Isis beheading video brings calls for rethink of UK domestic terrorism fight

**Fluke** · 25-08-2014, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

^ Agreed- but I would say the same thing about the Britsh volunteers for the IDF. At least one was killed in Gaza.
If they wanna go to fight for some foreign nation or foreign cause, they relinquish British citizenship.

That depends whether they are fighting against the U.K or not .
Persons should be allowed to go and join any war they like , but once they start attacking British interests , they will have to face the consequences .
Maybe the U.K. could do what Hamas does . Although that would be a war crime

**Neverna** · 25-08-2014, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by Neverna

You're almost there, Fluke. You at least agree now that it is not fact. As I said earlier, it's an opinion but if you want to put the best spin on it and say it's a prediction, then OK. Up to you. But it's not a fact. At least we agree on that now.

I said from the beginning that its "highly likely" .

The beginning? You first mentioned "highly likely" in post 19. My first post reponding to one of your posts was post 13. In post 14 you said it was reality. My post 15, opinion. Your post 16, reality. Your post 24, prediction.

No need to go round in circles, Fluke. You've changed your opinion slightly - from fact to prediction. No problem. Move on. We've discussed the point and our opinions are now closer than before. Isn't that one of the benefits of having discussions? I certainly think so. Now I won't bomb you and I can sleep well tonight because I think you are now less likely to bomb me than before. Win win.

**neemo** · 26-08-2014, 06:12 AM

For Fluke, a bit of history:
Revealed: MI5's Jewish terrorism fear | The Jewish Chronicle

**sabang** · 26-08-2014, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Fluke

The Jihadists have a desire to make the whole World Islamic , which means waging war on the UK . Israelis have no such desire .

The Israeli's have a desire to usurp Palestine and make it Jewish. This, and the violence and repression they pursue in pursuit of this agenda (plus western acquiescence) is a root cause of a good deal of Islamic grievances against the west, and a fair amount of terrorism. They are also the worlds largest transgressor nation when it comes to UN condemnation, and continue their egregious policy- flipping the bird to the international community. They are already the recipient of (piss weak) sanctions from the EU, and these are only likely to increase over time. They are no allies of ours.

Originally Posted by Fluke

We both have a common enemy .

Isis and the UK have a common enemy too, being the Syrian government. Does that make us friends?

Originally Posted by Fluke

Are Israelis waging war against the West ? No

They are certainly waging a war against western values, and international law. More to the point, far, far more Brit's have been murdered by Israeli terrorists than by Palestinian. 91 were killed in the 1943 bombing of the King David hotel alone.
But you say Britain is immune, this shit only happened in Palestine/ Israel? Not so-
In 1947 the Colonial Office in Whitehall survived a Stern Gang bomb — only because the timer failed — and the same group sent letter bombs to British politicians that year.
Revealed: MI5's Jewish terrorism fear | The Jewish Chronicle

We could easily see radicalised Israeli's & Jews turning to terrorist acts against the west and western interests again, particularly as international pressure steps up to resolve the long standing grievance of their ongoing actions in (post '67) Palestine.

**ENT** · 26-08-2014, 09:58 AM

Palestine in the beginning?

"This article is about the historical geographic region. For the sovereign state (country), see State of Palestine. For the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, see Palestinian territories. For other uses, see Palestine (disambiguation).
Page semi-protected
Palestine is located in Asia

Boundaries of Roman Syria Palaestina, where dashed green line shows the boundary between Byzantine Palaestina Prima (later Jund Filastin) and Palaestina Secunda (later Jund al-Urdunn), as well as Palaestina Salutaris (later Jebel et-Tih and the Jifar)
Borders of Mandatory Palestine
Borders of the State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip)

Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn; Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: פלשתינה Palestina) is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories. The name was used by Ancient Greek writers, and was later used for the Roman province Syria Palaestina, the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. The region is also known as the Land of Israel (Hebrew: ארץ־ישראל Eretz-Yisra'el),[1] the Holy Land, the Southern Levant,[2] Cisjordan, and historically has been known by other names including Canaan, Southern Syria and Jerusalem.

