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Thread: RIP Bitcoin

  1. #8401
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    Get to the dealership for Mars Lambos.


    Moon Lambos are so 2017





    How's yer fiver doing Dill? Must be up to 80 nicker by now.

  2. #8402
    I Amn't In Jail PlanK's Avatar
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    The SEC have already been after Elon over his tweets that moved Tesla stock prices up and down. I wonder if this is his 1.5 billion dollar piss take of that affair. Buy some personal BTC, buy some personal Doge, tweet about BTC, tweet about Doge, get company to buy BTC => Sell personal BTC & Doge =>Profit.

    Thumb nose at SEC and say "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, can't catch me!"
    Dear Anti-vaxers: Enjoy your free trial.

  3. #8403
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Would you put your money on some deadbeat living in a shop doorway, or the world's richest guy that's also controversial?

    I suspect Musk's words and investments carry a bit more weight than Buffet has lost since his rat poison squared comment.

  4. #8404
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    A company that makes money by selling eco-friendly cars and carbon credits invests in an ineffective, planet-destroying magic internet money scheme and nobody questions it because the technology is complicated and the rich people say it's good on social media.

    Makes sense to me.


    I predict Apple throws a spare billion at BTC and it hits 100k.

  5. #8405
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    No reason why Apple shouldn't invest, though btc has the support and momentum to reach 100k without their weight. Bitcoin entered the top 20 assets in the world 3 months ago, and has now overtaken Bank of America, Facebook and Tesla to become the world's 8th most valuable asset by market cap. That's quite a feat for a new technology that was born 12 years ago at $0.001.

    But it's noise that counts so the critics must be right, btc cannot be a game changer, must be a bubble, or ponzi, or some scam that's going to slaughter its investors; like the Icebloke said don't forget the tulips, watch out for the tulips, whatever I don't like must be a tulip. Yet the same critics that believe btc is doomed to die, have no problem with the fact that world class companies are not just adding btc as an asset on their balance sheets, but also adopting blockchain tech for new and exciting applications that will benefit people in all walks of life, including climate change, while some govs recognise its potential as future currencies. Weird.

    While I have no problem with others believing btc will crash, what gets me as posted earlier, the higher it goes, the more institutional billions pouring into it, that much deeper do the critics dig in, sometimes even resorting to personal attacks for want of reasoned thought; everyone must be wrong, because they are right.

  6. #8406
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    what gets me as posted earlier, the higher it goes,
    Machine and human momentum traders, see the "Game" opportunity, and most of the stock markets.

    "Momentum trading is a technique in which traders buy and sell according to the strength of recent price trends. ... Momentum traders bet that an asset price that is moving strongly in a given direction will continue to move in that direction until the trend loses strength."

    More like, until they reach a chosen price, up or down.

    Do you have any thoughts on the competition/management of government issued "digital coin codes" as opposed to private companies issued "digital coin codes"?
    Last edited by OhOh; 10-02-2021 at 12:35 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  7. #8407
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Machine and human momentum traders, see the "Game" opportunity, and most of the stock markets.

    "Momentum trading is a technique in which traders buy and sell according to the strength of recent price trends. ... Momentum traders bet that an asset price that is moving strongly in a given direction will continue to move in that direction until the trend loses strength."

    More like, until they reach a chosen price, up or down.

    Do you have any thoughts on the competition/management of government issued "digital coin codes" as opposed to private companies issued "digital coin codes"?
    I do trade with a small % of my holding, always with a tight stop loss, scoresheet has fewer gains than losses but overall slightly ahead and with one potential bomba still running. I am not an experienced trader, so for me it's gambling based on basic understanding, feel, input from my pet vulture, and importantly news; fex, after Musk's first supportive interview I believed it was inevitable that he would buy into btc, publicly, which alone would add 8-10k followed by momentum; that trade is still running well.

    To your question, I don't know; I expect govs will eventually recognise the benefits of blockchain as more than a currency, those that issue their own tokens will use charm and clout to pump it, no surprise, and also no surprise that on the management side their dna has a tendency to cock up whatever they touch by demanding too much regulation and control.
    Last edited by jabir; 10-02-2021 at 04:38 PM.

  8. #8408
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    India Is Getting Closer to National Crypto Clampdown - Decrypt

    Looks like India are tightening up on btc, many more will follow.

  9. #8409
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    the SEC is coming for crypto and musk.

    who knows what will come of it...but you can bet they're coming.

  10. #8410
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    the SEC is coming for crypto
    if the coin is really decentralised , tradable on a actual decentralised exchange and truly fungible then there is not much they can do

  11. #8411
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    if the coin is really decentralised , tradable on a actual decentralised exchange and truly fungible then there is not much they can do
    Another reason why I do not post much on this thread anymore. I do not need the SEC sniffing around my coin trades.

  12. #8412
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    if the coin is really decentralised , tradable on a actual decentralised exchange and truly fungible then there is not much they can do
    it may not end up being the SEC....but you can bet that there are hundreds of people working in various agencies of the US govt. laying out plans on what they can do.

    this article is from november when the previous regime was still calling the shots....i can't imagine the biden administration will take a softer approach.

