SpaceX - On to Mars

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Originally Posted by happynz

Radiation: Mars has a very thin atmosphere that provides little protection against solar radiation and cosmic rays, which can be harmful to human health over long periods of time. To mitigate this, the colony would need to be shielded in some way, such as by building habitats underground or using radiation-blocking materials.

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Radiation is very much overrated as a hazard. Some shielding is required, but not overly much. One fallacy is that we need a radiation level as low as at most Earth sea level locations. There is, for example, one location in Iran, where radiation levels exceed what we expect on Mars and there are no recorded radiation related problems.

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Originally Posted by happynz

Extreme weather conditions: Mars has a very harsh environment, with temperatures that can range from -195°F (-125°C) at the poles to 70°F (20°C) at the equator, and dust storms that can last for months. This would make it challenging to maintain a sustainable colony, and require the development of specialized equipment and structures to withstand the conditions.

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These temperatures are in near vacuum, the swings are not hard to deal with. More problems with heat rejection are to be expected than problems with the cold. An engineering problem.

Yes, the dust storms are a problem, if the energy source is mostly solar. But even with severe dust storms the output does not get near zero. Energy intensive industries will need to be shut down. Food and air are in stock.

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Originally Posted by happynz

Limited resources: Mars is a barren planet with no readily available sources of food or water. Any colony would need to be self-sufficient and able to produce its own resources, which would require advanced technology and infrastructure. Additionally, any supplies or equipment sent from Earth would be extremely expensive and difficult to transport.

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There is readily available water in huge quantities. Yes, a Mars settlement will need to be advanced in technology and infrastructure.

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Originally Posted by happynz

Psychological challenges: Living on a remote and isolated planet for an extended period of time could have psychological impacts on the colonists, such as depression, anxiety, and feelings of isolation. This would require careful consideration of the mental health and well-being of the colonists, as well as measures to maintain communication with Earth and provide social support.

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These challenges will mostly disappear when there are more than a few hundred people. Communication with Earth will be available at any time. Not very hard to have relay sats so communication can be maintained during opposition, when the sun is between Earth and Mars.

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Originally Posted by happynz

Political and economic challenges: Establishing a Mars colony would require significant investment and cooperation from multiple governments and private organizations. This would likely involve complex negotiations and agreements, as well as the development of new regulations and policies for extraterrestrial activity. There may also be concerns around resource exploitation and potential conflicts over territory and ownership.

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I don't expect that multiple governments will be involved in leading roles. That would indeed doom the effort. Scary example, the ISS.

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Originally Posted by Takeovers

I don't see full terraforming of Mars, ever. There will be closed pressurized habitats. These will not be holes, that's just FUD like most of the "problems". I expect most habitats under ground but also transparent domes with plants, because human psychology needs it, at least occasionally.

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My point also. My original reply was concerning colonization which would require large number of people

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Originally Posted by Takeovers

It is what you brought up.

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My original post was about all the problems concerning habitation on Mars.Perchlorates making the soil not suitable for farming , Radiation do to the lack if magnetosphere,Temperature fluctuation, natural oxygen levels, etc. Someone replied that perchlorates are not soil . and I tried to explain that since they are in regolith. and regolith is a component of soil, perchlorate are in soil.
Perhaps we will be able to limit perchlorate contamination, and perhaps we would be able to mitigate the magnetosphere issue, and manufacture oxygen for our habitats and to carry with us. etc. But IMO all the problems combined would make large scale Mars habitation not viable.
But I don't claim to be an expert in the subject.I am not not even intermediate, So it's possible I am wrong.:)

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

My point also. My original reply was concerning colonization which would require large number of people

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About 1 million people won't need a terraformed Mars. Or even 10 million people. So what are you arguing?

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Originally Posted by Takeovers

About 1 million people won't need a terraformed Mars. Or even 10 million people. So what are you arguing?

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\So you say.
What kind of life would it be for 1 million people , where they cant even go outside? And why would anyone other than researchers want to move there? Things on earth would have to be pretty shitty.

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

\So you say.
What kind of life would it be for 1 million people , where they cant even go outside? And why would anyone other than researchers want to move there? Things on earth would have to be pretty shitty.

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Somewhat delayed answer, missed your post.

There are always a few people willing to do things like that. From 8 billion people on Earth, 1 million is really a small group. I also expect that many of the 1 million will be born on Mars. But yes, a decent quality of life needs to be provided. Good quality food, decent habitats, quality education available. Elon Musk favors glass domes for a reason. Plants inside Mars landscape visible on the outside. I don't think people will actually live in such domes but they will have access to them. Just knowing they exist, goes a long way. Even if people don't go there a lot.

