Thread: Disappearing Souls: A Papal Mystery!

Originally Posted by tomcat

There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls

This is progress. Souls can vanish at death. We are halfway there. If the church can face the possibility that virtuous souls also disappear up the chimney of nothingness when their ember finally extinguishes itself then they will have a made a giant philosophical leap forward.

I like watching the church trying to keep up with the moral zetgeist while trying not to make itself look more silly than it has to.

I sold mines to that feller down at the crossroads

^You can get it re-souled by the river baptist under saphan taksin most weekdays.

Or failing that you can get an illegal copy installed by the guy at Pantip plaza but it may have some viruses or trojans that could cause undefined behaviour.

Ahhhh....souls.
Like opinions, everyone's got one or so I'm told.

^You are thinking of arseholes gazza.

The only difference being that not everyone is entitled to an arsehole!

Worry not the hi-so soul trains on the way with so velly 70s moves

Ah soul resleeving

The cheap version is the insertion of a leg of ham and the bone is removed

Originally Posted by tomcat

he asked the Pope where "bad souls" go and where they are punished. The journalist is an avowed atheist.
"Souls are not punished," the Pope was quoted as saying in the Repubblica piece. "Those who repent obtain God's forgiveness and go among the ranks of those who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot be forgiven disappear. There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

In fairness, we have to realise that the nonagenerian journalist makes no notes during his interviews and writes his impressions of his recollection and interpretation afterwards, thus his "quotes" of Papa are not to be taken as verbatim.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

In fairness

...there is no fairness in religion....

I wasn't talking of religion. I was making a comment on journalsm and your OP, which may be slightly unfair considering what I said about the journalist.

...so, the wizened journo misremembered, misquoted and misrepresented the Whore of Rome's musings then...or perhaps you're offering a red herring for breakfast...

No, Tomasina, just saying. The Vatican denies the Pope said any such thing and cites the wizened journo's previous interviews with Popes where he misquoted and misconstrued (deliberately, it's supposed, as he is a famous atheist and also quite famously doesn't take notes but chooses to retrospectively write his impressions) whatever the Pope said, to be more in line with his atheist views.
One should be aware of the possibilities of a report not having quite the amount of veracity as one hopes.
In fairness.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

One should be aware of the possibilities of a report not having quite the amount of veracity as one hopes.

...I suppose that also applies to forum posts...

Stating the obvious.
Last word over to you 'Sina.

And in possibly related news

Vatican to hold exorcist training course after 'rise in possessions'

Critics warn exorcism can be a form of spiritual abuse as priests report jump in possession claims
The Vatican is to hold a training course for priests in exorcism next month amid claims that demands for deliverance from demonic possession have greatly increased across the the world.


The Vatican-backed International Association of Exorcists, which represents more than 200 Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox priests, said the increase represented a “pastoral emergency”.


According to a priest from Sicily, the number of people in Italy claiming to be possessed had tripled to 500,000 a year, and an Irish priest has said demand for exorcisms has “risen exponentially”.


Last year, the Christian thinktank Theos reported that exorcisms were a “booming industry” in the UK, particularly among Pentecostal churches.


But some warn that “deliverance ministry” can be a form of spiritual abuse. Critics also say LGBT people and those with mental health issues are targeted for deliverance in the belief that their sexuality or psychiatric problems are the result of demonic possession.


The Vatican training course, which will be held at the Pontifical Athenaeum Regina Apostolorum in Rome between 16-21 April, will focus on exorcism and the prayer of liberation, a prayer commonly used for deliverance from possession.


“The fight against the evil one started at the origin of the world, and is destined to last until the end of the world,” Fr Cesare Truqui, one of the speakers, told Vatican News.


“But today we are at a stage crucial in history: many Christians no longer believe in [the devil’s] existence, few exorcists are appointed and there are no more young priests willing to learn the doctrine and practice of liberation of souls.”


Fr Benigno Palilla, an exorcist from Sicily who reported a tripling of demonic possession cases on the island, acknowledged the issue was controversial, but added: “The demoniacs … suffer a lot.”

