Thread: UK Muslim leaders demand that Cameron call the Islamic State the “Un-Islamic State”

The idea that the Islamic State is “unislamic” is absurd on its face. And Muslim leaders demanding that Cameron say it is just another form of jihad. Cameron may well submit despite all his rhetoric.

Isn’t it enough that Cameron on Islamic State’s claim to be Islamic: said “Nonsense, Islam is a religion of peace.” That’s not enough? Apparently not.

“UK Muslim leaders demand that Cameron call the Islamic State the “Un-Islamic State” Jihadwatch, September 15, 2014

“Using the group’s preferred name could help it radicalise yet more Britons, the signatories wrote.” So apparently they would have us believe that David Cameron calling the Islamic State “the Islamic State” will make young Muslims in Britain think that it is an Islamic State, and that they must go wage jihad on its behalf. And that makes sense, since David Cameron is such a renowned imam, his word on Islam commands singular respect among Muslims.

But what are the Islamic Society of Britain, New Horizons in British Islam, the Association of British Muslims and the Association of Muslim Lawyers doing to teach young Muslims that the Islamic State’s understanding of Islam is wrong? Are they taking any steps at all in that direction, or are all their efforts aimed at keeping the kuffar ignorant and complacent?

“Isis should be called the ‘Un-Islamic State': British Muslims call on David Cameron to stop spread of propaganda,” by Andrew Griffin, the Independent, September 14, 2014 (thanks to Jerk Chicken):

Calling the terror group that today claimed to have killed another aid worker the Islamic State legitimises it, and politicians should stop using its preferred name to help halt the radicalisation of British Muslims, leading groups have said.

A group of prominent Muslims has written to David Cameron to ask that he uses a different name for the group, and to lead a national debate on what it should be called.

“We propose that ‘Un-Islamic State’ (UIS) could be an accurate and fair alternative name to describe this group and its agenda – and we will begin to call it that,” the letter says.

Signatories to the letter include Sughra Ahmed, the president of the Islamic Society of Britain. Members of New Horizons in British Islam, the Association of British Muslims and the Association of Muslim Lawyers also signed the letter.

Using the group’s preferred name could help it radicalise yet more Britons, the signatories wrote.

“We need to work together and make sure that these fanatics don’t get the propaganda that they feed off,” the letter says.

“This isn’t going to fix the problem of some young people in our community being radicalised by extremists. There’s more we need to do, together, to tackle that.

“But confronting this falsehood, that it’s somehow ‘Islamic’ to go off to Iraq or Syria and murder people, is a step in the right direction.”

Security services believe as many as 500 Britons have gone to the Middle East to fight, and British politicians have raised fears about jihadis returning to Britain.

The letter was released just before Isis released a video claiming to have killed a British aid worker.

- See more at: UK Muslim leaders demand that Cameron call the Islamic State the

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about these so called leaders instead demand that IS stops slaughtering innocent men, women and children in the name of their so called God ?

Will that work? No, of course not.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about denouncing anyone that goes to fight with these religious savages and religiously disowns them ?

Dr Qari Asim, Imam of Leeds Makkah Mosque, denounced them yesterday. Will it stop them going? No, of course not. Would the IS fighters care? No.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The only way that these savages will be stopped is when the so called moderate Muslims we are forever getting told about but never see or hear rise up and call these people anti Muslims!

Isn't that what some have just done according to the OP? And Sayed Ali Abbas Razawi, from Majlis-e-Ulama also did yesterday? Open your eyes and you will see. Open your ears and you will hear.

But, will it have any effect on recruitment? In my opinion, no.

When I see 'moderate Muslims' protesting against fukked up, mentally retarded, off the scale Muslims, then I will believe there is a place for Muslims in the modern world.

A surfeit of oxymorons

But they can only see the Oxy

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about these so called leaders instead demand that IS stops slaughtering innocent men, women and children in the name of their so called God ?

Will that work? No, of course not.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about denouncing anyone that goes to fight with these religious savages and religiously disowns them ?

Dr Qari Asim, Imam of Leeds Makkah Mosque, denounced them yesterday. Will it stop them going? No, of course not. Would the IS fighters care? No.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The only way that these savages will be stopped is when the so called moderate Muslims we are forever getting told about but never see or hear rise up and call these people anti Muslims!

Isn't that what some have just done according to the OP? And Sayed Ali Abbas Razawi, from Majlis-e-Ulama also did yesterday? Open your eyes and you will see. Open your ears and you will hear.

But, will it have any effect on recruitment? In my opinion, no.