Situated at a strategic location between Egypt, Syria and Arabia, and the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, the region has a long and tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. The region has been controlled by numerous different peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians.

Boundaries of the region have changed throughout history, and were last defined in modern times by the Franco-British boundary agreement (1920) and the Transjordan memorandum of 16 September 1922, during the mandate period.[3] Today, the region comprises the State of Israel and Palestinian territories in which the State of Palestine was declared.[3]
Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then;
In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of that holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment in the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx -- yes, that Karl Marx.)

In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine. This is how he described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human."

In 1882, official Ottoman Turk census figures showed that, in the entire Land of Israel, there were only 141 000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.

A travel guide to Palestine and Syria was published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker; The book estimated the total population of Jerusalem at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.

As the Jews came and drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, Arabs followed. They came for jobs, for prosperity, for freedom. And, they came in large numbers.

In 1922, with what was widely acknowledged as the illegal separation of Transjordan, the Jews were forbidden to settle on almost 77% of Palestine, while Arab settlement went unrestricted and actually encouraged by British mandatory authority.

Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the idea "that all the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be divided up amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come to Palestine."

Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until 1920? Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941; the borders of Jordan were established in 1946, and Kuwait in 1961.

Any of these nations that would say Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own rights as recent arrivals as well.

They did not exist as countries. They were all under the control of the Turks.

Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to Arabs, without population transfer of Arabs from the land designated for Jews.

In 1947, the Jewish state huddled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. The Jews accepted it gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.

In 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.

Some 850,000 Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab countries, due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is claimed to be around 630,000 (but where did they get this number?). Based on population census, the estimated number of Arabs who left Israel was around 460,000. They were ordered to leave by Arab leaders at the time.

From 1948 till 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated, 58 synagogues in Jerusalem were destroyed, and the Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1964 only, on the initiative of Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat. The idea became popular Arab propaganda tool after Israel re-captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza in the defensive Six-Day War of 1967,

Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab-Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel.

Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.

There is only one Jewish state. There are 60 Muslim countries, including 22 Arab nations.

The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.

Pan-Arabism, or the doctrine of Muslim Caliphate, declares that all land that used to belong to Muslims must be returned to them. Thus, Spain, for example, must eventually be re-conquered.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...9091219AAmi8nj

**zygote1** · 26-08-2014, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

We could easily see radicalised Israeli's & Jews turning to terrorist acts against the west and western interests again, particularly as international pressure steps up to resolve the long standing grievance of their ongoing actions in (post '67) Palestine.

Will that be after they kidnap Christian children and drain their blood to make their Passover bread?

The MI5 of 1947 to which the report is attributed was infested with communist spies and depraved perverts. Considering that the likes of Burgess, Philby and many others were in positions of trust and authority, betraying British interests, it seems that there was less to fear from the jews than there was of the Cambridge popinjays who looked upon anyone who wasn't part of their gang of leftist sodomites as posing a threat. The jews were such a threat that the British 3 years earlier, were able to raise a brigade in Palestine and send them to Europe to fight the Germans and Italians. They did this while the grand mufti of Jerusalem, the muslim leader, was cavorting with Hitler and encouraging his followers to join the Nazis.

There are millions of people in North America who have family members who willingly killed British colonial occupational forces. The USA gets giddy about its revolution and you can't spit in some cities without hitting something that celebrates the guerrilla war that freed the USA. There are many Canadians after whom public infrastructure is named in honour of their actions during the various rebellions and uprisings. Names like William Lyon Mackenzie, Samuel Lount, Enoch Moore were responsible for multiple deaths. To the British occupiers they were criminals; to Canadians, they were and still are heroes. Which brings us to a reality check. The British continued to occupy Israel long after their mandate had technically ended. Remember the Balfour declaration of 1917? The conflict that occurred in Palestine was typical of what occurred as dying empires faced changing times and could no longer force their will on weaker regions. The loss of life in Palestine was nothing in comparison to the bloodfests that occurred in former African colonies as the Africans sought to throw off the yoke of colonial bondage. Remember the 8 year Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya? There was certainly far less strife and loss of life than occurred in Arab countries as they tossed the British colonial forces out. Study your history.

