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  1. #51
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    My apologies bitter boy. Unlike you I have a life. Keep up the paranoia chasing those shadows while I'm gone, there's a good doggie.

  2. #52
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    ^ Very profound...When are you leaving, oh wise one?...


    Heh...

  3. #53
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    I'm agnostic - more scientific minded, but I am open minded to the possibility of a creator... although science tells us the universe sprang into existence from nothing, therefore negating the need for a 'God'...

    I think being closed minded and utterly believing in the non-existence of an all mighty power, is almost as blinkered as utterly believing in a creator...

    Even my man, Richard Dawkins, doesn't totally exclude the possibility of a God... just extraordinarily unlikely given the current evidence....

  4. #54
    A Cockless Wonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo
    I'm not saying that science is a belief system, but that you need belief in science to carry it out.
    Not the same sense of the word belief.

    Belief based on rational observation and reasoning is not the same as belief based entirely on faith and no evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983
    but I am open minded to the possibility of a creator
    The anthropomorphic deities of historical religion seem unlikely but the moral trajectory of human behaviour is curious.

    Why do we seem to be moving in a direction of moral enlightenment?

    As the centuries pass we refine our sense of how to treat each other and what is morally sound behaviour. Were the rules of morality hanging in the ether waiting to be discovered like the rules of mathematics and physics?

    Or are they just a result and function of the particular evolved behavioural nature of the creature pondering the nature of the rules?

  5. #55
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    ^
    We further refine what was purported to be revealed to the goat herders in Israel.

    The initial descriptions of Jesus highlighted a man of 5ft tall hunch back - balding with the remaining locks unkempt. - a few writers later he was 6ft fair skin blah blah blah

    A lot of twaddle the whole lot of it

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Why do we seem to be moving in a direction of moral enlightenment?
    Are you taking the piss bro? we are heading down the path of hedonistic, selfish, consumerism... to the detriment of our planet and with total disregard and contempt for our fellow man.

    Granted, we may seem more civilized than generations long gone, but we still are the most dangerous and in-compassionate species on earth...

    The disease that is humanity has only a short time to live, before we destroy ourselves, or are laid waste by any number of natural, or extraterrestrial disasters..

    Amen.. lol

  7. #57
    god
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    without the collective power of working for a higher purpose mankind would never have had the motivation or drive to engineer huge irrigation works to control famine, or bring peace through the rule of law, both of which were prerequisites to the development of societies and all the benefits mankind has reaped from that stability.
    China does quite well without religion as a goad, so does Russia.

  8. #58
    god
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    .Science is most definitely not a belief system, but a method of investigation.
    I'm not saying that science is a belief system, but that you need belief in science to carry it out.
    Not at all. You need curiosity and a desire to discern, understand and to know the observable.

  9. #59
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    Communism is Religion.

    It is the focus, the narrative, the doctrine... it is the intersubjective.

    In the name of Communism the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increase crop production.

    In the name of God the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increased crop production.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Communism is Religion
    .
    Without a deity?
    It is the focus, the narrative, the doctrine... it is the intersubjective.

    In the name of Communism the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increase crop production.
    Dunno about that.
    For the people, of the people and by the people is not the same as worshipping a nebulous deity or sky fairy and acting on its behest.

    In the name of God the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increased crop production.
    Don't be silly.

  11. #61
    A Cockless Wonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983
    Are you taking the piss bro? we are heading down the path of hedonistic, selfish, consumerism... to the detriment of our planet and with total disregard and contempt for our fellow man.
    Yes I know it feels that way when you read the news. But by any genuine objective metric civilisation is getting less violent as time goes on (as a percentage of population) and improving ourselves in a host of other ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983
    Granted, we may seem more civilized than generations long gone
    We really are more civilised. History is marked by moral strides forwards such as the abolition of slavery, the spread of democracy, the emancipation of minority groups who have been victimised throughout history and the expanding circle of empathy for other races and cultures (a political notion started by Christianity - although it got a bit lucky just happening to be in the right place at the right time i.e. the Roman Empire in about 100AD with its need for inter-ethnic cooperation across an expanding constituency).

    Anyway what I am basically saying is that it's all good bro!

    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983
    The disease that is humanity has only a short time to live, before we destroy ourselves, or are laid waste by any number of natural, or extraterrestrial disasters..
    I think there is a good chance we will get off the planet long before any apocalypse and hopefully take over the galaxy and then universe.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Communism is Religion
    .
    Without a deity?
    It is the focus, the narrative, the doctrine... it is the intersubjective.

    In the name of Communism the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increase crop production.
    Dunno about that.
    For the people, of the people and by the people is not the same as worshipping a nebulous deity or sky fairy and acting on its behest.

    In the name of God the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increased crop production.
    Don't be silly.
    You're paraphrasing Lincoln when considering Communism... you talk a lot of tosh.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    You're paraphrasing Lincoln when considering Communism...
    Why not?

