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  1. #1
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    The danger of science denial

    Anti-vaccinators, Climate change deniers, creationists etc. It is a growing trend to reject the findings of science. It is especially common in right wing America. Another excellent Tedtalks installment.



    Michael Specter: The danger of science denial | Talk Subtitles and Transcript | TED.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket
    the usual narcissistic, self-congratulatory, techno-triumphalist wankfest given by some preening cvnt who is blind to his own massive ideological commitments.
    a TD member then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket View Post
    Skimmed very rapidly through the transcript and, as with all Ted talks, it seems to be the usual narcissistic, self-congratulatory, techno-triumphalist wankfest given by some preening cvnt who is blind to his own massive ideological commitments.
    So you are a creationist I take it?

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    Jimmy Kimmel gets some doctors to address the anti-vaccination madness. Pretty funny:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket
    it seems to be the usual narcissistic, self-congratulatory, techno-triumphalist wankfest given by some preening cvnt who is blind to his own massive ideological commitments.
    They always resort to an ad hominem argument coupled with the assertion that science is tied to an ideological agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket View Post
    Skimmed very rapidly through the transcript and, as with all Ted talks, it seems to be the usual narcissistic, self-congratulatory, techno-triumphalist wankfest given by some preening cvnt who is blind to his own massive ideological commitments.
    So you are a creationist I take it?
    Yes. That's right bsnub. The entire range of intellectual positions is exhausted by either being a creationist or being the kind of person who enjoys the 10-minute inanity of the typical Ted talk.
    The thread was started to spark discussion about science denial not Tedtalks. There is plenty of other sources to draw on regarding the topic.

    If you want to discuss Tedtalks then go start your own thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket View Post
    Skimmed very rapidly through the transcript and, as with all Ted talks, it seems to be the usual narcissistic, self-congratulatory, techno-triumphalist wankfest given by some preening cvnt who is blind to his own massive ideological commitments.
    So you are a creationist I take it?
    Yes. That's right bsnub. The entire range of intellectual positions is exhausted by either being a creationist or being the kind of person who enjoys the 10-minute inanity of the typical Ted talk.
    That's BSnubs position on everything. If you question anything that HE thinks about any of these matters, you must be either a "science denier" or a "creationist".

    Science denier is convenient buzz phrase which is being beaten to death by science groupies who don't understand that science involves ongoing debate and challenges. He will without a doubt move this thread along by calling everybody with even the slightest of conflicting opinion, morons, stupid, or something of the sort.

    It's really quite pointless trying to have an intelligent conversation with such people....
    I blame the Americans......and Thaksin.

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    The TED talk makes some good points, but he is more or less preaching to the choir- and TED talks do tend to have an air of smug superiority about them (consider the source). Two minutes of doctors telling people in no uncertain terms that they are idiots ("Hey, remember that time you got polio? No, you don’t, because your parents got you f----g vaccinated.”) not only better expresses the exasperation some of us feel about this issue, it might even be more effective.

    I showed the Kimmel vid to my wife (a Thai) this morning, and it was one of those "I can't believe my ears, you must be saying something else, I must be misunderstanding this" moments for her- "Won't get their kids vaccinated? That can't be. . .Really? That's crazy!" It is kind of hard to get your head around.
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

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    Quote Originally Posted by koman
    science groupies who don't understand that science involves ongoing debate and challenges.
    As long as those debates and challenges are legitimate however most are not. For example is it really a constructive use of time for a scientist to debate a fundamentalist Christian on evolution? Somethings are just a waste of time and the scientific community is not obligated to give every crackpot a podium.

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    I think the discussion of vaccination (and like you, I preferred reading the transcript to listening) is secondary to "we'd have to go back hundreds, 300 years, before the Enlightenment, to find a time when we battled progress, when we fought about these things more vigorously, on more fronts, than we do now"- which the speaker refers to as a consequence of a nostalgic yearning for a simpler time (in other words, a retreat to tradition and religion in the face of overwhelming complexity) and "When you get proof, you need to accept the proof, and we're not that good at doing that. And the reason that I can say that is because we're now in an epidemic of fear like one I've never seen and hope never to see again" are the more important issues he is addressing. In a way vaccination is a somewhat inappropriate example, because the effects of anti-vaccination are already observable.

    The problems are probably two-fold- heavy investment in propaganda by business interests, as we've seen in regard to smoking and now see with carbon-based energy promotion, and a loss of faith in institutions. In the States it does seem like there is a battle with progress, especially as progress is represented by the triumph of science and reason over belief and feeling. As Specter puts it, the concern is "why we have increasingly begun to fear scientific advances instead of embracing them," and the TED format aside, it does seem a legitimate concern.