**sabang** · 26-08-2014, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ENT

There is only one Jewish state.

Yes, it is called Israel. The problem is Palestine- and the answer is either the one state solution, or two. Annex/combine- or withdraw. It isn't just going to go away, any more than the Israeli's and Palestinians are going to mysteriously evaporate. So why is the Israeli government still playing this stoopid and brutal game, when all they will actually achieve by their footdragging and denial, is to make the two state solution impossible to achieve, and the one state solution a demographic inevitability? Thus betraying the expressed preference of the Jewish and Israeli people.

**sabang** · 26-08-2014, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by zygote1

The jews were such a threat that the British 3 years earlier, were able to raise a brigade in Palestine and send them to Europe to fight the Germans and Italians.

And others, such as the Stern gang, sided with the Germans. Strange decision, when you consider the Holocaust.

I don't know what the point of your post is- without even referring to your ridiculous first paragraph.
Are Jews and Israeli's capable of terrorism? yes
Have they committed acts of terrorism? yes
Have they attempted acts of terrorism in the UK? yes
The US? yes

Plain fact is, every people are capable of acts of terrorism. What left leaning double agents in cold war Britain have to do with the attempted letter bombing of UK government agencies and Ministers by Jewish terrorists, or the King David atrocity, or for that matter the assasination of a senior UN official, utterly evades me.

**ENT** · 26-08-2014, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by ENT

There is only one Jewish state.

Yes, it is called Israel. The problem is Palestine- and the answer is either the one state solution, or two. Annex/combine- or withdraw. It isn't just going to go away, any more than the Israeli's and Palestinians are going to mysteriously evaporate. So why is the Israeli government still playing this stoopid and brutal game, when all they will actually achieve by their footdragging and denial, is to make the two state solution impossible to achieve, and the one state solution a demographic inevitability? Thus betraying the expressed preference of the Jewish and Israeli people.

It takes two to tango, mate.

Hamas et al aren't doing much to help the situation.

ALL Semites are fwk*d in the head, in my opinion anyway, and that's the opinion of many others including Jews and Muslims.

When will it all end?

Maybe when all parties concerned stop trying to claim absolute and religious rights to murder others in god(s)' name or for the sake of honour or whatever other excuse they can dream up.

**Neverna** · 26-08-2014, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by zygote1

The British continued to occupy Israel long after their mandate had technically ended.

Not true. British forces left Mandate Palestine on 14 May 1948. The new state of Israel was declared the day after - on 15 May 1948.

I suspect the British did not trust Jews at that time due to the Jewish terrorism they had experienced. For example, the bombing of the King David hotel in 1946 by the Irgun, a Jewish terrorist group. 91 people were killed.

However, the argument that you cannot trust any Jew because of the actions of a few is ridiculous, just as it is ridiculous to not trust Muslims due to the actions of a few.

**Neverna** · 26-08-2014, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by ENT

Pan-Arabism, or the doctrine of Muslim Caliphate, declares that all land that used to belong to Muslims must be returned to them. Thus, Spain, for example, must eventually be re-conquered.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...9091219AAmi8nj

Complete nonsense. The two are not the same. Do some research on Pan-Arabism before posting such silliness.

And using answers.yahoo.com to make a point is, err, silly. You can do better than that, ENT.

**ENT** · 28-08-2014, 12:16 PM

As a well known Muslim apologist you'd deny any intent by Islam to try to take over the world.

Too bad others can see through all that "peaceful Islam" cr*p and come to their own conclusions about the violence the ragheads perpetrate, promote and and participate in.

And which channel do you listen to Neverna? Yahoo is no more silly than your stupid Koran.

**Neverna** · 28-08-2014, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by ENT

Pan-Arabism, or the doctrine of Muslim Caliphate, declares that all land that used to belong to Muslims must be returned to them. Thus, Spain, for example, must eventually be re-conquered.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...9091219AAmi8nj

Complete nonsense. The two are not the same. Do some research on Pan-Arabism before posting such silliness.

