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  1. #76
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    Simon43's Avatar
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    Why don't we forget about pronouns altogether, as is often the case with Thai language.

    If I want to say in Thai 'I want to eat some pussy', then I can say 'Khun Simon yak gin maio noi', and forget about 'pom' for 'I'.

    So Sam Smith is simply referred to as 'Sam Smith', not 'I' or 'h' or 'they'.

    Easy, init?
    Groping women when you're old is fine - everyone thinks you're senile

  2. #77
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Forget the Thai way, Simon.

    Pronouns would just be replaced with other words: Nong Jeff, Ajarn Marilyn, P' Nev, etc.
    Last edited by Neverna; 18-09-2019 at 04:44 PM. Reason: typo
    Nev has style

  3. #78
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    Why not? "White People" aka the caucasian race can be discriminated against. Usually referred to as reverse discrimination. But, it can, and does occur. And no, I'm not going to provide examples.
    Yeah nah, that's not what reverse discrimination means.

    I'm sure you've got plenty of examples of how you, as a white man, have been actively discriminated against and repressed and oppressed by not getting absolutely everything your way though.

  4. #79
    Pedantic bastard
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    Apparently so.

    Say a bunch of triggered, old white guys.
    Well, I am old. Certainly white. And think it is utter bollix. But does that make me "triggered" - what the fuck does that even mean nowadays? Any time anyone thinks something is bollix they are triggered? Another corruption of the word use.

    Which is *exactly* the point here. Language is an agreed form of communication. We agree that certain words mean certain things. Once each of us starts deciding what a word means in a particular context, we are going to be well and truly buggered.

    Now, promulour shall traitwalk to the shittenhosen for a shindiging earlyday dump.

  5. #80
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    Morgan Freeman has a very good take on racism.

    Stop talking about it.

    Asked what he thought about a black history month,he answered. Its American history.

    He once said you stop calling me black and I'll stop calling you white.

    asked if he thought Blacks were disadvantaged he answered I'm living proof we aren't.
    I find it hard to believe he's that stupid.


    You, on the other hand...




    And sure enough, from the wiki page you probably got the rest of your info from, that bit is mysteriously missing...

    Comments on racismIn 2005, Freeman criticized the celebration of Black History Month, saying, "I don't want a black history month. Black history is American history."[68] He opined that the only way to end racism is to stop talking about it, and he noted that there is no "white history month."[68] Freeman once said in an interview with 60 Minutes's Mike Wallace, "I am going to stop calling you a white man and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man."[68][69] Freeman supported the defeated proposal to change the Mississippi state flag, which contains the Confederate battle flag.[70][71] Freeman sparked controversy in 2011 when, on CNN's Piers Morgan Tonight, he accused the Tea Party movement of racism.[72][73][74]


    In reaction to the death of Freddie Gray and the 2015 Baltimore protests, Freeman said he was "absolutely" supportive of the protesters. "That unrest [in Baltimore] has nothing to do with terrorism at all, except the terrorism we suffer from the police. [...] Because of the technology—everybody has a smartphone—now we can see what the police are doing. We can show the world, Look, this is what happened in that situation. So why are so many people dying in police custody? And why are they all black? And why are all the police killing them white? What is that? The police have always said, 'I feared for my safety.' Well, now we know. OK. You feared for your safety while a guy was running away from you, right?"[75]

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Well, I am old. Certainly white. And think it is utter bollix. But does that make me "triggered" - what the fuck does that even mean nowadays? Any time anyone thinks something is bollix they are triggered? Another corruption of the word use.

    Which is *exactly* the point here. Language is an agreed form of communication. We agree that certain words mean certain things. Once each of us starts deciding what a word means in a particular context, we are going to be well and truly buggered.

    Now, promulour shall traitwalk to the shittenhosen for a shindiging earlyday dump.
    I agree.

