Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    10,529

    Disappearing Souls: A Papal Mystery!

    ...where is Hitler's soul? Stalin's? Genghis Khan's?...all vanishing into the ether of Catholic oblivion: so, only beerless Heaven remains for the Righteous...an Easter story...

    (BBC) The Vatican has denied that Pope Francis told a well-known Italian journalist that "there is no hell".

    The quote came in an article in Italy's La Repubblica daily. But the Vatican said "no quotations" in the article "should be considered as a faithful transcription" of the Pope's words.

    The Vatican said the article was based on a private meeting the Pope had with the daily's founder, Eugenio Scalfari.
    Catholic Church doctrine affirms the existence of hell and its eternity.
    The souls of sinners descend into hell, where they suffer "eternal fire", the Catholic catechism states.
    However, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the most senior Catholic in England and Wales, said "there's nowhere in Catholic teaching that actually says any one person is in hell".
    He told the BBC that the Pope was apparently exploring "the imagery of hell - fire and brimstone and all of that".
    "That's never been part of Catholic teaching, it's been part of Catholic iconography, part of Christian iconography," he said.

    According to Scalfari's article on Thursday, he asked the Pope where "bad souls" go and where they are punished. The journalist is an avowed atheist.
    "Souls are not punished," the Pope was quoted as saying in the Repubblica piece. "Those who repent obtain God's forgiveness and go among the ranks of those who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot be forgiven disappear. There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
    The Vatican said it had not been an interview, but a private meeting on the occasion of Easter, and Scalfari's article "is the fruit of his reconstruction".
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  2. #2
    How Dare You!!
    Looper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:52 AM
    Posts
    12,129
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls
    This is progress. Souls can vanish at death. We are halfway there. If the church can face the possibility that virtuous souls also disappear up the chimney of nothingness when their ember finally extinguishes itself then they will have a made a giant philosophical leap forward.

    I like watching the church trying to keep up with the moral zetgeist while trying not to make itself look more silly than it has to.

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 11:28 AM
    Location
    across the street
    Posts
    4,109
    I sold mines to that feller down at the crossroads

  4. #4
    How Dare You!!
    Looper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:52 AM
    Posts
    12,129
    ^You can get it re-souled by the river baptist under saphan taksin most weekdays.

    Or failing that you can get an illegal copy installed by the guy at Pantip plaza but it may have some viruses or trojans that could cause undefined behaviour.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat
    Gazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Wat Thafookhisit near to Wat Chamakhorlit
    Posts
    2,306
    Ahhhh....souls.
    Like opinions, everyone's got one or so I'm told.

  6. #6
    How Dare You!!
    Looper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:52 AM
    Posts
    12,129
    ^You are thinking of arseholes gazza.

    The only difference being that not everyone is entitled to an arsehole!

  7. #7
    POTUS HOCUS
    david44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Online
    12-10-2019 @ 11:14 AM
    Location
    Inner Wrongholia
    Posts
    13,668
    Worry not the hi-so soul trains on the way with so velly 70s moves


  8. #8
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:43 AM
    Location
    Heidleberg
    Posts
    21,787
    Ah soul resleeving

    The cheap version is the insertion of a leg of ham and the bone is removed

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,837
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    he asked the Pope where "bad souls" go and where they are punished. The journalist is an avowed atheist.
    "Souls are not punished," the Pope was quoted as saying in the Repubblica piece. "Those who repent obtain God's forgiveness and go among the ranks of those who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot be forgiven disappear. There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
    In fairness, we have to realise that the nonagenerian journalist makes no notes during his interviews and writes his impressions of his recollection and interpretation afterwards, thus his "quotes" of Papa are not to be taken as verbatim.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    10,529
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    In fairness
    ...there is no fairness in religion....

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,837
    I wasn't talking of religion. I was making a comment on journalsm and your OP, which may be slightly unfair considering what I said about the journalist.

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    10,529
    ...so, the wizened journo misremembered, misquoted and misrepresented the Whore of Rome's musings then...or perhaps you're offering a red herring for breakfast...

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,837
    No, Tomasina, just saying. The Vatican denies the Pope said any such thing and cites the wizened journo's previous interviews with Popes where he misquoted and misconstrued (deliberately, it's supposed, as he is a famous atheist and also quite famously doesn't take notes but chooses to retrospectively write his impressions) whatever the Pope said, to be more in line with his atheist views.
    One should be aware of the possibilities of a report not having quite the amount of veracity as one hopes.
    In fairness.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    10,529
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    One should be aware of the possibilities of a report not having quite the amount of veracity as one hopes.
    ...I suppose that also applies to forum posts...

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,837
    Stating the obvious.
    Last word over to you 'Sina.

  16. #16
    En route
    Cujo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    Today @ 09:01 AM
    Location
    Reality.
    Posts
    28,687
    And in possibly related news

    Vatican to hold exorcist training course after 'rise in possessions'

    Critics warn exorcism can be a form of spiritual abuse as priests report jump in possession claims
    The Vatican is to hold a training course for priests in exorcism next month amid claims that demands for deliverance from demonic possession have greatly increased across the the world.


    The Vatican-backed International Association of Exorcists, which represents more than 200 Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox priests, said the increase represented a “pastoral emergency”.


    According to a priest from Sicily, the number of people in Italy claiming to be possessed had tripled to 500,000 a year, and an Irish priest has said demand for exorcisms has “risen exponentially”.


