Thread: Faster Than a Speeding Locomotive (Or Porsche)

Here is the record list of the Nuerburgring. List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Camaro is about #30, some 10 Porsches went faster, and it's 50 seconds slower than the best time. Nothing to write home about, really. That car is too large and too heavy for European sports-car drivers, almost with the dimensions and weight of an Audi A8. On roads like this that don't exist in America you learn to appreciate the difference.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Here is the record list of the Nuerburgring. List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Camaro is about #30, some 10 Porsches went faster, and it's 50 seconds slower than the best time. Nothing to write home about, really. That car is too large and too heavy for European sports-car drivers, almost with the dimensions and weight of an Audi A8. On roads like this that don't exist in America you learn to appreciate the difference.

The Camaro is in the top-31- remove the limited production cars and the cars that cost less than 75K and it's #1.

Let's look at what it beat- the LFA, the 458, the Murcielago, the 911 Turbo, etc- yeah, there are more desirable cars, but for the money, it's insane how well it did.

It's also about performance for your money (at least it is for me- maybe I'm not as rich as you guys).

As time goes on, more and more American cars are going to crack that list- Europe is falling behind- the US and Japan are taking over the performance market for the wealthy (but not super-rich) buyers.

You just don't have the sack to admit that the only thing you dislike about this car is the fact that it's American

not at all, i love american cars from the fifties and sixties, i still love their swagger, confidence and exuberance, they exemplified all that was great about your country fifty years ago.



times have moved on now, unfortunately americans havent, they still inhabit a world where bigger shinier and louder is best. that world has been dead for a while now, it exists only in america and the gulf states.

and elitist beliefs mean you can't stand the fact that this much performance isn't available to you at even triple the cost,

caterhams, lotuses, and ariel. all small british manufacturers of superfast sports cars that sell for much less than the camaro. if you have big money then bentleys, aston martins, ferraris and porsches are available, and all much more usable on european roads than american cars.

the most fun you can have with a car is probably something like a mini cooper or an mx5.

small, fast and with excellent roadholding and economy.

you dont need a ferrari or a camaro to have fun. only small men need those things to boost their egos. and if that is your need then youd be better off with a european car than an inferior piece of american bravado thats all bark and little bite.

As time goes on, more and more American cars are going to crack that list- Europe is falling behind-

are you mad?

name one.

ferrari, alfa, porsche, lambo, bmw, mercedes benz, mclaren, lotus, aston martin, verses chevrolet, ford, dodge, cadillac, pontiac. dream on.

game changers versus followers.

Originally Posted by taxexile

americans dont have the engineering skills required to produce high end sports cars

You sir are a moron. An ignorant knuckle dragging island monkey. American engineers develop tech that is far more complex and sophisticated then is contained in a car. Think military and space technology. Puts the simple design of a car in the amateur leagues. Those Lucas engineers were the best weren't they.

That said as a car enthusiast I don't prefer the take of the American sports car. I am more in tune with the German impression and am partial to the 911.

I like the looks of the Camaro, the Challenger and the new 'Stang.
Vettes I haven't liked since the early 70's

Originally Posted by taxexile

they have small efficient engines

Yes they do. Japanese engines.

Originally Posted by Necron99

Vettes I haven't liked since the early 70's

Vettes are douche mobiles for people like socal.

If I could get one of those 'Douchemobiles' for double MSRP (or less) in LOS I'd buy one.

In Thailand, the douches mostly drive low-end BMWs and MBs (and Fortuners).

mickey mouse

Japanese engines.

honda make some of the finest auto engines on the planet.



homer simpson

American engineers develop tech that is far more complex and sophisticated then is contained in a car.

then why cant they sell their cars.

pres. nixon

the Camaro is the best value on the road (and beats cars costing triple its asking price), and if you can't give it some props for that, you know nothing about cars.

its a piece of poorly assembled, cynically marketed shoddy american crap that appeals only to inbred boy racers whose idea of fun is yelling orrrlriiiiight, slapping high fives and doing endless circuits of an oval racetrack.

donald duck

Those Lucas engineers were the best weren't they

old news. nearly all the technology employed in f1 cars today is developed and produced in england.

^

You left out 'Beating Porsches, Lamborghinis, and Ferraris on the Nurburgring.'

Now get in your Smart Car and beat it.

American Cars Really Are Bad



With the call for a bail-out of the "Big Three" American auto makers, I am hearing all sorts of protests from people associated with those companies. "It's not fair," they complain. "We make great cars. The problem is . . ." and then they go on to blame everyone but themselves.

A big target of right wingers is the United Auto Workers. It's the fault of those high-paid auto workers (not the CEOs who fly private jets, but the guys on the line making 30 bucks an hour), not because they make bad cars.

I've got news for them all: They make bad cars.

Denial is a powerful thing, and the American auto industry is in denial.

The Big Three design and manufacture poor quality automobiles, and then they don't stand behind them. They have operated under the mistaken assumption that if they build a model, America will buy them in droves.