    Pressed by Sorkin as to why the SEC doesn’t currently regulate Bitcoin, Clayton said, “Well, let’s put it this way: We do not regulate Bitcoin as a security. When people use crypto assets as securities to raise capital for a venture, the SEC regulates that. And what was happening in the ICO craze was people were using ICOs and essentially making public offerings of securities without registering them with the SEC.”


    Clayton clarified that the SEC “determined that Bitcoin was not a security, it was much more a payment mechanism and store of value,” before adding, “the government does regulate payments.”

    Even if the SEC isn’t regulating Bitcoin, other government agencies, like the IRS and FinCEN (the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network), could potentially expand the ways in which they already do.


    Drew Hinkes, a lawyer with Carlton Fields and an adjunct at NYU Stern, told Decrypt that “FinCEN’s guidance treats Bitcoin like 'funds' or value that substitutes for currency,” and that early court cases treated Bitcoin like “money, funds, or funds equivalents.” Guidance from the IRS, he said, handles Bitcoin like property for federal income tax purposes, and the CTFC has said that Bitcoin is a commodity.

  13. #8413
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Woke up to these 3 headlines via investing.com

    Recent bitcoin rally is ‘speculative mania,’ Bank of Canada warns
    Recent bitcoin rally is ‘speculative mania,’ Bank of Canada warns - National | Globalnews.ca

    Crypto Boom Is ‘Speculative Mania,’ Bank of Canada Deputy Says
    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

    UPDATE 2-Bank of Canada accelerates work on digital currency amid pandemic
    UPDATE 2-Bank of Canada accelerates work on digital currency amid pandemic | Reuters

    Sounds like BoC are saying crypto is a speculative bubble, no mention of tulips but also no future as a viable currency...so let's put together our own crypto, that'll catch on well because people trust us, and maybe even better than our current system, otherwise what's the point.

    Other headlines name and shame more institutions piling into bitcoin and shifting cash around in prep to pile in after the meeting of real clout last week, including BNY Mellon that wouldn't mind being the first mover to integrate bitcoin as a parallel service to its fiat services.

    But sadly these are only facts on the ground, so I suspect we're in for more of the same, the idiots with more money than brain will force btc to new heights, while the smart ones warn us with liberally sprinkled personal insults that we're about to lose our daughters to this ponzi.

  14. #8414
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    while the smart ones warn us with liberally sprinkled personal insults that we're about to lose our daughters to this ponzi.
    you called..

    Blockchain technology is here to stay and so is crypto currency based on it.
    Bitcoin is not a crypto currency for the future and it will at some time be replaced by a better thought out one.
    In the meantime, until that "some time", there is money to make or to lose on it. Pump and dump. Act wisely.

  15. #8415
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Bitcoin is not a crypto currency for the future and it will at some time be replaced by a better thought out one
    As we have seen countries are stepping in to "legalise" how crypto currencies are "managed". More importantly who pays the transaction "taxes" similar to credit/debit cards and cash/bank deposits "fees" and backs up the trillions of .... moved at lightning speed all around the world, every day.

    A certain Chinese billionaire thought he could sell his companies shares, based on the "banking services/profit forecasts" it provided, without conforming to Chinese banking "rules".

    He has since been educated, probably in western China, where the garment factories are.

    ameristan has also opened the similar can or worms domestically.

    Although no "education" has been able to be undertaken by the company owners. As all the favoured politicians would lose their "political donations/investment tips/prior to share price moves" from the ameristani company's tax-deductible, management agreed, political donation "funds".

  16. #8416
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    As we have seen countries are stepping in to "legalise" how crypto currencies are "managed". More importantly who pays the transaction "taxes" similar to credit/debit cards and cash/bank deposits "fees" and backs up the trillions of .... moved at lightning speed all around the world, every day.
    are you drumps lawyer ?

  17. #8417
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    you called..

    Blockchain technology is here to stay and so is crypto currency based on it.
    Bitcoin is not a crypto currency for the future and it will at some time be replaced by a better thought out one.
    In the meantime, until that "some time", there is money to make or to lose on it. Pump and dump. Act wisely.
    Blockchain technology is here to stay, which even the most hardened critics are embarrassed to deny, as is the digital money that it offers as one of its many benefits. But as you say this is only until your 'something new' comes along, either to improve or supersede blockchain, while your "some time" is another smart term that covers infinity; well done, and I agree that technology has not hit a dead end with blockchain.

    Progress works through leaps and bounds: movers will improve on the best available, otherwise we'd still be driving around in the Model T which as it happens was also a world changer, and one that many dismissed as a frivolous endeavour. For now the best that's worth improving is blockchain, and as ever those making the real contributions to progress view the technology with enthusiasm, while others refuse to pan out for the immense potential, preferring to kick and squeal over some trivial or perceived imperfection. Some even react with shock and horror that it's a traded commodity like other commodities, while the seriously challenged cannot see beyond the tulip.