Do you remember when a newspaper dared to publish a cartoon of the prophet ? Do you remember the worldwide demonstrations against this ? carnage, death and destruction on a major scale. That is what I want to see not you telling me some never before heard of imam from a mosque in leeds saying they are naughty muslims.
I am sick of hearing Western politicians calling Islam a religion of peace. What religion of peace kills homosexuals, stones to death a woman who talks to a man not her husband or where leaving islam is an automatic death sentence ? How many heads has Saudi Arabia lopped off this year in the name of Sharia ?
Peace my arse !

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about these so called leaders instead demand that IS stops slaughtering innocent men, women and children in the name of their so called God ?

They have - read.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about denouncing anyone that goes to fight with these religious savages and religiously disowns them ?

Simplistic to the extreme - they are denounced and tried in court in many countries . . as for 'religiously disowning' anyone . . . you do know how religion works, don't you?

I'd love to hear your explanation of how someone can be 'religiously disowned'

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The only way that these savages will be stopped is when the so called moderate Muslims we are forever getting told about but never see or hear rise up and call these people anti Muslims!

Yet again - read, or listen. Sadly that doesn't appeal to your inherent bigotry . . .

So, now that your ramblings have been countered, what do you come up with next?

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Do you remember when a newspaper dared to publish a cartoon of the prophet ? Do you remember the worldwide demonstrations against this ? carnage, death and destruction on a major scale. That is what I want to see not you telling me some never before heard of imam from a mosque in leeds saying they are naughty muslims.
I am sick of hearing Western politicians calling Islam a religion of peace. What religion of peace kills homosexuals, stones to death a woman who talks to a man not her husband or where leaving islam is an automatic death sentence ? How many heads has Saudi Arabia lopped off this year in the name of Sharia ?
Peace my arse !

Yes, the usual bigoted, waffling, incoherent crap.

(Did you protest in the streets when the US and Britain bombed civilians in Iraq? Afghanistan? Vietnam . . . ? No? You should then be 'religiously disowned')

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about these so called leaders instead demand that IS stops slaughtering innocent men, women and children in the name of their so called God ?

Will that work? No, of course not.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about denouncing anyone that goes to fight with these religious savages and religiously disowns them ?

Dr Qari Asim, Imam of Leeds Makkah Mosque, denounced them yesterday. Will it stop them going? No, of course not. Would the IS fighters care? No.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The only way that these savages will be stopped is when the so called moderate Muslims we are forever getting told about but never see or hear rise up and call these people anti Muslims!

Isn't that what some have just done according to the OP? And Sayed Ali Abbas Razawi, from Majlis-e-Ulama also did yesterday? Open your eyes and you will see. Open your ears and you will hear.

But, will it have any effect on recruitment? In my opinion, no.

Do you remember when a newspaper dared to publish a cartoon of the prophet ? Do you remember the worldwide demonstrations against this ? carnage, death and destruction on a major scale. That is what I want to see not you telling me some never before heard of imam from a mosque in leeds saying they are naughty muslims.
I am sick of hearing Western politicians calling Islam a religion of peace. What religion of peace kills homosexuals, stones to death a woman who talks to a man not her husband or where leaving islam is an automatic death sentence ? How many heads has Saudi Arabia lopped off this year in the name of Sharia ?
Peace my arse !

You are confusing a religion with what some people do in the name of religion and what some states do based on their laws. You are also focusing on Islam. Look a bit wider and you will see plenty of deaths at the hands of non-Muslims. Yes, death is universal and does not discriminate based on religion.

3000 people killed in Ukraine in the last 5 months. Not likely many killed by Muslims.
Over 2000 people killed in Gaza this year- mostly from Israeli rockets and bullets but a few by Muslims.
I believe there have been more than a few thousand deaths in Mexico over the past lord knows how many years. Nothing to do with Islam. I doubt any/many were killed by Muslims.

The world is full of different peoples with different cultures and religions. Even in Thailand, where people can be jailed for many years for saying something negative against the head of state. It is illegal to burn a flag in some countries, even in Europe. It is illegal to deny the holocaust in a European country. Different countries, different laws. So you don't like the death penalty. Don't go to countries that have it. Thailand, USA, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, to name a few. You want to be free to practise homosexuality. Stay away from countries where it is illegal. Want to leave Islam? Don't live in a country where it is illegal or where it carries the death penalty. You can do it in the UK. You see, it's not a simple case of "religion", it's the laws of the land. Stoning to death, head chopping off, I agree, not nice, but lethal injection, hanging, bullet through the head, bombed to bits, rocket in the rectum. Not nice either. Equally dead at the end.