2 videos by NASAspaceflight forum. Excellent description on how Starship and Superheavy booster are built. A bit heavy on details, not for everybody. Worth it if you are curious.

Starship

How Does SpaceX Build Starships at Starbase? From Steel to Starship. - YouTube

Superheavy Booster

Building SpaceX's Starship Super Heavy One Ring At A Time. - YouTube

This video is 18 minutes, maybe a bit much for most to watch.

SpaceX is repairing damage after the first launch and installs new systems to avoid similar damage on next launches.

The ground under the launch mount was just some heat resistant type of concrete. They hoped that would survive at least the first launch. It did not, the rocket exhaust dug out a deep hole, concrete flying all around. They drilled many piles into the ground, put rebar in and filled them with concrete. Then they installed a lot of rebar with very massive steel and poured a concrete pad. Over 300 concrete trucks were counted for pouring that new pad. Of course, this would still not stand up to a launch by itself. They installed a double steel plate, that has many holes on its upper plate. That's called the showerhead, except it throws the water up, towards the rocket, not down. Fan calculation shows, that the water pressure needs to be in the range of 20 bar to counter the rocket exhaust.

An 18 minute video on installing the showerhead. It shows how massive the new system is. This installation was planned and prepared before the first launch. But SpaceX did not want to complete it. They wanted and needed the data from that first launch, data they now have.

A few terms used in the video

Dancefloor. That's a work platform they can drive under the launch mount to work on the launch mount, deinstall, check, install booster engines with booster on the launch mount. See 12:38 into the video.

Ship QD arm. The quick connedt and disconnect arm that is used to fuel and, if needed, detank Starship on top of the Booster. On other rockets these systems are manually connected and can not be reconnected, once disconnected for launch. Starship QD is designed to automatically connect, deconnect, and if needed reconnect, so tanking and detanking can be done whenever needed, without crew on the pad to do this work with the risk of the rocket blowing up. See 8:06 into the video.

The rocket garden. A place where they store uncompleted Boosters and Starships. Some will never fly, get dismantled. Some may be completed and made ready for launch. 17:58 into the video.

SPMT, the multi wheel transport systems they use to transport heavy equipment, inluding Boosters and Starships, around. Each wheel assembly can be steered separately, making them very flexible in turning.


New OLM Deluge Plate Installed! | SpaceX Boca Chica - YouTube

SpaceX is in the process of massively upgrading the Boca Chica factory. I am not sure why they do that. They are presently already able to manufacture at least 1 booster and Starship combo in 1 month, probably more. Once they get reuse of at least the Booster, they can do many launches a month.

With the biggest launch vehicle ever built. Exceeding the NASA SLS rocket, which costs $3 billion to launch one, not including the Orion crew capsule on top, which adds another $1 billion.

Cool stuff, TO, cheers.

A little comparison in complexity.

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Boeing 777 engine

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Raptor 2 engine of Starship

Another one, landing gear of Boeing 777
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Good timing, I just saw this 1 minute ago.

https://i.imgur.com/GVXzKZ6.jpg


The piece on the bottom left.

Yesterday SpaceX performed a hot fire test of all 33 engines for booster 9. The first big test of the water deluge system that is intended to prevent damage on launch. It was spectacular.

The test was intended to run for 5 seconds at 50% engine thrust. For scale, 50% Starship thrust equals the full thrust of Saturn V. 4 of the Raptor engines failed some parameters and were shut off by the automated avionics system. As a result the duration of the test was reduced to 3.74 seconds.

I don't know how serious the failure of 4 engines is. The experts seem not concerned. It is part of what they learn to avoid. The good news is that there was no damage. The not running engines were shut down without endangering running engines. The water system protected the pad, no damage like on the first flight. To my surprise even the paint on the launch pad legs survived. Some call the system a showerhead, just throwing water up, not down. So some call it the bidet for that reason.

The SpaceX live coverage:

Starship Super Heavy Static Fire - YouTube

A summary by NSF forum who cover all the sites operated by SpaceX in Brownsville, Boca Chica. That's now the launch site, the production site and another test site, former Masseys gun range. The last has the advantage it is far enough from the main road so they can freely do some tests that would require closing of the beach and the street, when done at the launch site.

Starbase Update: Epic Booster 9 Static Fire, Ship 28 Prep & Future Starship Tests - YouTube

There are indications, that the booster will be taken down and transported to the factory, the build site to be prepared for launch. But there is still the hurdle of getting a FAA launch license.

The chop sticks are closing in on Booster 9. A sign of taking it off the launch pad soon. Whoever has nothing more interesting to do you can watch it for an hour or two to see it grabbed and put on the transporter. It is a live stream. Going back a bit you can see the chopsticks going down and grabbing the booster.