    To the point you may have been trying to make, nobody suggests nothing better than blockchain will come along, while those insisting that something better will come along are working on your smart principles above, with not the wildest notion as to what it might be; we only know something better will come along, eventually, if only an improvement on the existing product. This leaves us as is, with btc (crypto) that some recognise as a brilliant new invention that will change the world, others as an opportunity to invest in the infant technology, backed by proofs of work, while yet others find a position and comfort by calling it a ponzi, and so sure of their reasoning that they resort to personal attacks in favour of argument against those that disagree.

  18. #8418
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    are you drumps lawyer ?
    I employ lawyers and accountants when they can assist me. Their advice has always proved beneficial in my experience.

    I read this thread just to try and understand how and why Bitcoin has progressed, technically and as a saving vehicle and then not very deeply.

    My sons were early adopters and have some coins, I don't even know what types they have. My recent posts were triggered by reading about the Chinese authorities recent moves regarding Jack Ma's delayed company share offering. After reading what and why the Chinese banking authorities pulled the plug on his share offering, along with ameristan's regulators similar concerns.

    I see Bitcoin as a buy and hold commodity. I don't believe it has the ability to replace the VISA/MC/.... plastic cards for ease/speed of everyday instant use. From a THB 50 metro ticket to THB 1,000s flight, hotel and money transfer transactions. On the other hand it's use for transaction history certification is in many instances is unbeatable.

    One thing I would like to know if you yourself know it, is what sort of problems, as a % of transactions per day, scam transactions, disappearing into the ether or value of loss wise Bitcoin has, compared to credit/debit cards.

  19. #8419
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    I do not need the SEC sniffing around my coin trades.
    While every crypto transaction is still a taxable offence in America and copycat countries how will you cash out?

  20. #8420
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    Drew Hinkes, a lawyer with Carlton Fields and an adjunct at NYU Stern, told Decrypt that “FinCEN’s guidance treats Bitcoin like 'funds' or value that substitutes for currency,” and that early court cases treated Bitcoin like “money, funds, or funds equivalents.” Guidance from the IRS, he said, handles Bitcoin like property for federal income tax purposes, and the CTFC has said that Bitcoin is a commodity.
    And this is the crux of the matter. Programable money can be currency, security, commodity, or utility token depending on how it is used. Trying to pin it down using rules made in the thirties is just being silly. Japan has decided it belongs to a new class called digital assets. Other countries have decided to take a hands off approach to see where the technology goes so as not to stifle innovation. Hopefully the new Biden administration will take the blinkers off.

  21. #8421
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    And this is the crux of the matter
    Which when vocalised by the various government authorities to the masses, may have a detrimental effect to the "valuation" of such commodities.

    RIP Bitcoin-zhou-enlai-jpg

  22. #8422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    I added 2 at $5500 after the bounce @ $4xxx.
    Will be nice to see a price of $55,000 in less than 12 months after the purchase.


    Just another $5k to go

  23. #8423
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    for an opposing view

    Bitcoins Are Not a Hedge Against Tail Risk Nouriel Roubini

    Claims that bitcoin is the new “digital gold” are feeding a new bubble in it and other cryptocurrencies. The last one in 2017-18 saw bitcoin go from $1,000 to $20,000 and then fall back to $3,000 by the end of 2018.

    Since the fundamental value of bitcoin is zero and would be negative if a proper carbon tax was applied to its massive polluting energy-hogging production, I predict that the current bubble will eventually end in another bust.

    Referring to bitcoin or other crypto as “currencies” is a misnomer. They are not a unit of account: virtually nothing is priced in them. They are not a scalable means of payment: with bitcoin you can do five transactions per second while the Visa network does 24,000. Bitcoins are barely used by legitimate companies as payment for goods and services, although Tesla said it planned to start accepting them.

    Crypto is not a stable store of value: even some crypto conferences refuse to accept them as payment for attendance fees. The volatile price moves can wipe out any profit margin of a merchant within a matter of hours. They aren’t even denominated in a consistent way that allows users to compare relative prices of goods. This reliance on different tokens is effectively a return to barter. The Flintstones had a more sophisticated monetary system based on a benchmark: the cartoon cavemen used shells.

    Even referring to crypto as assets is a misnomer. Most assets have a stream of income (stocks, bonds, commercial real estate) or a use (housing) or some other utility (fiat currency provides liquidity and can be used for payments). Gold has no income but it has industrial uses. It also has utility as a store of value and a hedge against inflation, currency debasement and tail risks.

    Crypto has no income, no utility, no payment or other services. It isn’t even anonymous because the underlying blockchain technology makes it easy to trace payments. It is only a play on a speculative asset bubble, worse than tulip-mania as flowers had and still have utility. Its store of value against tail risks is unproven. And worse: some cryptos, dubbed “shitcoins”, are financial scams in the first place or debased daily by their sponsor. Bitcoin’s price is highly volatile, and claims of misbehaviour, including pump and dump, spoofing, wash trading and front-running by exchanges, are widespread.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RIP Bitcoin-dinner-candles-jpeg  
    Last edited by baldrick; 15-02-2021 at 04:38 AM.

  24. #8424
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    RIP Bitcoin-dinner-candles-jpeg

  25. #8425
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    crypto explained


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