There is not peace in the world. I can't remember a time when there was peace in the world. Can you? Don't fret the small stuff Big Fella. Western politicians talk shite. We all know that, but I doubt they are alone in that. Don't take what they say seriously. It's rhetoric. Nothing more.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about these so called leaders instead demand that IS stops slaughtering innocent men, women and children in the name of their so called God ?

Will that work? No, of course not.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about denouncing anyone that goes to fight with these religious savages and religiously disowns them ?

Dr Qari Asim, Imam of Leeds Makkah Mosque, denounced them yesterday. Will it stop them going? No, of course not. Would the IS fighters care? No.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The only way that these savages will be stopped is when the so called moderate Muslims we are forever getting told about but never see or hear rise up and call these people anti Muslims!

Isn't that what some have just done according to the OP? And Sayed Ali Abbas Razawi, from Majlis-e-Ulama also did yesterday? Open your eyes and you will see. Open your ears and you will hear.

But, will it have any effect on recruitment? In my opinion, no.

Do you remember when a newspaper dared to publish a cartoon of the prophet ? Do you remember the worldwide demonstrations against this ? carnage, death and destruction on a major scale. That is what I want to see not you telling me some never before heard of imam from a mosque in leeds saying they are naughty muslims.
I am sick of hearing Western politicians calling Islam a religion of peace. What religion of peace kills homosexuals, stones to death a woman who talks to a man not her husband or where leaving islam is an automatic death sentence ? How many heads has Saudi Arabia lopped off this year in the name of Sharia ?
Peace my arse !

You are confusing a religion with what some people do in the name of religion and what some states do based on their laws. You are also focusing on Islam. Look a bit wider and you will see plenty of deaths at the hands of non-Muslims. Yes, death is universal and does not discriminate based on religion.

3000 people killed in Ukraine in the last 5 months. Not likely many killed by Muslims.
Over 2000 people killed in Gaza this year- mostly from Israeli rockets and bullets but a few by Muslims.
I believe there have been more than a few thousand deaths in Mexico over the past lord knows how many years. Nothing to do with Islam. I doubt any/many were killed by Muslims.

The world is full of different peoples with different cultures and religions. Even in Thailand, where people can be jailed for many years for saying something negative against the head of state. It is illegal to burn a flag in some countries, even in Europe. It is illegal to deny the holocaust in a European country. Different countries, different laws. So you don't like the death penalty. Don't go to countries that have it. Thailand, USA, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, to name a few. You want to be free to practise homosexuality. Stay away from countries where it is illegal. Want to leave Islam? Don't live in a country where it is illegal or where it carries the death penalty. You can do it in the UK. You see, it's not a simple case of "religion", it's the laws of the land. Stoning to death, head chopping off, I agree, not nice, but lethal injection, hanging, bullet through the head, bombed to bits, rocket in the rectum. Not nice either. Equally dead at the end.

There is not peace in the world. I can't remember a time when there was peace in the world. Can you? Don't fret the small stuff Big Fella. Western politicians talk shite. We all know that, but I doubt they are alone in that. Don't take what they say seriously. It's rhetoric. Nothing more.

Well presented, mate....
Such straight forward logic will be lost by many.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Such straight forward logic will be lost by many.

Especially the bigot brigade

But why aren't all the muslim leaders issuing fatwahs, excommunicating and calling for jihad against IS?
Surely IS is profaning their religion in the worst possible way.

There were fatwahs and calls for jihad over some cartoons a few years ago, surely this is worse?

Originally Posted by Necron99

But why aren't all the muslim leaders issuing fatwahs, excommunicating and calling for jihad against IS?
Surely IS is profaning their religion in the worst possible way.

There were fatwahs and calls for jihad over some cartoons a few years ago, surely this is worse?

Brethren stand as one, regardless of their differences.
It's really all about the infidels.

Originally Posted by Neverna

You are confusing a religion with what some people do in the name of religion and what some states do based on their laws. You are also focusing on Islam. Look a bit wider and you will see plenty of deaths at the hands of non-Muslims. Yes, death is universal and does not discriminate based on religion.

3000 people killed in Ukraine in the last 5 months. Not likely many killed by Muslims.
Over 2000 people killed in Gaza this year- mostly from Israeli rockets and bullets but a few by Muslims.
I believe there have been more than a few thousand deaths in Mexico over the past lord knows how many years. Nothing to do with Islam. I doubt any/many were killed by Muslims.