Starbase Live: 24/7 Starship & Super Heavy Development From SpaceX's Boca Chica Facility - YouTube

Amazing new picture of the B9 booster. Present launch target for the second Starship flight is August 31, 2023. Though it is very unlikely to actually happen that soon. One important missing step is launch license by FAA.

SpaceX has added a new feature to the booster. The hot staging ring. They intend to fire the Starship engines while the booster is still firing at small thrust and the 2 are still connected. This has a few advantages. It will increase payload, it avoids ullage pressure collapse on the booster. The booster needs to be pressurized to be stable and to supply propellant to the engines. If thrust stops, the remaining propellant will float around and cool down the gas, that provides the pressure. Pressure drops, which is a problem. Continuing to fire avoids this problem. Russian launch vehicles like Soyuz do that to increase payload to orbit, but they don't intend to reuse the lower stage. So they don't care if it gets destroyed. SpaceX wants to reuse the booster.

A great picture of the hot staging ring, with people working on it for scale. It allows gases from upper stage engines to escape through the slots.

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SpaceX says they are ready to launch the second Starship. Waiting for FAA launch license.

New to me that there is also a statement of the Fish and Wildlife Service needed. They already stated immediately after the first launch that there was no impact. But maybe the letter with that statement is still in the process of being sent out. It happened before. An important letter for the Environmental Statement was completed but the FWS took many months to actually send it out.

A photo op at the Starship launch site with all employees in Brownsville. With the Starship stack in the background.

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Originally Posted by Takeovers

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https://teakdoor.com/attachments/the...stflight-2-jpg

A beauty. :tumbs:

While SpaceX is still waiting for a launch license for their next test flight they keep doing tests of new hardware. A Starship single engine test at a suborbital test stand.

SpaceX Ship 26 Static Fire - YouTube

FAA still delaying launch license day by day, but seems imminent. SpaceX is doing final preparations. They have just placed the explosive charges that would terminate the flight, if it becomes a risk, that's done only when launch is imminent.

4 men carrying the explosives as backpacks. That photo is real!

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A short hype video from SpaceX, with stunning coverage.

Starship | Preparing for Second Flight Test - YouTube

https://teakdoor.com/attachments/the...djbaaammam-jpg

Those helmets look a bit flimsy to protect George, Paul, Ringo and John should one of the packs explode.

Apparently there was a small delay and the com said 'Boy, you're gonna carry that weight, carry that weight a long time'.

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Originally Posted by Edmond

Those helmets look a bit flimsy to protect George, Paul, Ringo and John should one of the packs explode.

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You were aware that this exists?

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I wasn't, but guessed that it was or would be done.

FAA license finally was issued. SpaceX is planning to launch tomorrow, Friday, at 7:00AM CT. Launch window is 2 hours. Mission plan is that Starship flys almost a full orbit around the Earth and touch down near Hawaii. No soft landing is intended for Starship or the booster. But reentry is intended. We will see if they get that far. NASA plans to have an observation plane in the landing area. The booster will do a flyback towards the launch site, but for safety reasons the trajectory will be short of reaching the shore and it too will drop into the sea.

Elon Musk said, the aim is successful stage separation. Everything beyond that is a bonus. If SpaceX can get the license in time, they may launch another vehicle by end of this year. There is a lot of hardware in the pipeline. But if there are any problems, which would not be surprising, they will have to come up with solutions and implement them.

SpaceX will have a transmission on Twitter.

Forum NASA Spaceflight on YouTube begins reporting 7 hours before launch.

SpaceX Launches Second Starship Flight Test - YouTube

Same with Everyday Astronaut, also beginning 7 hours before launch.

[4K] Watch SpaceX launch Starship, the biggest rocket ever, LIVE up close and personal! - YouTube

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Originally Posted by Takeovers

Mission plan is that Starship flys almost a full orbit around the Earth

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Cool, do you know what altitude?

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Originally Posted by Edmond

Cool, do you know what altitude?

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I read 150 miles....

A nice fan made infographic about Starship, Booster and Ship.

https://twitter.com/BingoBoca/status...27535669682579

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Booster 9 + Starship 25 IFT-2 Infographic!


This time I took my time to add accurate details on both the booster and the ship. The only thing that might not be accurate are the stats, as I tried to use some back channels to get newer info, but failed, so most of the stats are from before IFT-1.


You can view the full resolution of this infographic on an Easyzoom website, link in the comments down below!


Some notes:
- The dry mass of B9 also adds the 9t of the Hot Staging Ring


Also, you can use this infographic in any Youtube video, with a credit :3


If you like this infographic and would like to see more like these in the future and potentially do other rockets too (and help pay my rent lol), feel free to donate to my paypaI as a thank you. The link will be in the comments down below.

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