And using answers.yahoo.com to make a point is, err, silly. You can do better than that, ENT.

Originally Posted by ENT

As a well known Muslim apologist you'd deny any intent by Islam to try to take over the world.

Too bad others can see through all that "peaceful Islam" cr*p and come to their own conclusions about the violence the ragheads perpetrate, promote and and participate in.

And which channel do you listen to Neverna? Yahoo is no more silly than your stupid Koran.

You are either ignorant or confused, ENT. You don't know the difference between two different words - 'Arab' and 'Islam' or 'Arab' and 'Muslim'. They are not the same. Pan-Arabism does not equal Pan-Islamism. Your bigotry has blinded you to further knowledge of the world we live in.

Ask Thai Muslims if they are Arab. Ask Chinese Muslims if they are Arabs. Ask Pakistani Muslims if they are Arabs. Ask 'African-American' Muslims if they are Arab. It's a simple concept. I'm sure even you can master it with a bit of thought.

**ENT** · 29-08-2014, 07:06 AM

So what?

The problem is Muslim expansionism, call it whatever you like.

It's still all based on a sick paedophile's dreams.

There's nothing godly about it.

**thaimeme** · 29-08-2014, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by ENT

So what?

The problem is Muslim expansionism, call it whatever you like.

It's still all based on a sick paedophile's dreams.

There's nothing godly about it.

The real problem is, and always has been, Western expansionism.
Nothing short of a plague on the earth.

**ENT** · 29-08-2014, 07:26 AM

Total rubbish.

People go on about western expansionism as if it were the only form that ever existed.

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

What about Islamic expansionism from the 7th century onwards which brought on the dark ages in Europe!

The Mogul expansion into India was only ended by British empirical interests there from the 17th century onwards until last century.

Western expansionism lasted for a mere 300 years!

Islamic expansionism lasted for 1000 years!!!!

**thaimeme** · 29-08-2014, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by ENT

Total rubbish.

People go on about western expansionism as if it were the only form that ever existed.

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

What about Islamic expansionism from the 7th century onwards which brought on the dark ages in Europe!

The Mogul expansion into India was only ended by British empirical interests there from the 17th century onwards until last century.

Western expansionism lasted for a mere 300 years!

Islamic expansionism lasted for 1000 years!!!!

Nonsense.
Typical Eurocentric apologist reasoning.

**sabang** · 29-08-2014, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by ENT

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

Well I looked, and couldn't find any. I'm not aware the borders of China have increased at all in that period, not even to take back the 'renegade province' of Taiwan. A bit of argy bargy in the sth china sea is about it.

**Humbert** · 29-08-2014, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by ENT

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

Well I looked, and couldn't find any. I'm not aware the borders of China have increased at all in that period, not even to take back the 'renegade province' of Taiwan. A bit of argy bargy in the sth china sea is about it.

China claims 80% of the South China Sea as their territory. That's not expansionism?

**ENT** · 29-08-2014, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Originally Posted by ENT

Total rubbish.

People go on about western expansionism as if it were the only form that ever existed.

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

What about Islamic expansionism from the 7th century onwards which brought on the dark ages in Europe!

The Mogul expansion into India was only ended by British empirical interests there from the 17th century onwards until last century.

Western expansionism lasted for a mere 300 years!

Islamic expansionism lasted for 1000 years!!!!

Nonsense.
Typical Eurocentric apologist reasoning.

Read yer history dumbo.

**zygote1** · 29-08-2014, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Neverna

You are either ignorant or confused, ENT. You don't know the difference between two different words - 'Arab' and 'Islam' or 'Arab' and 'Muslim'. They are not the same. Pan-Arabism does not equal Pan-Islamism. Your bigotry has blinded you to further knowledge of the world we live in.

Ask Thai Muslims if they are Arab. Ask Chinese Muslims if they are Arabs. Ask Pakistani Muslims if they are Arabs. Ask 'African-American' Muslims if they are Arab. It's a simple concept. I'm sure even you can master it with a bit of thought.