    Last year, the Christian thinktank Theos reported that exorcisms were a “booming industry” in the UK, particularly among Pentecostal churches.


    But some warn that “deliverance ministry” can be a form of spiritual abuse. Critics also say LGBT people and those with mental health issues are targeted for deliverance in the belief that their sexuality or psychiatric problems are the result of demonic possession.


    The Vatican training course, which will be held at the Pontifical Athenaeum Regina Apostolorum in Rome between 16-21 April, will focus on exorcism and the prayer of liberation, a prayer commonly used for deliverance from possession.


    “The fight against the evil one started at the origin of the world, and is destined to last until the end of the world,” Fr Cesare Truqui, one of the speakers, told Vatican News.


    “But today we are at a stage crucial in history: many Christians no longer believe in [the devil’s] existence, few exorcists are appointed and there are no more young priests willing to learn the doctrine and practice of liberation of souls.”


    Fr Benigno Palilla, an exorcist from Sicily who reported a tripling of demonic possession cases on the island, acknowledged the issue was controversial, but added: “The demoniacs … suffer a lot.”

    Training in deliverance was essential, he told Vatican Radio. “A self-taught exorcist certainly makes errors. I will say more: it would also take a period of apprenticeship, as happens for many professionals.”


    In Ireland, Fr Pat Collins said he had been inundated, almost daily, with people seeking help to deal with what they believed to be demonic possession and other evil, and called for more training in exorcism.


    “It’s only in recent years that the demand has risen exponentially,” he told the Irish Catholic. “What I’m finding out desperately, is people who in their own minds believe – rightly or wrongly – that they’re afflicted by an evil spirit.


    “I think in many cases they wrongly think it, but when they turn to the church, the church doesn’t know what to do with them.”


    Pope Francis has said if a priest becomes aware of “genuine spiritual disturbances … he must not hesitate to refer the issue to those who, in the diocese, are charged with this delicate and necessary ministry, namely, exorcists”.


    The Church of England offers guidelines on deliverance which say that for some people “going through times of suffering and anxiety, or when distressed by what seem to be continuing experiences of evil within or around them … it may be right to ask for God’s saving help through the church’s deliverance ministry”.


    The guidelines, which were updated in 2012, say caution must be exercised and “the ministry of exorcism and deliverance may only be exercised by a priest authorised by the diocesan bishop”.


    Such priests should be trained in deliverance and should not minister alone. They should be covered by adequate insurance, the document says.


    “Language, body language and touch should be courteous and considerate … No one should receive ministry against their will.”


    The guidelines say doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists should be consulted where appropriate, and that deliverance should be followed up with continuing pastoral care and “should be done with a minimum of publicity”.


    According to Anne Richards, the C of E’s national adviser on such issues: “Exorcism in a technical sense is incredibly rare. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a case that’s been authorised.”


    Each of the C of E’s 42 dioceses has at least one person experienced and trained in deliverance, she said.


    The church was “extremely concerned” that deliverance and healing should be undertaken in collaboration with professionals, such as doctors, and in the context of good safeguarding practice, she said.


    But, she added, “I accept in some cases people get together and do something ad hoc. It shouldn’t happen – it needs to be a proper process.”


    According to Christianity and Mental Health, a report by Theos, demand in the UK is being partly “driven by immigrant communities and Pentecostal churches which are very open about their exorcism services”.


    Ben Ryan, its author, said charismatic and Pentecostal churches, particularly in areas with large west African communities, were advertising “healings” and exorcism outside their premises.


    But, he said, “some Christians are sometimes treating mental health issues as if everything is spiritual. So if someone tells a church leader they are suffering from depression, sometimes the response is that everything can be treated with prayer. The extreme end of that is exorcism.”


    The report quoted one chaplain, who said he had “never seen anything I would say that looked like demonic possession, but I’ve seen plenty of people who have been told that’s what they’re experiencing by other Christians”.


    Priests in the US have also reported a growing demand for exorcisms in recent years.


    The shortage of clergy trained in exorcism has led to a growing number of independent operators in Europe, who will rid people and properties of demons for up to €500 a time, according to the Economist.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orcism-priests

    The whole thing stinks if you ask me.

  17. #17
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Last Online
    13-09-2019 @ 09:14 AM
    Location
    Wherever the wind takes me
    Posts
    1,730
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    There is no hell - there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
    Well, thank god!

  18. #18
    How Dare You!!
    Looper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:52 AM
    Posts
    12,129
    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Vatican to hold exorcist training course after 'rise in possessions'
    This is a great angle for the church to regain the initiative from the religion-sledgers!

    They should hold screenings of The Exorcist in St Peter's Square with the pope watching from his balcony eating popcorn.

    Damien Karras could be the poster boy of the biggest religious comeback since the totally awesome rising from the dead on the 3rd day!

    They could sell crucifixes covered in menstrual blood as part of merchandising revenue.

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    10,529
    ...or they could just pack it in and turn the Vatican into the museum it deserves to be...

  20. #20
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Behind a rhododendron bush
    Posts
    17,994
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...or they could just pack it in and turn the Vatican into the museum it deserves to be...
    It already is a museum, or part of it anyway. I've been inside it.

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    10,529
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    part of it anyway
    ...I suggest all of it; every particle of holy dust and square of rust-stained marble...maybe sell off bits of it to pay reparations to the millions the church has wronged over millennia...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •