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  1. #201
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    the cyber-truck thing was legend, it has the mark of a future failure pet project

    but I am sure a few loons will buy them,

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    A failing company with a share value higher than Ford and Chrysler combined a few days ago.

    It recently dropped a little because Wall Street again is incapable of appreciating the new pickup/Cybertruck presented.
    that's usually the trademark of frauds, I wouldn't rely too much on prices alone to be a mark of success

    TELSA is a fragile company, and so is SPACE X, they could both crash in a NY minute if Wallstreet lose faith in them for whatever reason. See how big solid corporation have gone bust overnight over minor financial scandals

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    that's usually the trademark of frauds, I wouldn't rely too much on prices alone to be a mark of success

    TELSA is a fragile company, and so is SPACE X, they could both crash in a NY minute if Wallstreet lose faith in them for whatever reason. See how big solid corporation have gone bust overnight over minor financial scandals

    They can't touch SpaceX because it is not a public traded company.

    The narrative that Tesla is about to go bankrupt is age old. Meanwhile they expand production at an astonishing rate.

    Specialists who have dismantled production cars came to the conclusion that their profit per sold car is massive and their sales keep increasing. Of course their expansion costs money.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

  4. #204
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    Private Equity paying for TELSA is also run by Wallstreet bankers, it's not listed, but still being financed by the same people

    see what happened to WeWork, untouchable a few months ago, worth 50b last year, only 4b this year

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    A failing company with a share value higher than Ford and Chrysler combined a few days ago.

    It recently dropped a little because Wall Street again is incapable of appreciating the new pickup/Cybertruck presented.
    Its called a bubble. Its a company in reverse. It takes investors money, builds cars for $1 and sells them for 80 cents. As Butterfly said, its WeWork on wheels.

    Musk's companies are all designed to be stock market pumps and tax credit harvesters. Even with a total monopoly in the sector, and a monopoly on the tax credit harvesting, the company hasn't had a profitable quarter.

    The cocksucking peice of shit faked a buyout offer on Twitter. Any other CEO would be in jail.

    But he's the globalists techno mascot. So they let him get away with anything.

    This podcast comments on the ongoing fraud that is Elon Musk. Fast forward to 5:50


  6. #206
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    Mark Spiegel, claim to fame. Twitter poster..

    So much anger, I give you one week to 10 days until you are jailed.

  7. #207
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    That's shit, but that's real shit...
    I'd like to argue but after just a few moments of thinking I've got it.

  8. #208
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    Development of the Raptor engine is proceeding well. Raptor Serial Number 17 is close to be shipped to their test site McGregor.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1205676667705757696

    Christmas time in Hawthorne


    They had 2 test stands that fire the Raptor engine horizontal. Seems the engines did not really like it and they have now converted another test stand to be able to fire them vertical.

    The old reworked test stand

  9. #209
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    Work on Starship continues.

    They are searching for the minimum viable production methods because the aim is to mass produce them. To build a self sustaining Mars settlement they will need to send thousands of them to Mars every 2 years.

    They are testing tank builds. The first test tank was tested to failure and failed at 7.1 bar. That would be good enough to build a first test Starship but not good enough for a reliable manned version.

    SpaceX - On to Mars-starship-boca-chica-011020-nasaspaceflight-bocachicagal

    So they built a new one. It took them just a few days.
    SpaceX - On to Mars-epuyj80w4aekhpl-jpg

    Tested to failue again but this time at 8.5 bar, passing the value for NASA manrated vehicles. They are going for manrated from the beginning. The vehicle at least. It will take time to test and built the life support systems. Also doubtful that the first one will be able to come back from orbit intact. Expect to have more failures on the way.

    https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/...67293197488129

    Short twitter video, can not be linked directly.

    They are now beginning to build the

  10. #210
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    The SpaceX program to develop and build a low cost revolutionary vehicle that can safely get people to Mars continues.

    This is SN1 which was supposed to do a hot fire of a Raptor engine in the next days.