But for almost 40 years, they have been losing market share since a Japanese company started shipping a funny little, inexpensive, well-made, fuel efficient car to our shores.

They have looked to the quarterly statements rather than the long-term health of the industry.

They pandered to greed and opulance rather than sensibility and dependability. And they engaged in planned obsolescence at a time when foreign manufacturers were building them to last.

It's not even just the gas guzzler thing, which so many folks point to as an obvious mistake.

They just make really bad vehicles.

And they need to learn that.

Americans buy foreign cars because they get better mileage and because they are a better quality product. Period. It's not the UAW or any of those other things. If they made quality, fuel efficient cars, they would own the world.

In the last 20 years, I have owned the following cars:

1988 Corvette -- fun classic American sports car with a terrible ride that needed constant repairs after 50,000 miles.

1986 Vovlo wagon -- boring, but went 200,000 miles without a penny in repair costs.

1994 Camero -- went more miles on the back of a tow truck than being driven. Rattled like crazy and had constant electrical problems.

1996 Corvette -- a lemon. Never worked right. The dealer couldn't fix it, and the company wouldn't stand behind it. I should have sued.

2000 Jeep Cherokee -- the only decent American car I ever owned. 60,000 miles without a problem.

2000 Porsche Boxster -- tight and reliable. After the warranty expired the engine siezed from sitting in the garage for over a year, and Porsche replaced the entire power train free of charge. They stood behind it at substantial expense, even though they didn't have to. And it never had another problem. Not one. Ever.

2003 GMC Envoy -- I don't think I ever drove that thing a mile without some sort of problem. And the problems it had kept recurring and required repeated repairs. It just wouldn't stay fixed. I still have it, but can't afford to drive it because of the gas mileage and because it needs more in repairs than it is worth.

2008 Honda Accord -- So far, it is a perfect, tight, reliable car.

Let's recap: American cars: all crap. Foreign cars: all sweet. And I'll bet millions of other Americans have similar stories to tell.

Do the U.S. auto makers make some cars that go forever? Sure. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. But overall, they make cars of lower quality than the competing foreign cars. Not only that, but they get worse mileage than their competitors and they require more repairs.

And that, my friends, is the real problem with the American car industry. Personally, I think any bailout should require a sea change in thinking at every level.

American Cars Really Are Bad - Dana Dangerous - Open Salon

Caterham Seven 160 (2013) first official pictures

By Ollie Kew
First Official Pictures
22 October 2013 11:30

In an era when we’re all crying out for lighter, less complicated, more fuel efficient cars (at a moderately affordable price) here’s the model enthusiasts have surely been waiting for: the new Caterham Seven 160.

Despite developing just 80bhp from its turbocharged 660cc Suzuki engine, the Seven 160 will scamper to 60mph in just 6.5sec. Read on for the full spec of this hero of downsizing.

Tell me more about the Caterham Seven 160’s engine

It’s only a three-cylinder mill, boosted by a turbocharger to take output from the original Suzuki-spec 64bhp to 80bhp at 7000rpm, with 79lb ft of torque on stream from 3400rpm. Not big numbers, but neither’s the critical mass. Caterham quotes a 490kg kerbweight with no liquids on board the car, but even with a grinning driver and vital fluids included, the 160 should still be a real giggle to drive. The top speed is a claimed 100mph – plenty in a Caterham. And then there’s the potential for more than 50mpg!

Are the dynamics back-to-basics too?

Yes, and that’s fine by us. Saving weight (and money) underneath the 160 is a live rear-axle set-up, which has been chosen for its resemblance to the damping fitted to the original Lotus Sevens of the 1950s. It’s even been tuned to replicate the old car’s benign but playful nature.

We’re used to seeing fat, sticky track day rubber hanging off the side of hardcore Caterhams like the 620R, but the 160 instead uses skinny 155-section rubber on 14in steel wheels. The transmission is a five-speed manual, with no option of a racing sequential ’box. Praise be: Caterham is adamant that the 160 has been designed for ‘handling finesse rather than outright performance.’


Can I build a Caterham 160 myself?

Yes – if you live in the UK. It’s factory-built only if you want a left-hand drive European mainland model, which is badged ‘165’ on account of meeting EU5 emissions legislation. The British 160 and European 165 will boast identical performance though, a Caterham spokesman confirmed to CAR.

The 160 is estimated to take around 80 man-hours to construct yourself – save a few minutes by picking the aero screen option (an option on UK cars) and you won’t have to worry about nailing on the windscreen…

How much does the Caterham Seven 160 cost?

If you’re building one yourself, the kit will set you back a very reasonable £14,995. Opt for the professionals to do the dirty work for you and it’s more expensive: £17,995 is the fully-built price tag, and you can order your very own from today. So, for a fiver under £18k, it’s one of these or a Ford Fiesta ST…

>> Is Caterham onto a winner with its £15k, back-to-basics Seven 160? Add your thoughts in the comments below


Caterham Seven 160 (2013) first official pictures | Automotive & Motoring News | Car Magazine Online


who in their right minds would buy a junkyard rottweiler bitch like the camaro, when there are real thoroughbred greyhounds like the caterham available?

oh yes, the americans.