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    The problem with these right wing jesus wheezers is that they suffer from both cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, meaning that they will discard anything that challenges the beliefs they've had drummed into them and tend to seek sources that validate those beliefs.

    Which ends up with them becoming even more entrenched.

    Notwithstanding the poncy TED format, he is absolutely right that not enough heed is being paid to the inevitable end of non-renewables and the destruction of natural habitats in the name of consumerism, and as long as you can keep drumming the "everyone for themselves" beat into these fucking airheads, they'll keep voting for you.

    Having said that, when the shit hits the fan it might cost a few lives, but that will be the time that the powers-that-be take a partial break from stuffing cash in their pockets and try and do something.

    Killing the golden goose and all that....

    (At least I hope so).

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    Never been injected. Never been admitted to hospital. Colds and flu last no more than a couple of days. Mates vaccinated along with their kids. Always snotty noses. Admitted regularly as a cold warrants a trip to the hospital. No offense to my pals, but they look years older than I do, and they are far less healthier.

    Freedom of choice though BS. If you've been vaccinated, why worry?
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    Never been injected. Never been admitted to hospital. Colds and flu last no more than a couple of days. Mates vaccinated along with their kids. Always snotty noses. Admitted regularly as a cold warrants a trip to the hospital. No offense to my pals, but they look years older than I do, and they are far less healthier.

    Freedom of choice though BS. If you've been vaccinated, why worry?
    Example of Confirmation Bias? Listening to that InfoWars shit and believing it completely negates the need for any scientific evidence.

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    Denial, questioning, speculation...

    Isn't science just a best guess?
    Not an absolute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    Never been injected. Never been admitted to hospital. Colds and flu last no more than a couple of days. Mates vaccinated along with their kids. Always snotty noses. Admitted regularly as a cold warrants a trip to the hospital. No offense to my pals, but they look years older than I do, and they are far less healthier.

    Freedom of choice though BS. If you've been vaccinated, why worry?
    Example of Confirmation Bias? Listening to that InfoWars shit and believing it completely negates the need for any scientific evidence.
    Yet it's odd, as your ilk are usually first to insult. Must be the meds!

    But I totally understand when your life revolves around how many movies you've watched, posts you can achieve on this site and no doubt many others, and your computer knowledge, iphone blah blah blah stuff. Personally, I prefer to spend my semi-retired time (at 42) state, actually getting out blasting around on my bike or whatever takes my fancy!

    Just a note. I've never taken injections. I don't recall Alex Jone (the true Patriot he is BTW) while munching on my rusks!

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    Yet it's odd, as your ilk are usually first to insult. Must be the meds!

    But I totally understand when your life revolves around how many movies you've watched, posts you can achieve on this site and no doubt many others, and your computer knowledge, iphone blah blah blah stuff. Personally, I prefer to spend my semi-retired time (at 42) state, actually getting out blasting around on my bike or whatever takes my fancy!

    well .... how to contradict ones self in a paragraph.... he is doing exactly as u do ... quote... whatever takes my fancy. f***** idiot.

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    ^Simply returning the gesture Cnut!

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    Typical bizarre thread wherein those who challenge the idiotic prognostications of the cult religion founded by the charlatan Al Gore are lumped together with Creationists and other American inspired tomfoolery.

    Climate change, manifested by dynamic weather patterns, is a natural phenomenon. To attribute it to the Industrial Revolution is not based on good science. That those adherents who worship on the high altar of Gore's gospel actually believe, as a tenet of their faith, that the effects of climate change can be reversed within a generation through taxation and someone cycling to work everyday is simply more evidence of man's inclination towards imbecility and further proves Einstein's theory that only stupidity is assuredly infinite.

    Problem is, science has now become simply a tool of commercialism and to argue otherwise is tantamount to putting oneself forward as a Protestant in the Spanish Inquisition and accepting death for the crime of apostasy.

    Only a fool believes man is responsible for climate change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Typical bizarre thread wherein those who challenge the idiotic prognostications of the cult religion founded by the charlatan Al Gore are lumped together with Creationists and other American inspired tomfoolery.

    Climate change, manifested by dynamic weather patterns, is a natural phenomenon. To attribute it to the Industrial Revolution is not based on good science. That those adherents who worship on the high altar of Gore's gospel actually believe, as a tenet of their faith, that the effects of climate change can be reversed within a generation through taxation and someone cycling to work everyday is simply more evidence of man's inclination towards imbecility and further proves Einstein's theory that only stupidity is assuredly infinite.

    Problem is, science has now become simply a tool of commercialism and to argue otherwise is tantamount to putting oneself forward as a Protestant in the Spanish Inquisition and accepting death for the crime of apostasy.