The world is full of different peoples with different cultures and religions. Even in Thailand, where people can be jailed for many years for saying something negative against the head of state. It is illegal to burn a flag in some countries, even in Europe. It is illegal to deny the holocaust in a European country. Different countries, different laws. So you don't like the death penalty. Don't go to countries that have it. Thailand, USA, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, to name a few. You want to be free to practise homosexuality. Stay away from countries where it is illegal. Want to leave Islam? Don't live in a country where it is illegal or where it carries the death penalty. You can do it in the UK. You see, it's not a simple case of "religion", it's the laws of the land. Stoning to death, head chopping off, I agree, not nice, but lethal injection, hanging, bullet through the head, bombed to bits, rocket in the rectum. Not nice either. Equally dead at the end.

There is not peace in the world..

Ok, great rhetoric on your part.


But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Does it matter if a war is for a supposed god? Or for an ideology? A piece of land in a far off place? Oil? Money? Historical grievances? Geo-politics? A sense of superiority? Showing who is top dog? What's the difference?

Originally Posted by quimbian corholla

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Oh come on! Since the beginning of time virtually every side in every conflict has claimed to have god or righteousness or whatever on their side. It's SOP.

What political leader would get up and say, "We are going to war! God doesn't want us to and has assured us of a sound thrashing but I reckon he's just kidding so line up and get marching!"

Get off it!

Who in this day and age goes off and starts a war because of some sort of perceived infringement or insult to their religion other than Muslims in the name of Islam and their god?

Have Xtians (other than for a few screwball African or other 3rd world cults masquerading as such) declared war on other religions lately?

Have Buddhists declared war on Hindus lately or vice versa?

Oh, yes, Burmese Buddhist monks attacked Rohingya/Muslims in Burma last year, but nope, there hasn't been a religious war waged by anyone except by mad ragheads in the recent past.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Does it matter if a war is for a supposed god? Or for an ideology? A piece of land in a far off place? Oil? Money? Historical grievances? Geo-politics? A sense of superiority? Showing who is top dog? What's the difference?

The difference is that ragheads are currently waging wars upon each other and anyone else they like (at their convenience) in the name of and to support a belief in a mythical (totally imaginary) god that they want everyone else to believe in on pain of death.

There's no proof of the existence of their god, there's no such god, except in their own twisted minds, and some people, like you support their right to shove their twisted beliefs down the world's collective throat as if it was all a great friendly love-in.

Money is real, land is real, politics and ideologies along with religions are all bullshit invented in to suit the purposes of megalomaniacs and psychopaths.

Where the hell's your head at?

Lalaland?

I take your point Neo (post#16),....Bush got all religious about his war mongering, the sico psychopath!!

Look what he did on 9/11/2001!!!

He used to hold daily prayer meetings to bullshit his staff as well!

Originally Posted by Koojo

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

How about these so called leaders instead demand that IS stops slaughtering innocent men, women and children in the name of their so called God ?

Will that work? No, of course not.

Dr Qari Asim, Imam of Leeds Makkah Mosque, denounced them yesterday. Will it stop them going? No, of course not. Would the IS fighters care? No.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The only way that these savages will be stopped is when the so called moderate Muslims we are forever getting told about but never see or hear rise up and call these people anti Muslims!

Isn't that what some have just done according to the OP? And Sayed Ali Abbas Razawi, from Majlis-e-Ulama also did yesterday? Open your eyes and you will see. Open your ears and you will hear.

But, will it have any effect on recruitment? In my opinion, no.

Do you remember when a newspaper dared to publish a cartoon of the prophet ? Do you remember the worldwide demonstrations against this ? carnage, death and destruction on a major scale. That is what I want to see not you telling me some never before heard of imam from a mosque in leeds saying they are naughty muslims.
I am sick of hearing Western politicians calling Islam a religion of peace. What religion of peace kills homosexuals, stones to death a woman who talks to a man not her husband or where leaving islam is an automatic death sentence ? How many heads has Saudi Arabia lopped off this year in the name of Sharia ?
Peace my arse !

You are confusing a religion with what some people do in the name of religion and what some states do based on their laws. You are also focusing on Islam. Look a bit wider and you will see plenty of deaths at the hands of non-Muslims. Yes, death is universal and does not discriminate based on religion.

3000 people killed in Ukraine in the last 5 months. Not likely many killed by Muslims.
Over 2000 people killed in Gaza this year- mostly from Israeli rockets and bullets but a few by Muslims.
I believe there have been more than a few thousand deaths in Mexico over the past lord knows how many years. Nothing to do with Islam. I doubt any/many were killed by Muslims.

