Thread: Lest We Forget:

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned out backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind. Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!--An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen

Whenever I have a really bad day and think that things couldn't be worse I think of those with my name that had worse days...

Just like to thank the War Graves Commission and the French for the very well kept cemeteries...

*Edit*

^ Troy beat me to it by 4 minutes.

Luckily that's about the worst thing that happened to me today. I think Wilfred Owen had it worse somehow...

Originally Posted by Troy

I think of those with my name that had worse days...

Helen? The wooden horse?


(sorry, couldn't resist)

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

There are plenty of people preaching and writing against war.

It's just the the rich ones that make money out of it don't fucking care.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Then you are clearly as thick as shit.

I find it hard to understand why we continue to glorify the obscenity of war as adverse to condemning it in every way possible.

Why is remembering those who made a sacrifice "glorifying the obscenity of war"?

There is even more to it than remembering those who gave their lives. After WW1 things got back to normal but then it all kicked off again 21 years later. Then it was realised that more effort to remember the atrocities of war needed to be made, in part to show respect to the sacrifice a world war requires but also to hope and pray that it never happens again.

Originally Posted by pompeysbroke

^It says, living in St Albans. What a hypocritical nob ended Mick. Why don't you fuk off out of it, [at][at][at][at]

Originally Posted by Cujo

I think DrBobs been on the booze.

It is clear that popeye'sbloke hasn't gotten off booze for a while

Originally Posted by wasabi

died for nothing, so that the enemy could now rule Britain. BBC now telling us to embrace the enemies.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Is this the first time you've realised Germany lost both wars?

It's wasabi - weird posts punctuated by odd musings

Originally Posted by Steam

Then it was realised that more effort to remember the atrocities of war needed to be made, in part to show respect to the sacrifice a world war requires but also to hope and pray that it never happens again.

. . . yet there has never been a time when people weren't being killed by the 'good' guys from WWI AND WWII - THE US, UK, OZ etc continued this tradition of exporting murder and mayhem.

Poems - fine
Actions - better
Prayer - fucking useless

My Grandfather (English) fought in WW2 on a torpedo boat (MTB).

He was the main gunner, so all the other gunners on the boat would follow his tracers. I remember he said he would always aim for the engine bay of the enemy ship - to disable it. One time his commander ordered him to shoot the enemy on the deck, he flat-out refused.

They don't make men like that anymore... RIP Grandad.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Steam

Then it was realised that more effort to remember the atrocities of war needed to be made, in part to show respect to the sacrifice a world war requires but also to hope and pray that it never happens again.

. . . yet there has never been a time when people weren't being killed by the 'good' guys from WWI AND WWII - THE US, UK, OZ etc continued this tradition of exporting murder and mayhem.

Poems - fine
Actions - better
Prayer - fucking useless

Trying to maintain world peace sometime means doing something rather than doing nothing. If someone had done something about Hitler in the 1930s then a lot of lives and carnage would have been prevented. That lesson was learned the hard way.

Germany Italy and Japan invented the use of contemporary weapons to export worldwide murder and mayhem.

Originally Posted by Steam

Trying to maintain world peace sometime means doing something rather than doing nothing.

Like invading Iraq and murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians?
How about invading Vietnam and murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians?
There seems to be a pattern here

Originally Posted by Steam

If someone had done something about Hitler in the 1930s

False equivalence - you're using one historical period to justify any action taken now.
By your 'reasoning', anything can be justified and everything is justifiable

Originally Posted by Steam

That lesson was learned the hard way.

Uh-huh - which lesson was this?

Originally Posted by Steam

Germany Italy and Japan invented the use of contemporary weapons to export worldwide murder and mayhem.

Yet again you're mistaken - possibly because you're very, very anglo-centric in your deductions and standpoints - simply look back a tiny sliver further to see how the British dealt with China, India etc . . .

Also, if you look at Germany - how did they export worldwide murder and mayhem?
How did Japan export worldwide murder and mayhem?

The US? Easily exported murder and mayhem worldwide . . . you name it, the US has bombed it (rhetorically speaking)

Originally Posted by Steam

Germany Italy and Japan invented the use of contemporary weapons to export worldwide murder and mayhem.

The Russians suffered the most casualties . If it wasn't for Dumb Hitler opening up the Russian front Britain would have been defeated. Remember the fallen Russians.

^ It speaks for "'all"' again. Yes, millions over 2 world wars fighting tyranical Germany, its evil and its allies.

The current threat of islamic devilry shall be overcome.

You are a bully and a coward.

Again, when is 'brother' shave coming to 'enilghten' me as you promised?

Scumbag

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Steam

Trying to maintain world peace sometime means doing something rather than doing nothing.

Like invading Iraq and murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians?

Could you please show me some evidence of where the coalition murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq?

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Steam

If someone had done something about Hitler in the 1930s

False equivalence - you're using one historical period to justify any action taken now.
By your 'reasoning', anything can be justified and everything is justifiable

So it's better to not adjust your future actions based on lessons learned in the past? We'd still be living in caves in that were the case.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Steam

Germany Italy and Japan invented the use of contemporary weapons to export worldwide murder and mayhem.

Yet again you're mistaken - possibly because you're very, very anglo-centric in your deductions and standpoints - simply look back a tiny sliver further to see how the British dealt with China

How many thousands did British gunboats kill in China?

From your standpoint, are you German Italian or Japanese? I'm almost certain you are.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Also, if you look at Germany - how did they export worldwide murder and mayhem?
How did Japan export worldwide murder and mayhem?

Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ethnic cleansing for starters.

Originally Posted by Steam

Concentration camps

Who invented concentration camps?

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Whilst one appreciates the poetry and acknowledges the sacrifice I find it hard to understand why we continue to glorify the obscenity of war as adverse to condemning it in every way possible.

I thought the whole point of remembering WAS to condemn in every way possible, the obscenity of war.

Originally Posted by wasabi

The Russians suffered the most casualties . If it wasn't for Dumb Hitler opening up the Russian front Britain would have been defeated. Remember the fallen Russians.

We should not forget the Russians, but I think you forgot this lot?

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

I thought the whole point of remembering WAS to condemn in every way possible, the obscenity of war.

That's what I thought but nowadays we seem to be more focused on glorifying it.
That's my point really.

The concentration camp was invented by the British and first utilised in South Africa - Boer War

Originally Posted by Iceman123

The concentration camp was invented by the British and first utilised in South Africa - Boer War

True that.

It took the Germans to really get the hang of the purpose, though

Originally Posted by pompeysbroke

Originally Posted by Iceman123

The concentration camp was invented by the British and first utilised in South Africa - Boer War

True that.

It took the Germans to really get the hang of the purpose, though

I hear they did it with impunity, eh popeye'sbloke

Dunce

If the commemorations aren't militaristic why do the army keep turning up at them?

Cuz they're ordered to by civilians.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Cuz they're ordered to by civilians.

Militaristic civilians.

Militarism, and the romancing thereof, is the force that gives us meaning.....

I will be doing some proper remembering with ex service friends upon my return. We each do it for different reasons in our own way.
At Heathrow now so will respond in more detail when I am back. i don't mind how or why we remember, just grateful that our forbears provided us with an opportunity to do it.