Training in deliverance was essential, he told Vatican Radio. “A self-taught exorcist certainly makes errors. I will say more: it would also take a period of apprenticeship, as happens for many professionals.”


In Ireland, Fr Pat Collins said he had been inundated, almost daily, with people seeking help to deal with what they believed to be demonic possession and other evil, and called for more training in exorcism.


“It’s only in recent years that the demand has risen exponentially,” he told the Irish Catholic. “What I’m finding out desperately, is people who in their own minds believe – rightly or wrongly – that they’re afflicted by an evil spirit.


“I think in many cases they wrongly think it, but when they turn to the church, the church doesn’t know what to do with them.”


Pope Francis has said if a priest becomes aware of “genuine spiritual disturbances … he must not hesitate to refer the issue to those who, in the diocese, are charged with this delicate and necessary ministry, namely, exorcists”.


The Church of England offers guidelines on deliverance which say that for some people “going through times of suffering and anxiety, or when distressed by what seem to be continuing experiences of evil within or around them … it may be right to ask for God’s saving help through the church’s deliverance ministry”.


The guidelines, which were updated in 2012, say caution must be exercised and “the ministry of exorcism and deliverance may only be exercised by a priest authorised by the diocesan bishop”.


Such priests should be trained in deliverance and should not minister alone. They should be covered by adequate insurance, the document says.


“Language, body language and touch should be courteous and considerate … No one should receive ministry against their will.”


The guidelines say doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists should be consulted where appropriate, and that deliverance should be followed up with continuing pastoral care and “should be done with a minimum of publicity”.


According to Anne Richards, the C of E’s national adviser on such issues: “Exorcism in a technical sense is incredibly rare. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a case that’s been authorised.”


Each of the C of E’s 42 dioceses has at least one person experienced and trained in deliverance, she said.


The church was “extremely concerned” that deliverance and healing should be undertaken in collaboration with professionals, such as doctors, and in the context of good safeguarding practice, she said.


But, she added, “I accept in some cases people get together and do something ad hoc. It shouldn’t happen – it needs to be a proper process.”


According to Christianity and Mental Health, a report by Theos, demand in the UK is being partly “driven by immigrant communities and Pentecostal churches which are very open about their exorcism services”.


Ben Ryan, its author, said charismatic and Pentecostal churches, particularly in areas with large west African communities, were advertising “healings” and exorcism outside their premises.


But, he said, “some Christians are sometimes treating mental health issues as if everything is spiritual. So if someone tells a church leader they are suffering from depression, sometimes the response is that everything can be treated with prayer. The extreme end of that is exorcism.”


The report quoted one chaplain, who said he had “never seen anything I would say that looked like demonic possession, but I’ve seen plenty of people who have been told that’s what they’re experiencing by other Christians”.


Priests in the US have also reported a growing demand for exorcisms in recent years.


The shortage of clergy trained in exorcism has led to a growing number of independent operators in Europe, who will rid people and properties of demons for up to €500 a time, according to the Economist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orcism-priests

The whole thing stinks if you ask me.

Originally Posted by tomcat

There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Well, thank god!

Originally Posted by Cujo

Vatican to hold exorcist training course after 'rise in possessions'

This is a great angle for the church to regain the initiative from the religion-sledgers!

They should hold screenings of The Exorcist in St Peter's Square with the pope watching from his balcony eating popcorn.

Damien Karras could be the poster boy of the biggest religious comeback since the totally awesome rising from the dead on the 3rd day!

They could sell crucifixes covered in menstrual blood as part of merchandising revenue.

...or they could just pack it in and turn the Vatican into the museum it deserves to be...

Originally Posted by tomcat

...or they could just pack it in and turn the Vatican into the museum it deserves to be...

It already is a museum, or part of it anyway. I've been inside it.

Originally Posted by Neverna

part of it anyway

...I suggest all of it; every particle of holy dust and square of rust-stained marble...maybe sell off bits of it to pay reparations to the millions the church has wronged over millennia...