    They have already started building Starship SN2, using improved welding techniques.

    They also keep building more facilities to speed up building more and more advanced Starships.

  11. #211
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    Some rings with new improved welding.

  12. #212
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    This is an estimate on how much of the next Starship is already built. Displayed very well, the colored parts are what has been built.

    The diagram is fan made, not official by SpaceX but very interesting.



    I am not in full agreement though. I believe that nose cone will not be used for SN2. I also don't agree with the placement of that small round tank.

  13. #213
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    They have built a new tank with an improved version of the failed component and tested it.



    First they tested the tank with water to see if it is tight. Then they filled it with liquid nitrogen and pressurized it to the limits it needs to withstand. You see the tank and tankdome frosted over from the liquid nitrogen. At the same time, barely visible under the tank they pressed with a heavy hydraulic press at the point where one engine would be firing in flight, simulating flight conditions. This time the test was successful, the tank survived.

    They are now assembling a full stack SN3 with methane and LOX tank. If it goes through pressure tests they will mount 3 engines and do at least a static fire. Maybe a small hop.

    If this goes well they will build SN4 which they hope can do a bigger flight up to 20km. They are going to increase build speed and build quality with every new ship.

  14. #214
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    Serial Number 3 is ready and put on a test stand. Both test stand and SN3 are much more sophisticated than before.

    SN3 on the move to the launch site. They seem to chose early morning fog for transfers. See the cars for size comparison. This is not small. It is only the engine section of the upper stage.

    I make a statement. I am optimistic this will not blow up in pressure testing like the SN1 did. The plan is first pressure testing with applying pressure through hydraulic rams to simulate 3 Raptor engines firing. Next tank tests. Then installing 3 Raptor engines. Test fire of the engines. One or more short flights up to 150m. That's the limit they have FAA approval for.

    Higher flights with complex maneuvers will be the next vehicle SN4, assuming SN3 test go right. Many components of SN4 are already built. Expect SN4 finished late April, unless work is stopped through Corona virus.



    Putting it on the test stand. The crane is bigger.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    I make a statement. I am optimistic this will not blow up in pressure testing like the SN1 did.
    I was not wrong. It did not blow up in pressure testing. It lost pressure under load and crumbled.



    On to SN4.

  16. #216
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    ^ Ah shit

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    See the cars for size comparison.
    Wow, that's BIG!

  18. #218
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    Why it first name was BFR... You can figure it out..

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    ^ Ah shit
    True. I am somewhat disappointed, had hoped they can do more with this one.

    Seems it was a fault with the ground support. A positive milestone still, looks like the structure of the stage was sound for the first time.

    Both the building methods and the ground support are not yet what they will be in the future. They are continuously improving everything. They could wait for improvements but they learn with every step. Most of their crew at the Boca Chica site are still quite unexperienced, they learn and get better too. Estimates of the cost for one build is in the range of $2million, they can afford to keep blowing them up every few weeks. Of course they spend much more but most of the money goes into improving infrastructure and would be spent independent of them blowing up builds.

    This is all private money, a very small fraction of what NASA spends for their huge new rocket, the SLS. For comparison NASA has spent over $800 million for the launch platform of SLS alone over the years. A launch platform that may support 4 launches until they need a new one because SLS will change.

    The next build, SN4 is expected to be ready for testing later this month.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    Wow, that's BIG!
    It is just the engine and tank section of the second stage. The first stage will be bigger. Same diameter of 9m but taller. For comparison the old Saturn V was 10m at the first stage. However the upper stages got thinner while with Starship they use the same diameter on first and second stage. Means they can use the same tooling for building both. It is all about cost reduction.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Seems it was a fault with the ground support. A positive milestone still, looks like the structure of the stage was sound for the first time
    The test tank is the same design as shown in post 213, which looks to have 4 vertical segments, a cap and a cup at the base, yes?

    The new test tank has additional vertical segments - looks like 14 in total, yes?

    The assembled tank is held down by cables, attached presumably to the top ring, supporting the cap, yes?

