Thread: New Zealanders presented with 40 flag options to vote for new national standard

NZ needs more mr Gormsby's

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

They just couldn't break away from the Union Jack, very understandable...

Too many Poms living here I'm afraid...

Sorry Chooky,

The biggest vote against changing the flag was from Maori.

Changing the flag is seen by them as the first step towards NZ becoming a republic, which Maori don't want, as the Treaty of Waitangi would then be declared null and void and everyone in NZ would be released from the English Crown enterprise debt theein contained,,,,,,so Maori get no more handouts,....the final full and final settlement of that rip-off treaty.

Then, we'd have an egalitarian society, instead of the apartheid system now in place in NZ, where Maaori get the privileges, and ol' white man(and any other migrant to NZ) pays.

^ Have to agree with that, ENT.

That's one thing I won't miss about NZ when we leave to live in Japan... the sense that Pakeha, are somehow blamed for all the Maori woes...

The education system somehow doesn't work for their precious sensibilities, Maori are overly represented in jail, unemployment figures, crime, you name it, these are all attributed to and the fault, of the white man...

We are constantly reminded they are the Tangata Whenua 'people of the land' and thereby have special rights and privileges yada yada yada...

I don't buy it (even though I am part Maori) indigenous people my arse.. we are all immigrants... Thais can trace their roots to China as can the Polynesian people of which Maori belong...

All people should be treated equally, regardless of race/color/religion/wealth, etc..

luckily I now live in Thailand so I am now out of the country the boasts more sheep than people.

^^ Good on ya mate.

The more that folk bow down to so-called indigenous native rights in NZ, the more they ignore the fact that present so-called Maori, who are in fact NOT Maori, the tangata whenua listed and vouched for in the treaty of Waitangi, but are in fact Tai Tonga (Tai from Tonga) people who came in successive waves to NZ, killing and eating the indigenous occupiers of that land, as directed by Toi the Woodeater, an early pre- Nga Pui chieftain.

Tamatea, an early Polynesian migrant chief spoke of a land "crawling with people,", that those people had already named all the mountains and were firmly established in NZ at the time of his arrival.

Sadly, present day wannabee Tai Tonga, Nga Pui et al have indulged in political cleansing of all references to that time in NZ history, oral traditions that don't suit Nga Pui/Tai Tonga claims have been suppressed, and the mantle and status of the original Te Maori has been conveniently ripped off by English Crown enterprise to placate Nga Pui after the signing of the Treaty, to facilitate England's governance of NZ, via the Treaty.

No original tangata whenua as Te Maori (as attested to in the treaty document), would allow the dominant Nga Pui to dominate in Treaty negotiations, allowing the lion's sgare to fall into their hands, and until this day, obstruct all other tribal claims to the land.

In the S Island, Ngai Tahu, a proxy under-tribe of Nga Pui have taken over and subverted all other tribal claims to the S Island, in particular, the claims of still living Moriori and Waitaha, who have never claimed to be, nor regard themselves to be Maori, who were only one tribe living in the N Island NZ.

Ngai Tahu currently dismiss all claims of Waitaha in their search for dominance and ownership of Aotearoa.

Sad.

Originally Posted by NZdick1983

I blame him for my ................... warped sense of humor..

Why do Moaris drive so fast?

So they can beat the seagulls to the dump!

------
What goes black-white-black-white...

Seagull and a Maori fighting over a fish head

Well ENT seems to know a bit about the Maori. Woman at Hamilton museum full of Maori stuff (no pics as it might offend the Maori) told us there are no full blooded Maori left at all in NZ, shagged themselves out apparently, so what are they entitled to and why keep giving it?

The Treaty of Waitangi is an English Crown enterprise deal, unratified until Dr. Maurice Love ('Mok' to his old confreres) took up the issue and pushed for ratification of the treaty, disregarding the overall issue of international human rights, so that latter generations of Kiwis would perpetually pay for English incursions into New Zealand.

England, quite rightly should be paying for any claims under the treaty, but because NZ hasn't yet unfastened the apron strings to English Crown allegiance and become a republic, every sigfle man , woman and child in NZ, regardless of their ethnicity, are now blackmailed and c0-erced into paying a proportion of their income to so called Maori (who are NOT Maori , but Tai Tonga Polynesians.

It's a total rip -off of the rights of individuals living in NZ.

Bear in mind that Polynesians in NZ, (including those who ripped off the title of Te Maori, a previous indigenous peoples of NZ, before the current so called "classical" Maori, arrival date in NZ aprox 1625 AD) almost completely wiped out any previous occupiers of the land, stole the whole country from them, yet demand compensation from the English Crown for their intrusions into Aotearoa.

The people of NZ who are really entitled to compensation are the Waitaha, Moriori and Tu Whare Toa, along with a scattering of other sub-tribes still surviving the onslaught of Tai Tonga Naga Pui, the dominant Polynesian tribe of NZ.

Nga Pui should be paying compensation to those original indigenes, Te Maori, Waitaha, Tu Whare Toa and Moriori, the oldest occupiers of the land.

^ Agree with that ENT.

NZ history is murky to say the least... vested interests have twisted our real history to garner empathy from liberal ultra PC Pakeha and to further Maori interests (primarily, never ending financial compensation).