    Also, language is fluid and moves, particularly English. Many groups have their own discourse type and unique words which non-members of the group might not understand. But, when minority groups demand equality by forcing their discourse upon society generally - that's not how language works; there's no naturally negotiated social evolution, there's political activism. We see that all over the western world - "Me, me, me"; people seem to think they have the right to make demands upon the whole of society - they don't.

    It's normal and fine for folks to change language, it's a form of empowerment within small social groups (lots of studies on this), so using a pro-noun that makes them happy is no big deal, imho, stupid, but lots of things are stupid... The real problem is the political warriors who shout out cliched slogans such as "old white man" and try to put pressure upon the masses to follow small-group conventions.

    As far as the family in the video: morons; child abuse, imho.
    How do I post these pictures???

  7. #82
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    This is how language works - ‘you want what ? get a big black dog up ya’.

  8. #83
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    Many groups have their own discourse type and unique words which non-members of the group might not understand.
    Absolutely - I'm sure some of you old, camp fellas can speak Polari..
    Groping women when you're old is fine - everyone thinks you're senile

  9. #84
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    ^ That's presumably the kind of statement of the bleedin' obvious that he makes a living from.



    The point, obviously, is that in this particular case, to expect someone outside of any group to which you belong to refer to you personally as 'they' is ridiculous.

    And yeah, all that 'triggered' stuff gets really old.

  10. #85
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    Morgan Freeman has a very good take on racism.

    Stop talking about it.

    Asked what he thought about a black history month,he answered. Its American history.

    He once said you stop calling me black and I'll stop calling you white.

    asked if he thought Blacks were disadvantaged he answered I'm living proof we aren't.
    not sure how much of this is complete BS, but i'm very confident at least some of it is....the rest is likely taken out of context.

    post a link, chico.....particularly for the last line of your post.

    whenever you get a chance....i know you've got your hands full with the rehab center.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    not sure how much of this is complete BS, but i'm very confident at least some of it is....the rest is likely taken out of context.
    You are either stupid, or don't want to believe something that is true.There are many Morgan Freeman youtube vids where he says similar things


    Comments on racism

    In 2005, Freeman criticized the celebration of Black History Month, saying, "I don't want a black history month. Black history is American history."[68] He opined that the only way to end racism is to stop talking about it, and he noted that there is no "white history month."[68] Freeman once said in an interview with 60 Minutes's Mike Wallace, "I am going to stop calling you a white man and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man."[68][69] Freeman supported the defeated proposal to change the Mississippi state flag, which contains the Confederatebattle flag.[70][71] Freeman sparked controversy in 2011 when, on CNN's Piers Morgan Tonight, he accused the Tea Party movement of racism.[72][73][74]
    Wiki

  12. #87
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    ^
    context, shit for brains, context....

    WALLACE: Black History Month, you find …


    FREEMAN: Ridiculous.


    WALLACE: Why?


    FREEMAN: You’re going to relegate my history to a month?


    WALLACE: Come on.


    FREEMAN: What do you do with yours? Which month is White History Month? Come on, tell me.


    WALLACE: I’m Jewish.


    FREEMAN: OK. Which month is Jewish History Month?


    WALLACE: There isn’t one.


    FREEMAN: Why not? Do you want one?


    WALLACE: No, no.


    FREEMAN: I don’t either. I don’t want a Black History Month. Black history is American history.


    WALLACE: How are we going to get rid of racism until …?


    FREEMAN: Stop talking about it. I’m going to stop calling you a white man. And I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You’re not going to say, “I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.” Hear what I’m saying?
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mo...history-month/


    i guess we'll have to wait for chico to back up the last line of his post.



    and i hope we can all agree that actors are not the first people we should be looking to for insights and analysis on the complex issue of race.
    Last edited by raycarey; 18-09-2019 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #88
    Pedantic bastard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    "Me, me, me"; people seem to think they have the right to make demands upon the whole of society - they don't.
    This.

