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  1. #2901
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The operation some 200 million miles from Earth on the other side of the sun
    If the probe was "the other side of the sun" how did NASA communicate with it? Was a relay satellite used?

    How long of a delay between the NASA signal being transmitted, the probe receiving it and performing the task?

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Maybe it's only me but this sounds like an absolute schoolboy error from the design team.
    Yes and no. Designs of these probes are very much restricted by mass budgets. They also have very limited knowledge what these asteroids really are. The designers work with estimates and assumptions a lot. So far the assumptions have always proven quite wrong. What the probes find is unlike what they have been designed for. Which is not a bad thing. They go there to learn.

    They could make more robust designs that work well with a wide range of conditions but then they would have to use more mass for the same task and the capability would be much less.

    In this case it worked out quite well fortunately. The sampling device met much softer material than expected and it dived deeper into the surface. Which is a good thing. They got samples from deeper inside than they had hoped for. They lost some material, that's true. But they still have a lot. They had wanted a minimum of 80g but even after losing some material they now expect to have cached more than 1kg, maybe up to 2kg. The material is now encapsulated inside a return capsule that will land on Earth and no more material loss can happen. That's assuming the return capsule works as expected and lands successfully back on Earth.

    Something similar happened to the Mars Insight lander that attempted to drill into the surface. The design by the German DLR failed so far and I am no longer very hopeful that it will work in the end. Not even after they tried the method I suggested to the team leader a while ago at a presenttion. Seriously I suggested it but of course they had already thought of it and he replied to me they may try that as a last resort because it is risky.

    The DLR design team worked with NASA assumptions on the properties of the soil at the landing site and these assumptions were way off. The mechanism could not cope.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

  3. #2903
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Wow Voyager 2 is still talking to us!

    On October 29, 2020, NASA re-established contact with its Voyager 2 spacecraft, launched from Earth in 1977. The craft is now traveling more than 11.6 billion miles (18.8 billion km) from Earth. It is beyond the heliopause, or boundary region, where the sun’s influence ends and the interstellar medium begins. The 43-year-old space probe was left flying solo for 7 months while repairs were made to the radio antenna that commands it. The only radio antenna that can command the space probe – the Deep Space Station 43 (DSS43) antenna in Canberra, Australia – has been offline since March.

    Mission operators sent a series of test commands to Voyager 2 using the DSS43 antenna, which established a signal confirming the “call” was received. The spacecraft executed the commands without issue, according to a NASA statement.

    Voyager 2 has been traveling through space since its launch in 1977, and is now more than 11.6 billion miles ( 18.8 billion km) from Earth. Voyager 2 entered interstellar space two years ago, in November 2018, when the spacecraft exited the heliosphere – the protective bubble of particles and magnetic fields created by the sun that surrounds the planets and the Kuiper Belt (the collection of small, icy bodies beyond Neptune’s orbit).
    https://earthsky.org/space/nasa-rees...edium%20begins.

  4. #2904
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Wow Voyager 2 is still talking to us!
    Earth may soon stop talking to Voyager. The only people who know its computers and software and data transmission protocols are going away from old age.

  5. #2905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    The only people who know its computers and software and data transmission protocols are going away from old age.
    Kinda puts the fragility of humans in perspective. The RCK* put them together 43+ years ago whist in their (guessing) 30's. It will take the Voyagers around 300 years just to reach the Oort Cloud, then around 30,000 years to exit both it and the Solar System forever.




    * Right Clever Koonts

  6. #2906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Earth may soon stop talking to Voyager. The only people who know its computers and software and data transmission protocols are going away from old age.
    Don't worry, they'll be running those in VMs by now and it will all be documented.

    Imagine what they'd be able to do if they had been able to put today's technology in it back in 1977.

    Just imagine, there are 3.5 billion people on this earth that weren't on it when Voyager 2 was launched.

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    One cool thing about Voyager, is that in 5 or 10 thousand years time, when humans have mastered wormholes or the mastery of Space/Time, they can transport themselves to watch them fly by.

    Kinda like package holiday flights to the Pyramids now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Imagine what they'd be able to do if they had been able to put today's technology in it back in 1977.
    The alignment of the planets that allowed for them occurs every 176 years, so just need to wait until 2153 to see what humans can put together next time.

  9. #2909
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Don't worry, they'll be running those in VMs by now and it will all be documented.
    Those old people are still the ones who do the important work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    The alignment of the planets that allowed for them occurs every 176 years, so just need to wait until 2153 to see what humans can put together next time.
    That's with the rockets available then and for so many planets on the way for flybys. They would not do it this way again. Back then it was a date they had to meet and they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    That's with the rockets available then and for so many planets on the way for flybys. They would not do it this way again.
    I thought that 'it' was the aim of seeing and passing by all of the outer planets, and that was the main aim of the program - using the gravitational assist of the the aligned planets to make it possible by saving on fuel/weight, as the planets align that way once every 176 years or so.

    Is there a reason that in 130 years time that they wouldn't take advantage of this alignment?

    (I'm definitely happy to be educated on such things)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    I thought that 'it' was the aim of seeing and passing by all of the outer planets, and that was the main aim of the program - using the gravitational assist of the the aligned planets to make it possible by saving on fuel/weight, as the planets align that way once every 176 years or so.

