT topic instead, you just throw your imbecilic thoughts around.



    WEST PAPUA: FORGOTTEN WAR, UNWANTED PEOPLE

    June 1991

    Author
    Susan
    Sands



    Nowhere in the modern world has an armed liberation struggle persisted for so long - nearly 30 years - and with such secrecy, as the West Papuan war of resistance against the military government of Indonesia.
    West Papua is the western half of the island of New Guinea, formerly known as Dutch New Guinea. A 13-year dispute with the Netherlands over whether the former Dutch colony would become an independent state or an Indonesian province culminated in 1962 in its occupation and annexation by force by he Indonesian military and the denial of the right of self-determination to its people. Following Indonesia's farcical Act of "Free" Choice, carried out in 1969 under conditions of extreme duress, West Papua was proclaimed an Indonesian province and renamed Irian Jaya. Through their acquiescence, Western nations assisted in these actions and have continued to support Indonesia's repressive military rule with arms, military support, and World Bank funding.
    The United Nations has given diplomatic support to Indonesia, particularly in the case of the West Papuan takeover, and neighboring countries Papua New Guinea and Australia have followed a policy of appeasement even in the face of the military's worst excesses. Papua New Guinea has been thrust into the role of unwilling participant in an international problem by becoming the recipient of the first refugees in the Melanesian Pacific.
    "We Are All OPM"
    From 1973 until 1975, the year of Papua New Guinea's independence, the Indonesian military stepped up its activity against the West Papuan people Many dispossessed West Papuans joined the Organisasi Papua Merdeka, or Free Papua Movement (OPM), the fighting wing of the resistance. Although Indonesia has consistently maintained that the OPM is not a threat, the might of its army has been deployed since the occupation in a vain attempt to destroy the movement. Villages were destroyed as the army hunted for OPM members and the whole population turned against the invading forces. It became impossible to separate activists from the community; all people, whether villagers of refugees, proclaimed their solidarity: We are all OPM.
    In 1984, after Indonesia deployed widespread military action and seized traditionally owned land for transmigration sites, more than 10,000 West Papuans crossed the border to seek refuge in Papua New Guinea. Indonesia's 1984-1989 transmigration plan called for 5 million people from Java, Madura, and Bali to be moved to the provinces that continue to resist its military occupation (i.e., West Papua, East Timor, Kalimantan, South Moluccas, Sulawesi, and Sumatra). (This policy, along with a more comprehensive history of the conflict, has been widely documented and is summarized most recently by Gault-Williams [1990].)

    Indonesia's deliberate cover-up of events in West Papua continued as the Papua New Guinea government tried to ignore the more than 10,000 refugees camped inside its border
    West Papua: Forgotten War, Unwanted People | Cultural Survival
    Last edited by panama hat; 13-05-2020 at 03:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    it makes a mockery of the threads
    Lot of this going on these days hatter.

    VE day is simply a day to celebrate the end of a war. It is one of many celebrated in countries around the world each year. No matter who started the war or who won, the end of a war is well worth celebrating. War is a pandemic we as a species are historically and in future bound to repeat. Quite easy for the powerful and monied to get a war started so they can become more powerful and richer. Win or lose the war they win at the cost and loss to us little folks who celebrate the end of a war. VE day being just one celebration. These official celebrations are normally done by the winners and rarely done by the losers even though the wee folk of the losers are relieved to be done with it.

    April 2nd is a big celebration in Vietnam. I have been there for a couple of these.

    Not surprised nary a mention much less an official celebration in the US.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    April 2nd is a big celebration in Vietnam. I have been there for a couple of these.
    April 30 ?

    Always thought it to be on 30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    April 30 ?

    Always thought it to be on 30.
    Oops. Sorry you are correct. 30 Apr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Yea, the Brits with help from 100+ other nations including NZ, Mongolia, Costa Rica and the Iroquois Nation in the US . . . alone they could have done sweet fuck all
    (and the Soviet Union, the US, France etc...)
    indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Never heard of it to be honest but apparently it's the day the Brits celebrate giving the hun a damn good thrashing.

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    Oh look, it's reacharound ray my stalker.
    Seems to be becoming a little obsessed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Why? Because it shows that he's German? Does yours show that you're a Dyke or that you want to live in unaccessible areas, therefore making you illegible to comment?
    That's "ineligible".

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