  14. #89
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    ^

    OK, i don't know for certain, but i'm fairly confident you're male (not trying to make a joke or anything, i'm just not 100%)..... so let's go with that.

    you identify as male.
    you absolutely want people to refer to you as male.

    but there are a few people in your life....a colleague/ aneighbor/your dentist/whoever...that insist on using female pronouns when referring to you.

    you've told them that you're a male...but for whatever reason, they see you as female....and insist on referring to you as female...despite the fact that it makes you uncomfortable. perhaps you've sent them an email asking them to accept who you are....maybe even sat down with them to explain why you feel they're wrong....but they just won't let it go and refuse to use male pronouns when referring to you.

    they're assholes, right?

    how hard could it be just to refer to you as male....what difference does it make to your neighbor/colleague/dentist?

  15. #90
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Merriam-Webster dictionary adds 'they' as nonbinary pronoun

    Attention grammar snobs: ”they” can officially be used as a singular, nonbinary pronoun. Merriam-Webster, the oldest dictionary publisher in America, officially recognized the usage today, when it added 533 words to its online dictionary.


    The recognition of “they” as a singular, non-gender-specific pronoun comes as its usage grows in popularity, especially among people who identify as neither male nor female. However, these adoptees frequently face critics who claim the usage is not “grammatically correct”.


    Merriam-Webster wrote a pre-emptive clapback on its blog. “We will note that ‘they’ has been in consistent use as a singular pronoun since the late 1300s; that the development of singular ‘they’ mirrors the development of the singular ‘you’ from the plural ‘you’, yet we don’t complain that singular ‘you’ is ungrammatical; and that regardless of what detractors say, nearly everyone uses the singular ‘they’ in casual conversation and often in formal writing.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...binary-pronoun

  16. #91
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    So...where does Hey You fit into this stimulating study and discussion?

  17. #92
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    ...Merriam-Webster, the oldest dictionary publisher in America


    That presumably is American language, not English language. What they want to do in the US with their bastardised form of English is up to them...
    Groping women when you're old is fine - everyone thinks you're senile

  18. #93
    Hit me wif da Ching Ching
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    I would not mind remembering to use They, Them Their for a non-binary person if that was their preference. I see no reason to cause avoidable offence to a person who genuinely identifies as non-binary.

    However, the idea that failing to use a preferred pronoun should be criminalised, as was mooted with the Canadian C16 legislation, is utterly berserk left-wing nazi-ism.

    I also think non-binary people should nominate a preferred binary gender which they would prefer to go by in situations where non-binary pronoun preference is impractical to apply.

  19. #94
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    I also think non-binary people should nominate a preferred binary gender which they would prefer to go by in situations where non-binary pronoun preference is impractical to apply.


    How would they demonstrate their preference?

    EDIT: I'm using 'they' and 'their' there to mean 'more than one person' or 'generally', just to avoid confusion.

  20. #95
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    was their preference
    All for addressing folk as they preferred to be addressed. But, to make such an "issue" of it? Publicity stunt. Don't know of this "they" singer smith but does they have an album coming out or recently released?

  21. #96
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    does they have an album coming out?
    Blimey.

    Inanimate objects are doing this now?

    Things really are getting complicated.

  22. #97
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    For any linguists ..
    A different way to see the world.

    A great article on the subject which makes a lot of sense.
    https://www.wired.com/story/actually...nge-a-culture/

  23. #98
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    The problem seems to lie in English as it has yet to adapt a more comfortable term for third-gendered people. For example, in Samoa you have fa'afafine, who are people who do not identify as male, although they most certainly have been born as males. The Polynesians do not seem to have much difficulty accepting those who identify as non-binary.
    Pues, aquí estamos.

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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    I also think non-binary people should nominate a preferred binary gender which they would
    ..... be required, to have their chosen pronoun, tattooed on their forehead in large letters and in multiple languages.

    Just so we all know their choice, as would be embarrassed if we were to offend 'it".
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by happynz View Post
    The problem seems to lie in English as it has yet to adapt a more comfortable term for third-gendered peopl
    The English have had for centuries and do utilise today, many words to utilise for non specific gender people,

    Unfortunately the non specific gender people aren't too keen on many of them.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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