Thai Haters Versus logic

[Fozzy]

Thai haters are ever present on this and most Thai forums and the topic often runs as an undercurrent to many threads. The problem is it's always off topic and invariably gets deleted before the Thai haters realise the error of their ways...sorry, I mean before it can be discussed.

So here we have it, the thread where discussing Thai haters and for Thai haters to defend their position without it being off topic.

Let's try and do something really amazing and keep it civil and out of the DH for at least a day.

[Fozzy]

I'm not going down the "If you hate Thailand why do you live there" road, (although perhaps we can cover that later) but my question is "What exactly are you expecting from a developing country in South East Asia, and where is Thailand falling short?"

To me these people who slag of Thailand every second, are doing nothing less barmy than turning on a tap marked "Hot", putting their hand under it and saying "Fuck me that's hot". They are the kings of stating the obvious.

Thailand is a developing country in SE Asia, it is EXACTLY what I would expect it to be, it couldn't be more how it's expected to be if it tried. It's just like pretty much every other developing country in SE Asia and not too different to the rest world wide. The people see the world differently, the police are crooks, the education levels are far lower, morals are often different, etc etc.

What part of that is a surprise to you people? What part of that confuses you or makes your head hurt? Thailand is what it is and it is what it should be expected to be.

So Thai haters, why does it confuse you so greatly that a developing country in SE Asia is exactly like a developing country in SE Asia?

[can123]

I don't hate Thais. Will you please start another thread about Americans, and Australians, please ?

[thaimeme]

Backward oriental savages.

[buriramboy]

I'm not sure it's hatred in most people just frustration born out of not being able to communicate with the natives and expecting the same service as they get in the West be it in a restaurant or from the police and when they don't they are unable to express themselves due to not being to speak the lingo hence the frustration.

[chassamui]

In some ways Fozzy is right but probably for the wrong reasons. My view is that we all expect too much, not just from developing countries, but also from the west.

There were few critics when the British sent troops and ships worldwide to establish the Empire. There were few naysayers when the western industrial revolution gave the world steam trains, the telegraph and machinery that could do the jobs of twenty men.

We have the expectation that any third world country can develop the social, legal and democratic infrastructure that took us over 150 years to get where the west is now, in just a few decades. A bit unfair I think you will agree.

Even now the west, with all the benefits of hindsight and experience is struggling with graft and corporate greed. Third world and developing countries have had all this industrial and technological revolution thrust upon them, with more Gordon Gecko than William Wilberforce as a guide and mentor.

No wonder it all goes horribly wrong in our eyes. Will the Thai labour force become the next Tollpuddle Martyrs when automotive production moves to the low labour costs of Myanmar?

Have we learned nothing from history? Thailand is a great country to live in provided we bear in mind where they came from, where they are now, and where they will need to be in 10 years time.

[BaitongBoy]

Ask not what "your country" can do for you, but what you can do for....

[blue]

We have the expectation that any third world country can develop the social, legal and democratic infrastructure that took us over 150 years to get where the west is now, in just a few decades

Where the west is now ?
maybe better put as where the west was 20 or 30 years ago .
we are manging to unravel in a few decades...

Eg :
Eager to please 2nd world immigrants from shit holes like Poland have allowed employers to put union rights back 150 years - no overtime - no proper contracts - no weeks notice - no paid leave etc

Mentally ill people like faggots roaming the streets in ever increasing numbers , and being given vulnerable little children to adopt .


live and let live I say , if someone wants to go on a hate Thailand rant let them.

Let's try and do something really amazing and keep it civil and out of the DH for at least a day.

I'd like to take this opportunity to praise you for mending your ways and not getting Fozzy jailed in double quick time.

"What exactly are you expecting from a developing country in South East Asia, and where is Thailand falling short?"

Developing country is just a polite name that replaced 3rd world in the late 1980s.
It does not implicitly imply any kind of plan or path.
so why should not haters put the boot in when they see chances to develop wasted .

[Fozzy]

and expecting the same service as they get in the West

Nail on the head for me. I think people just refuse point blank to accept that a developing country isn't and can't possibly be anything like their home country. I know they 100% know that, I just don't understand why they refuse to acknowledge it and react accordingly.