    Is there a reason that in 130 years time that they wouldn't take advantage of this alignment?

    (I'm definitely happy to be educated on such things)

    It is the best they could do at the time. It was a monumental success, building something that long living. The power source, an RTG is still operating and producing power. Even more astonishing IMO, they still have liquid propellant and the system still works. It is needed to point Voyager towards the Earth for transmission.

    I hope we will have orbiting probes around all the outer planets (including Pluto ). Something like Voyager would be just nostalgic. Given how long that tour takes I don't think it would be worth repeating. Just my opinion.

  13. #2913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    I hope we will have orbiting probes around all the outer planets (including Pluto ).
    So around all the outer planets and one historically special plantetoid.

  14. #2914
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    Things have gotten a bit quiet about the giant Planet X in the last year or two.

    What is your take on it TO, do you think it exists?

  15. #2915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    I hope we will have orbiting probes around all the outer planets (including Pluto ). Something like Voyager would be just nostalgic. Given how long that tour takes I don't think it would be worth repeating. Just my opinion.
    But we all know Voyager is going to be discovered by an alien machine civilisation and sent back to find its creator.

    It was in a Star Trek movie FFS.

  16. #2916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    Things have gotten a bit quiet about the giant Planet X in the last year or two.

    What is your take on it TO, do you think it exists?

    I have no opinion until facts are on the table. Lots of things can be out in the Kuiper belt .

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    Just a fun fact. ULA is going to launch a satellite for the NRO, a spysat. First attempt failed second attempt is coming up. Fun fact is about the mission logo. NRO has the strangest logos.

    Space News thread-p1030048-jpg

    The writing at the bottom of the logo is in the writing of the elves in Lord of the Rings.

  18. #2918
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    We have the first regular manned flight of Dragon to the ISS coming. Test and certification flights are all done.

    Nov. 14 at 7:49 P.M.

    The Falcon 9 in white with flight proven boosters at the side.
    Link to full size picture
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emam9iIV...name=4096x4096

    Space News thread-lc-39a-hangar-jpg

    The Dragon and second stage.

    Link to full size picture
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emam9isU...name=4096x4096
    Space News thread-lc-39a-dragon-jpg

    They had some troubles with a few new Merlin engines. Problem was found and eliminated to the satisfaction of NASA. Falcon 9 is ready to fly. How long now until using a new, untested Falcon is regarded too risky for crew and NASA demands a flight proven booster?

  19. #2919
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    I presume from the top black part down it's pretty much just rocket fuel.

    And then 2? boosters attached to each side that are also full of rocket fuel.


    Christ you'd need some balls to sit on top of that as they light it up.

  20. #2920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    And then 2? boosters attached to each side that are also full of rocket fuel.


    Christ you'd need some balls to sit on top of that as they light it up.
    This is a Falcon 9 launch. The other boosters are just stored in that hangar.

    Falcon Heavy is not planned to launch people. If NASA wanted SpaceX could modify and upgrade Dragon and launch it to the Moon on Falcon Heavy. Might cost $300 million instead of $3 billion for an SLS/Orion launch. But then poor Boeing and Lockheed Martin would starve. Congress won't allow that.

    BTW some people follow those boosters closely enough that they can identify a booster by its soot pattern. I don't go that far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    The other boosters are just stored in that hangar.
    That's good, we wouldn't want them getting 2nd thoughts.

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    Head of NASA has announced he is stepping down as soon as Biden gets in. I didn’t realise NASA was a political post

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    Seems these days everything, whether intended or not, is a political post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    Head of NASA has announced he is stepping down as soon as Biden gets in. I didn’t realise NASA was a political post

    The head of NASA is a political post, always was. Though on a few occasions a new president kept the NASA administrator in place.

    Jim Bridenstine was feared to be one of the worst Trump appointees when announced. Turned out to everybodys surprise as possibly the only good one. Democrat space fans lobbied to keep him. Some speculation on why he chose to retire. He was a climate change denier when appointed but turned on the topic as soon as he became NASA administrator. He gave out contracts as firm fixed price, opposed to SLS/Orion cost+ contracts that lets Boeing charge billions and never deliver. He kicked Boeing ass by throwing them out of competitions for being too expensive and techncally inferior to other offers. In two major contracts Boeing was even excluded from the final selection process because their offers were so obviously inferior that they were not even worth a closer look.

    There is some fear among space fans that space, particularly manned space exploration may be the one area where the Biden administration may be detrimental.

  25. #2925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    There is some fear among space fans that space, particularly manned space exploration may be the one area where the Biden administration may be detrimental.
    Maybe the fears were premature.

    The NASA transition team for President-elect Joe Biden's administration, led by Smithsonian @airandspace director Ellen Stofan:
    Ellen Stofan, like any possible Democrat candidate has emphasis on Earth science. But she is in favor of manned space exploration as well.

    WHY THE MOON? WHY MARS? FOR EARTH.


    BY ELLEN STOFAN
    https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quar...ars-for-earth/

    I don't expect too much in that regard from NASA. As long as they don't get in the way and provide data from their archives, its good IMO. SpaceX will lead the way. NASA can then buy missions.

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