^ ^^

Do you ever vet your own info? It seems like you don't. The guy hasn't owned an American car in over 10 model years, and that's relevant to what's available today?

In any case, yet pathetic Straw Man attempt from taxexile to deflect from the fact he has no real point or valid argument- you continue to underwhelm me.

How does any of what you posted make the new Z/28 anything less than a world-class car in the performance department?

'Build your own piece-of-crap kit car'- are you kidding me? How is that in any way pertinent to anything on this thread?

I had a Caterham kit-car when I was a kid:

Originally Posted by FailSafe

I had a Caterham kit-car when I was a kid:

What rock have you crawled out from under gay boy

London tube trains travel at 48mph

The Tuk-Tuk is the "highest-tech" machine designed on the planet...

And the drivers are among the best in the world...with the highest standards of training...

It has never been beaten on the "Silk-Road Run," one of the world's most gruelling courses...

Even the Dawg's Vauxhall was almost a full lap behind...

American cars are everywhere on this planet.

correction, american financed cars are everywhere on this planet.

these days the design for gm smaller cars is mostly done in europe and it is america that takes the platforms and americanizes them for sale in the us.

big american metal is virtually unsaleable in europe.

chevrolet, from being an american icon not so long ago, now turns out poor quality and underperforming cars that just cant compete with their european rivals. their sports cars are years behind, with cheaply fitted cabins and sledgehammer mechanics. they may be fast, but as i said, a tuk tuk would be fast with a 7 litre engine powering it.

chrysler now sells rebadged italian lancias, whatever happened to that once great name and its sister cars, the desoto, the dodge, and the plymouth?

american cars are designed for long straight freeways where tight bends, adverse camber, and acres of space are the norm. delicacy of handling is not important.

european cars are, or were until recently, designed for 2 lane roads, tight bends and the urban scrum where maneuverability and quick acceleration is the name of the game. these days cars are designed for china and have become boring as a result.

Originally Posted by BaitongBoy

The Tuk-Tuk is the "highest-tech" machine designed on the planet...

And the drivers are among the best in the world...with the highest standards of training...

...

Yeah right, according to Thais I suppose?

Originally Posted by taxexile

big american metal is virtually unsaleable in europe.

you really are behind the times...
Ford has only recently killed the last body-on-frame car in their line-up. It will be missed. there is something to be said for the toughness of a body-on-frame two ton beater, with cop tires, etc.

Originally Posted by taxexile

whatever happened to that once great name and its sister cars, the desoto, the dodge, and the plymouth?

Same as the Bentley, Rolls, Austin. MG and so on. I really do miss those old cars. My first complete tear-down & re-build was a late 1962 sprite with a 948 cc motor & knee action shocks. I was carrying 18 units in College, had a 19:00 - 3:00 shift at the newspaper and a competing paper's motor route. worked on the car in-between. got it running so good I would sometimes make myself work on it because it had gone a month without breaking. I knew; something had to be due.

Chrysler now a part of the Fiat family of cars. still US tech, and according to the Ko Good Now Auto Index one of manufacturers with (some of) the highest percentage of USA components, design and labor in it's trucks and larger cars. You might wanna look at that index; seems alot more of the vehicles you think are foreign designed might just have US genes.

I'm not going to stand here and try to tell the world that the interior fit & finish of a $64,000 Cadillac CTS-V is up to the nearly $100,000 BMW M5 standards. But the performance? We'll see about longevity. Almost anything on the road is good for 300k plus miles.

The lines are so blurred these days Big brutish motors in just about everything but the aforesaid Lotuses not a super car on the road that's not running a v-8 or v10 Ferrari is the only company left running flat plane Vees. American engines still out perform in low and mid0-range torque, you know; that stuff that most of us will actually get a chance to use? They're bigger, they actually run pretty fuckin efficiently.

The 427 corvette is still a push-rod motor. Push rod motors fit in tighter holes. Pushrod motors can actually run more efficiently, Big motors turn slow producing huge amounts of torque in low ranges consuming less fuel. The whol reason the 427 is the 427 is so the damned thing can shut down half it's cylinders and still loaf along at 90 mph on the other four.

The z/28 is a street legal track car. Aimed directly at the GTRs, LFAs, M4 and GT3s It's got a hell of a lot less computer enhanced handling interference (NO ONE could pilot a GT3 around the ring without going ass first with out its computer). You can protest all you want. American cars are here and they are competitive with the best in performance at much lower price points. Interior luxury? Not quite up to Ferrari, Porsche (many of which could never, EVER be daily drivers) or those other high dollar rides, but at anywhere from 50 - 10% cost? I'll ride American.