    Only a fool believes man is responsible for climate change.

    Au contraire.

    There are two sets of people that argue against the science:

    (1) Those who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, mainly for financial reasons.
    (2) Those who are too fucking stupid to understand it anyway.

    I think we can influence the climate but not to the extent that we can have a definitive impact on what occurs naturally anyway.

    Interestingly, there is a new three parter I have yet to watch called "Planet Oil", about how we became so dependent on the stuff.

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    ^"I think we can influence the climate but not to the extent that we can have a definitive impact on what occurs naturally anyway." If what you are saying here is that human impact on the climate so far has been as rapidly or immediately powerful as, say, volcanic eruption or a meteor strike (provided that is to be considered "natural") historic examples demonstrate (the Year Without Summer) that is true, although the idiotic argument (which I don't think you are making) often made by "conservatives," often religious loonies, that human activity is too puny to have an impact on the climate is belied by studies of the likely impact of even a small-scale nuclear exchange: India-Pakistan Nuclear War Would Kill 2 Billion People, End Civilization: Report Was thinking about that today when I read the Guardian's account of Pervez "The Perv" Musharaff coming clean about support for the Taliban as part of Pakistan's effort in what Perv described as the Pakistan-India proxy war that has been going on Afghanistan since the US invasion (seemingly without the knowledge of the Americans/Britain/NATO, although I doubt it). Thailand would probably not be the best place to be when the bombs shoot "5 million tons of soot high into the atmosphere, blocking out sunlight and dropping temperatures."

    To the science deniers: I realize these are only "studies" done by "researchers," but it seems humans certainly are capable of affecting the climate, instantly and/or cumulatively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kockupocket View Post
    I realize these are only "studies" done by "researchers,"
    Yeah but they're just academics. What do they know?
    Ivory-tower types, and certainly liberals.

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    The "science" that most of these right wing cretins follow comes from people like Alex Jones, who last night proclaimed that net neutrality is a government attempt at controlling the press, because "the internet is mainly text".

    I could cite studies galore that actually illustrate that 70+% of Internet traffic is video (and a substantial portion of that is probably these retarded jesus wheezers downloading or streaming goat porn), but they wouldn't believe it anyway.

    I mean if they'll follow feeble-minded douches like that, what chance have they got of understanding real science?

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The "science" that most of these right wing cretins follow comes from people like Alex Jones, who last night proclaimed that net neutrality is a government attempt at controlling the press, because "the internet is mainly text".

    I could cite studies galore that actually illustrate that 70+% of Internet traffic is video (and a substantial portion of that is probably these retarded jesus wheezers downloading or streaming goat porn), but they wouldn't believe it anyway.

    I mean if they'll follow feeble-minded douches like that, what chance have they got of understanding real science?
    So you listen to Alex streaming nightly, Harry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thaimeme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The "science" that most of these right wing cretins follow comes from people like Alex Jones, who last night proclaimed that net neutrality is a government attempt at controlling the press, because "the internet is mainly text".

    I could cite studies galore that actually illustrate that 70+% of Internet traffic is video (and a substantial portion of that is probably these retarded jesus wheezers downloading or streaming goat porn), but they wouldn't believe it anyway.

    I mean if they'll follow feeble-minded douches like that, what chance have they got of understanding real science?
    So you listen to Alex streaming nightly, Harry?
    No, I just had it on as background noise last night because there was bugger all else on.

    I don't think you have the right to criticise anyone if you don't listen to them or watch them.

    I mean I watch a bit of Fox News as well, how else would I know what a load of shite it is?

    Plus the BBC and Sky are so repetitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thaimeme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The "science" that most of these right wing cretins follow comes from people like Alex Jones, who last night proclaimed that net neutrality is a government attempt at controlling the press, because "the internet is mainly text".

    I could cite studies galore that actually illustrate that 70+% of Internet traffic is video (and a substantial portion of that is probably these retarded jesus wheezers downloading or streaming goat porn), but they wouldn't believe it anyway.

    I mean if they'll follow feeble-minded douches like that, what chance have they got of understanding real science?
    So you listen to Alex streaming nightly, Harry?
    No, I just had it on as background noise last night because there was bugger all else on.

    I don't think you have the right to criticise anyone if you don't listen to them or watch them.

    I mean I watch a bit of Fox News as well, how else would I know what a load of shite it is?

    Plus the BBC and Sky are so repetitive.
    Gee, there's a shitload of news/info alternatives available - always has been.

    Seems as everyone becomes bogged down through this consciousness of mainstream establishment sources - regardless of one's political/social philosophy.

    We're conditioned that the only worth derives from the same establishment that we might question.

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