The world is full of different peoples with different cultures and religions. Even in Thailand, where people can be jailed for many years for saying something negative against the head of state. It is illegal to burn a flag in some countries, even in Europe. It is illegal to deny the holocaust in a European country. Different countries, different laws. So you don't like the death penalty. Don't go to countries that have it. Thailand, USA, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, to name a few. You want to be free to practise homosexuality. Stay away from countries where it is illegal. Want to leave Islam? Don't live in a country where it is illegal or where it carries the death penalty. You can do it in the UK. You see, it's not a simple case of "religion", it's the laws of the land. Stoning to death, head chopping off, I agree, not nice, but lethal injection, hanging, bullet through the head, bombed to bits, rocket in the rectum. Not nice either. Equally dead at the end.

There is not peace in the world. I can't remember a time when there was peace in the world. Can you? Don't fret the small stuff Big Fella. Western politicians talk shite. We all know that, but I doubt they are alone in that. Don't take what they say seriously. It's rhetoric. Nothing more.

sounds like you're making excuses.
That's among the stupidest posts on the board.

I wasn't making excuses. I was making the point that people of all religions (and of no religion) kill and that if you don't like a lifestyle or set of laws, stay away from that country. Pretty simple really. I don't expect every country to have laws and behaviours that match exactly my wishes. It seems to me that other people who want the world to look and act like some US suburb or English country village are somewhat deluded in their outlook, not to mention arrogant and chauvinistic.

Originally Posted by Neo

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Precisely

Islam is as responsible for wars as Christianity - meaning not at all. It is a religion, an ideology - you should concentrate on the people waging war.

Everyone in my office is for getting rid of these morons simply because they, among others, are giving Islam a bad name but they find it hollow for the west to go on and on about how awful 'Islam' is when we can look at the recent 'Christian'-led wars starting in Vietnam and ending up in Afghanistan.

We don't differentiate between some foaming-at-the-mouth IL idiots and some IT grad in san Jose or Kuala Lumpur - we lob them all into the same group . . . . yet when the tables are turned we look at western countries and people as individuals

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Does it matter if a war is for a supposed god? Or for an ideology? A piece of land in a far off place? Oil? Money? Historical grievances? Geo-politics? A sense of superiority? Showing who is top dog? What's the difference?

The difference is that ragheads are currently waging wars upon each other and anyone else they like (at their convenience) in the name of and to support a belief in a mythical (totally imaginary) god that they want everyone else to believe in on pain of death.

There's no proof of the existence of their god, there's no such god, except in their own twisted minds, and some people, like you support their right to shove their twisted beliefs down the world's collective throat as if it was all a great friendly love-in.

Money is real, land is real, politics and ideologies along with religions are all bullshit invented in to suit the purposes of megalomaniacs and psychopaths.

Where the hell's your head at?

Lalaland?

Read my post again about the other thousands of people killed by non-muslims and for reasons not related to religion. Yet you focus on Muslims and Islam. So you don't believe in god or God. Great. Fine with me. You won't find me arguing against you. Go tell Tony Blair, G Bush and the millions of other believers of "bullshit" religions.

You said that "politics and ideologies along with religions are all bullshit invented in to suit the purposes of megalomaniacs and psychopaths". Go tell the world. Sing it out loud. So many wars and deaths around the world throughout the ages caused by differences in politics, ideologies and religion. Out of curiosity, would you ban all ideologies, religions and politics?

"Money is real, land is real". Sure, but more money can be printed. Just ask a few Americans about that. And land, there's plenty in the world for all who live here but folks get fixated on fences and borders, my land and their land, us and them. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that's how it is, and it leads to differences and sometimes wars. It's not new and it's not specific to Muslims.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by ENT

But tell me, who else goes around waging war in the name of a supposed god?

Does it matter if a war is for a supposed god? Or for an ideology? A piece of land in a far off place? Oil? Money? Historical grievances? Geo-politics? A sense of superiority? Showing who is top dog? What's the difference?

The difference is that ragheads are currently waging wars upon each other and anyone else they like (at their convenience) in the name of and to support a belief in a mythical (totally imaginary) god that they want everyone else to believe in on pain of death.

There's no proof of the existence of their god, there's no such god, except in their own twisted minds, and some people, like you support their right to shove their twisted beliefs down the world's collective throat as if it was all a great friendly love-in.

Money is real, land is real, politics and ideologies along with religions are all bullshit invented in to suit the purposes of megalomaniacs and psychopaths.

Where the hell's your head at?

Lalaland?

Read my post again about the other thousands of people killed by non-muslims and for reasons not related to religion. Yet you focus on Muslims and Islam. So you don't believe in god or God. Great. Fine with me. You won't find me arguing against you. Go tell Tony Blair, G Bush and the millions of other believers of "bullshit" religions.

What's your point?
In a nutshell.
That it's OK for IS to wage war against non believers because others wage war for other reasons?