In some ways Fozzy is right but probably for the wrong reasons

Well I guess a back handed compliment is as good as it's gonna get from you so I'll take it. Not sure why "for the wrong reasons" mind, as I agreed with everything you went on to say.

I'd like to take this opportunity to praise you for mending your ways and not getting Fozzy jailed in double quick time.

Don't know what you're on about. The first 2000 posts normally go just fine.

It does not implicitly imply any kind of plan or path.

Well that just goes to further my point. A third world country with no plan or path, and umpteen people can't get their heads around why things would be the way they are in a place like that.

so why should they not haters put the boot in when they see chances to develop wasted .

Nobody can stop them thinking or saying whatever they want. I can put the boot in to my neighbour's cat if I wanted to, doesn't mean I want to though.

if someone wants to go on a hate Thailand rant let them.

If people want to think in a way that they can't actually explain logically then that's their call. Not for me though.

[wasabi]

Wingging Poms, wing nuts everywhere, complaining about My spelling, Poms, whinging Poms, all day long , winging Pommies, whinging about the weather.

[Dillinger]

a developing country

Its 2014!!

I dont see Thailand breaking out of its chrysalis in my lifetime.It aint gonna be no Singapore soon.
We all know why that is too if we sit down and think about it?

How can you ever develop when there's that much corruption, the strongest xenophobic oppression and somethings not even we cant talk about.

where is this development exactly ?

[Dillinger]

When you do a search for Thailand, developing country...

** Thailand
Thailand remains on the list of developing countries as declared by the Minister for Foreign Affairs for the purposes of Overseas Aid Gift Deduction Scheme established by the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997. Donations collected for the purpose of implementing development activities in Thailand can therefore be considered to be tax deductible donations.
The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade—Australian Aid will not support activities in Thailand with ANCP funds unless they relate to Myanmar beneficiaries or are regional. Activities in Thailand which assist Myanmar refugees and Myanmar migrants are classified and reported as Myanmar activities.

Like waking up without a Thai freelance, check your pockets all you like, that cnut has done you

[Fozzy]

a developing country

Its 2014!!

I dont see Thailand breaking out of its chrysalis in my lifetime.It aint gonna be no Singapore soon.
We all know why that is too if we sit down and think about it?

How can you ever develop when there's that much corruption, the strongest xenophobic oppression and somethings not even we cant talk about.

where is this development exactly ?

Well just like I said to Blue, Thailand being like that makes my point even stronger. I just call it a developing country because that's what it's officially known as. To me it doesn't matter what name you give it, it is what it is.

My very point is that how can people live in a country that you describe as being worse than developing, and then act so fucking bemused and surprised when things are the way they are.

This isn't about me praising Thailand it's about people's inability to accept and deal with the fact that the country is exactly how it should be or is most likely going to be, considering what and where it is. People want and expect it to be better than it's fair to do so.

It's like buying a Ford Escort and then being angry and frustrated that it doesn't drive like a Ferrari.

[Dillinger]

It's like buying a Ford Escort and then being angry and frustrated that it doesn't drive like a Ferrari.

This is where you have gone wrong Fozzy, I really enjoyed your thread about Phuket, but you doing a beautiful 6 week holiday there, then getting back to normality is far removed from those who have up sticks and probably put everything they have into making a life in that "developing" xenophobic country.they now call home. They bought the Ferrari with that shite Ford gearbox and found out the big ends gone.
It is a beautiful country for sure for a holiday, but I wouldnt wanna make it my permanent home and I wont

[Fozzy]

^ You're missing the point mate. I've spent 3 years in Thailand probably more but that's not even close to being relevant.

I knew what to expect from Thailand before I ever got on the plane for the first time and what I didn't know I soon learnt very quickly. The post you have just made has got nothing to do with my OP. It doesn't matter where in the world either party is but their ability to accept and understand what a developing/worse than developing whatever you want to label it, country is like, instead of having unrealistic expectations that then make them angry and frustrated when they obviously don't work out that way.

last time I was in Thailand (before the holiday just gone ) I was there for 10 months and six months before that with a 3 month gap. So I was there for 16 months out of a 19 month period. Now you list as many things as you can think of that I didn't see or experience during that 16 months that others have, that allows them a better understanding of what it's like to live in Thailand among Thai people. Were all the bent coppers on holiday during that 16 months? Were all the Thai people acting differently for my benefit for 16 months? If you really want to believe that I haven't experienced enough of Thailand to know 100% exactly what it's like then that's your call, but it's a cop out for people that can't put in to words a justification for feeling the illogical way they do IMO.