Ant will disagree with me, but Moriro (the original inhabitants of NZ) or at least, the people here before the Maori, took a solemn vow of peace known as Nunuku’s Law.

Unfortunately, the Maori took no such vow and immediately began killing and enslaving the Moriori people. Although Moriori outnumbered them almost two to one, they chose to obey Nunuku’s Law and did not fight back.

Following several Moriori petitions, the New Zealand government finally stepped in after 28 years. However, it was too late...

"[The Maori] commenced to kill us like sheep.... [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed - men, women and children indiscriminately."

- A Moriori survivor




"The Moriori genocide, this event occurred in the 19th century between indigenous peoples.

Ritual involving staking out woman and children on the beach and leaving them to die in great pain over several days. Forbade speaking of Moriori language forced Moriori to desecrate their sacred sites by urinating and defecating on them after the invasion:

Moriori forbidden to marry Moriori or have children with each other. They all became slaves of the invaders. Many Moriori women had children with their Moriori masters only 101 Moriori out of a population of about 2000 were left alive by 1862"

Source https://infogr.am/themoriori-genocide

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Too many Poms living here I'm afraid.

I find it difficult to believe that the present day Maori would tilt at flag change because it would nullify the treaty?
At some point in history the indigenous peoples would have been exploited and disadvantaged by immigrants. The very issue that is being so hotly debated in Europe right now.
Maybe we can wait a few centuries for the Muslims to compensate Europe for exploiting our secular societies?

Regarding the flag issue, I suspect the older generations who are more likely to vote, still retain a grudging respect and thanks for the British allowing them to occupy a former sovereign nation of such outstanding natural beauty.

^ Agree with that mate.

I suppose the end result of this voting result is that the Aussie flag WILL be changed with the Union Jack not being present.

I reckon a dark blue background with the Southern Cross in gold emblazzed across it is the right choice as it will not affect any majority or minority group.

Why gold?

New Zealand's lot nicer than Australia though, strewth even the natives are better than those Aboriginals, ugly buggers they are. Don't think many will care what Australia does with it's flag, just put skippy on it.
Thanks for the interesting stuff on NZ native history guys.

Originally Posted by NZdick1983

Ant will disagree with me, but Moriro (the original inhabitants of NZ) or at least, the people here before the Maori, took a solemn vow of peace known as Nunuku’s Law.

Not just me, actual fact and history too.

The whole Moriori as pre-Maori settlers thing is a post-colonial invention that was used to justify colonization itself. It has been completely and utterly discredited.

That it is still being repeated today tells me that the NZ education system clearly can't be all that great.

Irrespective of native travails, it is interesting to note that isolation and extreme distance from civilisation still has an effect on the white folk of the colony in that they, evidently, wish to maintain their link with the mother country.

Bless.

^kinda sweet, innit!

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Not just me, actual fact and history too. The whole Moriori as pre-Maori settlers thing is a post-colonial invention that was used to justify colonization itself. It has been completely and utterly discredited. That it is still being repeated today tells me that the NZ education system clearly can't be all that great.

Dunno bro, where is the definitive truth/fact/account of events then?

I'm no expert and I am indifferent either way, but that's what I've read (over and over again)... Yep, even our Maori teacher in school told us the Maori ate the Moriori into extinction..

I remember him telling us "We ate the eyes of defeated tribes, to gain greater vision"

"We ate the brains of defeated chiefs to gain wisdom" etc, etc..

Why would he lie to paint such a grim picture of his ancestors?

I'm open to new knowledge/information though, could you link to your source that disproves that Moriori pre-dated the Maori - and were not hunted and killed to the brink of extinction?

Just Google "Moriori myth"; "Moriori+myth" or similar.

Originally Posted by NZdick1983

^ Agree with that ENT.

Ant will disagree with me, but Moriro (the original inhabitants of NZ) or at least, the people here before the Maori, took a solemn vow of peace known as Nunuku’s Law.

Unfortunately, the Maori took no such vow and immediately began killing and enslaving the Moriori people. Although Moriori outnumbered them almost two to one, they chose to obey Nunuku’s Law and did not fight back.

The very reason why there was such a law on the Chatham Islands, was that if they started fighting, there wouldn't be anyone left... It's a small place. Nunuku, obviously saw this. It worked ok, until the war like tribes from the mainland sailed over for lunch.

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by ENT

Sorry Chooky,

The biggest vote against changing the flag was from Maori.

I don't really care where the vote came from. It's a crying shame that we have to have a flag with the Union Jack on it.It also looks a lot like Australia...need I say more?

The biggest lobby group against the old flag was the RSA. They have every right to vote for the flag, but as our war hero, Willie Apiata said, "You don't fight for your country, you fight for your mates"

Agreed there, the last thing we need is the Union Jack over us.

I liked the silver fern on black and blue with the red Southern cross akimbo.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Just Google "Moriori myth"; "Moriori+myth" or similar.

^ A Maori library sanitizer at work, trying to expunge from the records all reference to Waitaha, Moriori and other earlier tribes.

Always in denial of their true whakapapa, re-inventing themselves constantly, no stable mana at all, very flaky, with zero aroha.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Through in some more Googled Te Reo and non-sequiturs, bENT.

It's neither impressive nor persuasive of the alternate (and incorrect) version of history you're trying to promote.

Wow that was a mouthful of garbage you just spat out over yer keyboard!