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo
    Communism is Religion.

    It is the focus, the narrative, the doctrine... it is the intersubjective.

    In the name of Communism the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increase crop production.

    In the name of God the collective built the dam, reduced flooding and increased crop production.
    Complete drunken poppycock as usual.
    Drinking white spirit or paint thinners, or even moonshine in the middle east will do that to you Neo.

  15. #65
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    Errr, Neo's not stationed in Hafr Al Batin. Last I checked his HQ was UAE. Why does anyone call or consider that literal and liberal oasis, "the dunes??"

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick View Post
    Errr, Neo's not stationed in Hafr Al Batin. Last I checked his HQ was UAE. Why does anyone call or consider that literal and liberal oasis, "the dunes??"
    Yup HQ is Dubai.. Currently in Jeddah for the week, then Doha for a couple of weeks.
    Thirsty work this time of year so always good to get back home on the weekends.

    Cheers

  17. #67
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    Well, ya kinda' fooked up there, Neo.

    Ramadamalinglong blows the hardest in Saudi.

    I'm right across the desert and up the mountain from ya (beyond Makkah)

    Almost came into Jeddah by ambulance today. Colleague took a digger at work, had a seizure and broke his fuckin' vertebrae in three places.

    When he came to (in the first of two ERs) he was barking about wanting the Inter. Hosp. in Jeddah and there's me going:

    "You broke your fuckin' back mate! We can't risk that ride!"

  18. #68
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    I doubt we would be where we are today without religion. It has unified people into having a single purpose whether it was to build stonehenge or the great cathedrals. Much of the early education of people and understanding of sciences were carried out in religious institutions.It has also given people a form of morality to follow a central point to focus on in regard to their treatment of others, not always for good, unfortunately. Nobody would dispute abuses of this religious power but most of what we are today has evolved from this religious morality. Most laws started as religious laws which evolved into many of the statutes we have today together with early democracies from the Greeks on. In saying this there have been many good men who's egalitarian ideals have advanced society William Wilberforce comes to mind. A Quaker if my memory serves me well. However many of these men I would argue based their belief in human rights on their own view of their religion. Society is slowly advancing and humanists now have taken the moral lead over religious institutions. We are gradually gaining more acceptance of minorities and in relatively short periods of time as we become better educated and traveled. We now have women priests and pastors in some churches an idea unthinkable not too many years ago. Hopefully Islam will follow this path as its adherents slowly get better educated although i fear that is decades away.
    I once read a quote on a desk calendar over 30 years ago that has always stood out in my mind.
    "If God did not exist it would be necessary for man to invent one".

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    e really are more civilised. History is marked by moral strides forwards such as the abolition of slavery, the spread of democracy, the emancipation of minority groups who have been victimised throughout history and the expanding circle of empathy for other races and cultures (a political notion started by Christianity - although it got a bit lucky just happening to be in the right place at the right time i.e. the Roman Empire in about 100AD with its need for inter-ethnic cooperation across an expanding constituency). Anyway what I am basically saying is that it's all good bro!
    Points taken... in an absolute sense, yes that's correct..

    However, given our exponential increase in technology and political correctness, I think in some respects we have devolved - not only in light of recent terrorist attacks, but a multitude of atrocities committed against people (chemical attacks in Syria on children, ethnic cleansing in Burma, stoning to death in parts of Africa, Mao killed 40 million of his own Chinese people, dropping of the atomic bomb, etc, etc)...

    Too many to mention... Yes, we are compelled to attempt to leave this planet and colonize other regions - or face certain destruction..
    let's hope we don't fuck-up other planets/civilizations in the process...

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow
    If God did not exist it would be necessary for man to invent one".
    ... which is exactly what happened.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick
    Errr, Neo's not stationed in Hafr Al Batin. Last I checked his HQ was UAE. Why does anyone call or consider that literal and liberal oasis, "the dunes??"
    Nothing wrong with my geography. Just got back from a stint there myself.

    Thanks for the red repo Neo. Your limited range of insults must be affecting the impact of your reds.

  22. #72
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    Sigh...

  23. #73
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    indeed...

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui View Post
    Nothing wrong with my geography. Just got back from a stint there myself.
    Then,
    Quote Originally Posted by hick View Post
    Why does anyone call or consider that literal and liberal oasis, "the dunes??"
    ..or speak as if peeps stationed in UAE are imbibing in homemade hooch?

    Who would?

  25. #75
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    Sorry to hear about your workmate Hick... that's him out of the game then.
    Was the seizure induced by heat and dehydration..?

    Everyone in the workshop here was wobbling about yesterday afternoon, myself included. They take it a lot more seriously here being as this is where Allah lives and all that and I certainly don't want to end up in a Saudi nick for the duration.

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