The reality is that all the "you don't live there" and my favourite "you're wearing rose coloured specs" comments are just blatant attempts for people to brush reality under the carpet. The reality being that they're highly illogical and completely incapable of accepting Thailand the way it is, and basically want to be living in a hot tropical, cheap, developing country but it still be just like home. Doesn't exist does it which is why they end up so frustrated.

[Fozzy]

is far removed from those who have up sticks and probably put everything they have into making a life in that "developing" xenophobic country.they now call home.

Sorry mate no sympathy for them at all. Who the fuck moves to a country without knowing exactly what it's like to live there first.

The mistake you're making Dill is that you're thinking that I'm defending Thailand and that I'm anti the negative comments about it. It's nothing to do with that. I know EXACTLY what Thailand is like, it's the other people who act as if it's all a big shock to them all the time. How have they not managed to come to terms with it yet?

[thaimeme]

Hmmm...

In reference to Abbey's thematic OP.

Largely, not so much hate in most instances, [yet illogical hatred amongst others] but instead replaced by the highly developed conditioned illusion of cultural superiority versus a supposed inferiority - hence the ever popular standards and use of unnecessary superlatives and comparatives.

Less an emotion, but more so a deepened ideology that spurs similar pathologies of extravagance and apparitions of an exceptional and extraordinary trait. One could almost appreciate that such is DNA written - even though biologically it isn't.

The haters {sic} are fixed of illusory perception, delusions of grandeur, megalomania, etc which are psychotic beliefs and sociopathic states that seemed be admired and championed throughout the same suspected individuals and related cultural circles.

Such character naturally exist throughout all of social orders to lesser or greater degrees, yet nowhere is this digested more rampant than The West....most particular amongst the Anglo speaking West - illusion is their bane an what existence is based upon.

[Yasojack]

Most of the Thai haters brigade, should just go back to the miserable existence in there home countries and let the Thais get on with being happy go lucky people.

or come over to Dr Yaso's new thread for Miserable Bstards.

[thaimeme]

Most of the Thai haters brigade, should just go back to the miserable existence in there home countries and let the Thais get on with being happy go lucky people.

or come over to Dr Yaso's new thread for Miserable Bstards.

The hate doesn't necessarily need to be directed towards Thais for this species.
Could be Japan, India, Zaire, Bolivia, wherever....
Hypothetically, any locale where they're an expat in residence - especially somewhere not their own.

It's this fancy of superiority thing.

[Yasojack]

don't usually green you jeff, but my love for you is growing.

[Loy Toy]

Who the fuck moves to a country without knowing exactly what it's like to live there first.

I know EXACTLY what Thailand is like

2 sweeping statements from a person I suspect doesn't have a clue.

[Yasojack]

Yep and has been known to post many negatives about the country.

Who the fuck moves to a country without knowing exactly what it's like to live there first.

I know EXACTLY what Thailand is like

2 sweeping statements from a person I suspect doesn't have a clue.

[chassamui]

Well I guess a back handed compliment is as good as it's gonna get from you so I'll take it. Not sure why "for the wrong reasons" mind, as I agreed with everything you went on to say.

The OP claims that there is no reason or logic behind criticisms of Thailand. I believe our expectations are simply too high based on our history, and their perceived inability to fit similar levels of development into a much shorter time frame.
They will get there eventually, and the freedom to criticise and speak ones mind is now enshrined in the west, as this forum frequently demonstrates.
In short you say no logic, I say flawed logic.

[Pragmatic]

I don't actually think that the 'Thai haters' hate Thailand, or it's people. It's just frustration that builds up due to the things the Thais do which are basically irritatingly wrong or plain stupid, example being, driving down the wrong side of a road whilst flashing their lights to tell you to get out of the way.
Having diced with the possibility of either being killed or maimed by them frustration has built up and conversing with other farangs gives one an opportunity to sound off.
Basically a 'Thai hater' wouldn't want to live in Thailand. Or may be I'm wrong?

[Yasojack]

Pragmatic they love the cheap living.