That's caused me quite a chuckle. Many of Israel's staunchest Zionists are arabs. 1,000,000 Refugees thrown out of their birth nations of Iraq, Tunisia, Egypt etc., having all their life possessions confiscated. They were brutalized for a long time and once they finally arrived in Israel they remembered what their bretheren had done to them. I anticipate that many of the arabs currently being brutalized by ISIS will remember what has happened and when the opportunity arises, anyone associated with ISIS will be killed off. Arab vs. Arab feuds go on for ages and are always violent and bloody.

**Neverna** · 29-08-2014, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Originally Posted by ENT

Total rubbish.

People go on about western expansionism as if it were the only form that ever existed.

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

What about Islamic expansionism from the 7th century onwards which brought on the dark ages in Europe!

The Mogul expansion into India was only ended by British empirical interests there from the 17th century onwards until last century.

Western expansionism lasted for a mere 300 years!

Islamic expansionism lasted for 1000 years!!!!

Nonsense.
Typical Eurocentric apologist reasoning.

Read yer history dumbo.

Why don't you do some reading yourself?

Originally Posted by ENT

So what?

The problem is Muslim expansionism, call it whatever you like.

It's still all based on a sick paedophile's dreams.

There's nothing godly about it.

Arabism had nothing to do with Islamism. Read your history, ENT. (Look what Nasser did with Sayid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood.)

As for expansionism, the borders of a 'pan-Arab' world are clearly the borders of the Arab world. No more than that.

Pan-Arabism was a form of Arab nationalism, a nationalism that was a reaction against western imperialism and western political interference. Read your history, ENT.

You also might want to read up on the conceptual formation of Arabism and the political movement of Arab nationalism. I'll leave you to it. Come back to me when you've done some reading.

**Neverna** · 29-08-2014, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by zygote1

Originally Posted by Neverna

You are either ignorant or confused, ENT. You don't know the difference between two different words - 'Arab' and 'Islam' or 'Arab' and 'Muslim'. They are not the same. Pan-Arabism does not equal Pan-Islamism. Your bigotry has blinded you to further knowledge of the world we live in.

Ask Thai Muslims if they are Arab. Ask Chinese Muslims if they are Arabs. Ask Pakistani Muslims if they are Arabs. Ask 'African-American' Muslims if they are Arab. It's a simple concept. I'm sure even you can master it with a bit of thought.

That's caused me quite a chuckle. Many of Israel's staunchest Zionists are arabs.

Thank you. Clearly not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslims. It's not a difficult concept to understand but ENT is struggling with the idea. Perhaps he will be convinced after reading your post.

**Cujo** · 29-08-2014, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by ENT

Look at continued Chinese expansionism since the 1950s!!

Well I looked, and couldn't find any. I'm not aware the borders of China have increased at all in that period, not even to take back the 'renegade province' of Taiwan. A bit of argy bargy in the sth china sea is about it.

You're kidding right.
let's start with Tibet shall we, then we'll tealk about Xinjiang (East Turjikistan)

**ENT** · 29-08-2014, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Neverna

Clearly not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslims. It's not a difficult concept to understand but ENT is struggling with the idea. Perhaps he will be convinced after reading your post.

Clearly not all Europeans are Xtians and not all Xtians are Europeans, but you seem to struggle with the idea that being anti Islamic is something to do with my being ignorant of the fact that there's a difference between being an Arab and being a Muslim.

Again, you're in lalaland.

I was referring to Islamic intentions to take over the world, not to pan-Arabism, a totally different movement.

Then again, what's your definition of Arab?

Originally it meant the people living in Arabia, chiefly Bedouin, but now may encompass a whole slather of peoples who's only binding factor as Arabs is that they speak Arabic, the language of the koran, or that these separate ethnic groups have now adopted "Arabic" customs and other cultural artifices.

Thread: Isis beheading video brings calls for rethink of UK domestic terrorism fight

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions