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  1. #2351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    that one guy said he kept dreaming about being able to simply sit at a table
    Pretty sure more dream about being weightless outside the ISS, on a very very thin rope, with nothing between you and earth.

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    Space Suits are not yet good for space tourists. They need a lot of training. A large enough volume to float freely is good. Something to look outside like the ISS cupola or the planned window of Starship would be an attraction. Astronauts spend free time there if they can.

    The body needs 3 days to adjust to microgravity. So a good minimum time in space should be 6-8 days. Fortunately flying a loop around the moon as planned for Yuzaku Maezawa is in that time frame. When they arrive at the moon they are well adjusted.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

  3. #2353
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    ^So the must have selfie is;

    The tourist doing a space walk with the Earth rising over the Moon's horizon behind and Stanley's black monolith, with stars in it, to one side.

    As an aside are you a chemical engineer? Your rocket fuel book took some heavy ploughing through prior to seed setting.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  4. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    As an aside are you a chemical engineer? Your rocket fuel book took some heavy ploughing through prior to seed setting.
    But I bet you did enjoy it.

    I am just a telecom engineer. Used to know comm protocols by every bit in them.

  5. #2355
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    The human interaction, history and the writers style were great. Just I got lost with the chemical equations.

    Readable, Enjoyable and Informative, as usual from you.

    That mind glaze affect has been there since I've been 13 years old though. My chemistry teacher was a very distracting young blonde lady. I had to sit on the front benches to see her clearly, as my eyesight began to deteriorate.

  6. #2356
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    My chemistry teacher was a very distracting young blonde lady. I had to sit on the front benches to see her clearly
    Funny you say that. My chemistry teacher was male and with greying hair. I being male too was not affected but he had that effect on girls. Some went to his home ringing there much to the annoyance of his wife.

  7. #2357
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    NASA have a 24/7 webcam filming them working on the Mars 2020 Rover.

    https://newatlas.com/nasa-webcam-mars-2020-rover/60041/


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    Major surgery...

  9. #2359
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    ^^

    Are those clean rooms as sterile as a hospital surgery room?

  10. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Are those clean rooms as sterile as a hospital surgery room?
    Probably a lot cleaner. They try to avoid bringing any biologic contaminaton.

    They failed to some extent on Curiosity. Which led to them avoiding one of the most interesting scientific targets. They were near a RSL,recurrent slope lineae. They were suspected to be water and may have life, they did not want to contaminate.

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    Ive read of bacteria growing inside the "international" Space Station but outside in space? Or do the bacteria remain dormant on the outsides of spaceships/satellites and possibly start growing again if introduced into another planet's ecosystem?

    I say "international" Space Station as one of it's co-builders and administrators, NASA, have advertised tourist trips to it. Presumably the second emergency escape module, provided by the Russian section, is no longer required, due to better NASA emergency escape facilities being provided.
    Last edited by OhOh; 16-06-2019 at 01:47 PM.

  12. #2362
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Ive read of bacteria growing inside the "international" Space Station but outside in space? Or do the bacteria remain dormant on the outsides of spaceships/satellites and possibly start growing again if introduced into another planet's ecosystem?
    I say planetary protection protocols are mostly paranoia, both directions. But NASA makes an art out of this kind of paranoia. If I am not too lazy I can write about how planetary protection makes a sample return mission for probes from Mars vastly more complex and expensive. Interested?



    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    I say "international" Space Station as one of it's co-builders and administrators, NASA, have advertised tourist trips to it. Presumably the second emergency escape module, provided by the Russian section, is no longer required, due to better NASA emergency escape facilities being provided.
    Escape capabilities always needs to cover all people on the ISS. A capsule bringing people up to the ISS stays there until they return to Earth. Though not always the same people in the same capsule down than they came up in. For one staying longer another needs to stay shorter.

    The new US capsules can have more seats than used but they don't install spare seats. They use the capacity for cargo.

  13. #2363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Interested?
    Always. I blame Kubrick's movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Escape capabilities always needs to cover all people on the ISS
    Presumably then NASA will always have the ability to evacuate all, plus a backup, themselves.

  14. #2364
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Presumably then NASA will always have the ability to evacuate all, plus a backup, themselves.
    They will keep mixing crews. Russian cosmonauts on US vehicles and NASA astronauts on Soyuz. Just no longer paid, they exchange seat for seat. The reason is they want to ensure that there is always one NASA astronaut and a russian cosmonaut on station even worst case.

    With different vehicles there is an added complication. The astronauts wear board suits, simpler than the complex suits for spacewalk but able to keep astronauts alive in case of depressurization. These board suits are different for each vehicle. They are also custom made for the wearer. So going up on one vehicle and down on another requires two board suits.

  15. #2365
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    About sample return missions.

    Naturally scientists with their labs here on Earth would love to get some well selected pristine samples from Mars to analyze them. The Mars 2020 rover will select and store a number of samples for that purpose. But no plans are made to get those samples back. Plenty of concepts but nothing actually in the works.

    A simple and not too expensive (by NASA interplanetary standards) mission would look like this: Land a return rocket on Mars. Quite doable as one can be designed weighing only one ton at the surface of Mars. Have the Mars rover hand over samples to that rocket. The rocket launches from Mars, a sample capsule sent back directly to Earth, reenters and is retrieved for analysis. But there is the planetary protection crowd. They fear backward contamination. The capsule may fail but some microbes survive. That sample could contain microbes intent on wiping out humanity so it can not be allowed. Did I mention paranoia?

    So another means of retrieving samples is needed. Now it gets complex and very, very expensive. A more capable and complex return vehicle is needed. Too complex to land it on Mars. So have that Mars launch rocket but bring it up only to Mars orbit. Send another vehicle from Earth to Mars orbit. Rendezvous them and hand over the samples. The orbiter then returns to cislunar space, not landing on Earth because of those imagined risks. A probably manned mission goes up, retrieves the sample, then what? A manned lander is still risky. So they may bring the sample to the ISS, risking only to kill the ISS crew, not all of humanity. Analyze the samples with ISS resources. Not nearly as good as on Earth but a lot better than what a Mars rover can do. The cost is now probably higher than what SpaceX is planning for building a manned Mars base. This one possible scenario, other similar ones are considered as well.

    BTW a manned Mars base would eliminate that risk. If there are killer microbes they would kill the base crew before they get back to Earth. An acceptable risk as it does not endanger our species. Though I have heard the argument what about these microbes don't affect humans but kills all the bees on Earth, destroying our agriculture? This of course adds another layer of paranoia. Unlikely in the extreme already that Mars microbes could be dangerous to Earth life at all. But Mars microbes so selective that they spare humans but destroy our ecosphere?

    Sample return is about backward protection, protecting Earth from Mars microbes. A different scenario is forward protection. Protecting Mars life from Earth microbes. Of course this complicates missions and makes them much more expensive. Plus the early landers were not well sterilized. If there could be any damage it would already be done.
    Last edited by Takeovers; 17-06-2019 at 12:39 PM.

  16. #2366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Analyze the samples with ISS resources. Not nearly as good as on Earth but a lot better than what a Mars rover can do.
    That option although more expensive does allow a transition from Martian conditions to Earth conditions over time. Allowing any dangerous mutations to be secured. Are there not also techniques than can only be performed in low gravity space?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Plus the early landers were not well sterilized. If there could be any damage it would already be done.
    True and any Earth organisms that have mutated would presumably be difficult to recognise as such without study prior to returning to Earth. Including the humans. Or are no Earthlings coming back, intact or not?

  17. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    True and any Earth organisms that have mutated would presumably be difficult to recognise as such without study prior to returning to Earth. Including the humans. Or are no Earthlings coming back, intact or not?
    With todays methods they can be traced back to earth. Not with methods available when planetary protocols were first conceived and agreed. They need to be changed to include todays standard of science but nobody is willing to touch them.
    Humans will come back. If they are infected by foreign microbes it would be detected well before their return, in which case they indeed would not come back except possibly after thorough examination in space.

  18. #2368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    If they are infected by foreign microbes it would be detected
    Hmmmm. It depends how advanced they are and how they hide themselves.

  19. #2369
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Hmmmm. It depends how advanced they are and how they hide themselves.

    If they don't show up within the more than 6 month period before crew comes back to Earth they can't be very dangerous. Quarantine times are in the range of weeks as a rule.

  20. #2370
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    Not in the movies I've seen. Dormant until dinner time.

  21. #2371
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    The giant science experiment hunting for the 'ghost particle', neutrinos

    Step inside Super Kamiokande.
    The tank deep underneath a Japanese mountain is helping to capture clues to the origins of life.



    Six and 1/2 mins duration

  22. #2372
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    The SpaceX STP-2 mission with Falcon Heavy.

    This is the third mission of the Falcon Heavy launch vehicle. A very important one because it is for the Airforce, a mission for certifying the launch vehicle for national security launches. If SpaceX can get that certification they have the highest standard of safety and reliability besides manrating for NASA crew missions.

    Very interesting (to me) that they fly this mission with reused boosters. Both side boosters have flown before. This is a step in the direction of the Airforce giving their highest security rating to reused boosters.

    Falcon Heavy in the hangar, prepared for static fire, a test ahead of launch which is planned on June 24. Actually I am not sure this picture shows the STP-2 FH. The side boosters look clean.

    Space News thread-falcon-heavy-flight-2-b1052-b1053

    This mission is very complex. For certification the Airforce calls for placing many sats in 3 different orbits, then the upper stage deorbiting itself which requires the stage to fire at least 4 times.

    Multiple satellites packed into the fairing.
    Space News thread-d9x_7towkaulfxw-jpg


    There are several payloads by the Airforce, several from NASA and also at least one very interesting private cube sat from the non profit Planetary Society. The lightsail 2 satellite which will gain speed from the pressure of sunlight.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Space News thread-falcon-heavy-flight-2-b1052-b1053   Space News thread-d9x_7towkaulfxw-jpg  
    Last edited by Takeovers; 20-06-2019 at 09:29 PM.

  23. #2373
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    How does the sail turn itself? Will it have lights or adverts on it?

  24. #2374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    JHC


    But can it pull a wheelie?



    You can almost see the manic grin of a madman that will pilot such a thing, sitting right at the top as he's about to flick the switches.



    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    This mission is very complex
    Quite believable.

  25. #2375
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    How does the sail turn itself? Will it have lights or adverts on it?
    I think near Earth it will align itself using the Earth magnetic field. It works surprisingly well for small sats. Farther out I don't know. The scope of this sat is not vey big. They want to prove light sails work at all.

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