    The tank is filled and the complete tank is pressurised, yes?

    As they presumably hold at that point, to test/wait for confirmation of pressure stabilisation and no visual leaks. The tank structure was OK at self weight + fuel load + some safety margin.

    The hydraulic rams then pushed the cup/vertical segments upwards and compress all the vertical tank segments against the top ring, yes? To simulate the upper stage vertical loading, the rocket engines vertical force against the weight the tank, it's contents and the additional stages weight?

    I presume there are bracing struts inside the tank, angled up at 45 degrees and across horizontaly to the other side of the tank?

    Are all the segments of identical construction, or are the interior struts - size, angles or numbers, different, depending on whether they are at the tank bottom or top?

    The failure looks to start in the top third, the segment's skin appears to buckle inwards. The tank lower two thirds looks stable until the top third and the top cap collapses onto it.

    Which suggests the bottom two thirds of the tank segments were sound, at full load and the top third of the tank segments/braces failed. Firstly the segment skin and then the interior struts, or vice versa. As once the skin goes it's hoop strength is zero and nothing is holding the internal horizontal and angled struts in place, horizontally.

    Or as you suggest, the rams loaded the tank differentially and twisted it somehow.

    Just my opinion.

    Last edited by OhOh; 04-04-2020 at 11:17 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  22. #222
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    This is the thrust section of a rocket. It has 2 tanks, a smaller one at the top, intended for liquid methane. A bigger one below, intended for LOX, liquid oxygen. The part on the bottom, the part that did not crumble is the fairing for the engines. It is built much stronger than the tanks because it can not be pressurized for stabilization and it needs to hold the full weight of everything above, which with both tanks filled and the payload section and payload above, the part that is not yet installed will have a weight of app. 1400t, 1200t of propellant and maybe almost 200t payload and fairing. The bottom has reenforcements welded in. The tanks do not, they are 4mm stainless steel.

    They did not use methane and oxygen yesterday for the tank test. These are quite dangerous and would have caused a huge fire in what happened yesterday.

    They tested with liquid nitrogen which is neutral and won't catch fire. But it is a lot heavier than the propellant. The smaller upper tank was filled with ~500t of liquid nitrogen. That part was white from frost accumulating on the skin. The lower tank was empty but to some extent pressurized with gaseous nitrogen. So much weight can not be supported by the lower tank without pressure. What happened was the lower tank losing some of the pressure and then collapsing under the weight of the filled upper tank.

    We do not know yet for what reason pressure in the lower tank dropped. Elon Musk indicated they expect a fault in the test setup but need to look at the data more closely.


    Edit: BTW what I described as the failure scenario is quite obvious from the video if you know what to look for, when I watched it for the first time and fits with what Elon Musk said. Yet you can find a lot of different opinions on the web.
    Last edited by Takeovers; 05-04-2020 at 12:10 AM.

  23. #223
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    ^ thanks.

  24. #224
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    A video of the Starship wharf area and the launch site. A mad mix of building the next rocket, Mk4, and building new buildings for improving and speeding up the build process. Rocket components built in half finished buildings while construction is going on. Aim is a factory that can build 2 Starships every week, a fully reusable spacecraft. The only project that can justify an effort of this scale is building a city on Mars, transporting millions of tons materials and a large number of people to Mars. Elon Musk does not see this as a long term goal. He wants to begin with the city, not just a base, by the end of this decade or early next.

    The video is 11minutes a bit long but well worth watching if you are even slightly interested in the topic.



    A diagram showing the parts of SN4. The colored ones are parts that have already been seen. Basically everything complex nearly finished. A simple stack of 4 rings is the only part lacking, quite likely already in progress inside one of the tents.



    The red part on the bottom is what we see stacking in the video. The lower bulkhead and thrust structure where the engines will be installed. Engines also already on site.

  25. #225
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    Well TO you have gotten me into the Starship and Space X in general big time.. On YT I now get all the new videos from Scott Manley, The Everyday Astronaut and more... Really really interesting stuff.

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