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Indeed, even the thin band of Earth's atmosphere that we can inhabit is a couple of thousand meters from top to bottom. Our bodies can't even live on all the land there is on Earth without the atmospheric affects killing us. Of course with attempting to be an interplanetary species it's the gravity situation that will make it impossible for humans to live and breed normally and independently of Earth. Not to mention radiation etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latindancer
It needs verification for sure. Before birth problems are not very likely. The fetus is immersed in water which mostly negates gravity except for orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
Post birth is another matter. As I said, first try it with mice then with something bigger like rabbits or cats. Both have a short enough life cycle to see if offspring born on Mars could themselves have healthy offspring. I have seen arguments form a MD, though not space specialized that the biggest potential problem he sees for humans is with brain and skull development. The large post birth expansion is unique to humans, not even present in primates. So there is no way to find out except human women having babies under Mars gravity, meaning on Mars. No way to confine a woman to a rotating space station long enough to try near earth.
I am in a minority believing that terraforming is not the way to go. We need to learn how to live in a hostile environment if we want to expand beyond Mars. We need to master closed loop life support. The easiest way to learn that is living on Mars without terraforming. Besides there are major obstacles to achieving it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
Yet we are very adaptive to different environments. Technically we can provide everything except gravity. Rotating habitats would be difficult on a planetary body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latindancer
Radiation risks are way overrated. Habitats can be shielded. Work on the surface has acceptable doses. Working 8 hour shifts unshielded as a full time job cause a radiation exposure in the range of work place limits for radiation workers on earth.
See the Sierra Nevada Dream Chaser spacecraft. I am not convinced the spaceplane concept is the way to go. But I do appreciate the dedication by the owners of Sierra Nevada to make it happen. The owners are a husband and wife team, immigrants from the Middle East. They started working at the company, both being aerospace engineers. They now own the company and made it what it is today. They are very dedicated to get a space plane flying even if they have to invest much of their own money into it.
They tried to be one of the contractors for Commercial Crew but were not selected. Boeing and SpaceX won that.
They did win a share of the CRS 2 contract for supplying the ISS with cargo and bring down science experiments for evaluation on earth. It is expensive for them because CRS 2 is for transport only, no development payments like were given for CRS-1. They need to finance the whole development themselves. They did get development payments for the early phase of Commercial Crew but not for the expensive last contract to full development.
A while back they had a first flight. Their flight test was successful. But they did not have the landing gear developed at the time and adapted landing gear from a fighter jet. That gear failed and they lost their development vehicle. Now they are getting a new vehicle ready and are doing the first roll out ahead of first flight. The first flight will be a drop from a helicopter and glide to a soft landing. I am sure they have looked at the landing gear very closely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeMndeNG7cw
There have been a lot of digitally altered images of the recent eclipse.
So, from NASA and the ISS ...
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/08/2013.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXGWCX3Duxs
From Alaska Airlineshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBoa81xEvNA
Grand Final for the Cassini space probe around Saturn is coming up. The propellant for steering Cassini comes to an end. They will drop it into Saturn with the last bits. They are doing maneuvers that were deemed too risky before to get new science. Like diving through gaps and below the rings.
A visual presentation of photos taken by Cassini over its life time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htOoWJmYVtQ
The total solar eclipse, viewed from Charleston, South Carolina
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/08/2156.jpg
The International Space Station, in silhouette, as it transits the sun during a partial solar eclipse
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/08/2157.jpg
This photo, made available by NASA, shows Hurricane Harvey over Texas on August 26, 2017, as seen from the International Space Station
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/08/2192.jpg
Want to see a flown and landed rocket stage in lots of detail? This is really big and you can see a lot of details. Picture of the launch vehicle of recent launch of FORMOSAT 5.
A small teaser first. Both pictures get really big if you click the yellow bar.Quote:
Thanks to Helodriver, a member in the NSF forum. He regularly posts incredible pictures, sometimes from Helicopter. He deserves to be credited as the source.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/08/2314.jpg
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
Think I just broke my phone opening that post. :)
It was worth it though, cheers.
Thanks to Helodriver, a member in the NSF forum. He regularly posts incredible pictures, sometimes from Helicopter. He deserves to be credited as the source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
A very detailed cut out picture of the Saturn ring.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/...=51158;preview
This is only a thumbnail. To see it in full click the link, scroll down until you read
then Click on the partial image for full view of annotated versionQuote:
Original Caption Released with Image:
https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA08389
Do you know how true this is Takeovers?
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
I have no idea how realistic this is. Seems highly speculative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
They did find signatures of potential life in impact glass on earth. They did find evidence of impact glass on Mars using the MRO Mars reconnaissance orbiter. Glass will conserve such traces over very long periods. So if a crater was caused by a major impact on Mars in a period when life was present, traces of it could be found in the samples.
Here on earth we have active plate tectonics so such traces will disapppear over geologic periods. On Mars plate tectonics if they have ever existed stopped a very long time ago. So such evidence might have survived.
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...urface-of-mars
The article is from June 8,2015
Very interesting, Cheers T.
In July this year a SES satellite in GEO orbit stopped working. SES contracted company ExoAnalytic to track the satellite. In the link you can see video footage of the satellite partly desintegrating. Amazing to see, this is at an altitude of 36,000km. I strongly recommend to have a look even if I can not link a YouTube video.
https://twitter.com/damiengarot/stat...46432723345408
I have not found it on YouTube yet.
An article on Ars Technica about the incident.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...tionary-orbit/
Sunday 11am ET Update: In response to a query from Ars, the AMC-9 satellite's operator, Luxembourg-based SES, issued the following statement on Sunday morning:
That satellite had a design lifespan of 15 years but was operated past that. I believe for 18 years. A common practice but it increases the risk of something like this happening instead of the satellite after end of service gets transfered to a graveyard orbit and passivated there so it would not disintegrate. Passivation involves venting of all volatile liquids and gases, like propellant and controlled discharge of the batteries. Not properly handled batteries are a frequent reason for creating space debris. Such events increase the risk of damage to other satellites in the very important GEO orbit.Quote:
In the early hours of 1st July, the SES Satellite Control reestablished contact to AMC-9. SES and the satellite manufacturer Thales are working around the clock to evaluate the status and define the next steps.
Tracking information received on 29 June had suggested that at least two separate objects were located in the vicinity of AMC-9. Their source has still to be determined. The new piece of information was included by Thales and SES in their investigations.
All relevant operators and agencies are being kept informed and will receive regular updates from SES. The current assessment is that there is no risk of a collision with other active satellites. AMC-9 and its status continue to being tracked by SES and agencies, including the Joint Space Operations Centre (JSpOC) and ExoAnalytic, a private firm and tracking service provider.
Since the incident on 17 June 2017, AMC-9 has been slowly moving westwards with its payload disabled and not causing interference. A majority of traffic has been transferred to other SES satellites and SES is working on a long-term plan to minimize disruption to customers.
Geostationary Orbit:
A geostationary orbit, geostationary Earth orbit or geosynchronous equatorial orbit (GEO) is a circular orbit 35,786 kilometres (22,236 mi) above the Earth's equator and following the direction of the Earth's rotation.
An object in such an orbit has an orbital period equal to the Earth's rotational period (one sidereal day) and thus appears motionless, at a fixed position in the sky, to ground observers.
Communications satellites and weather satellites are often placed in geostationary orbits, so that the satellite antennas (located on Earth) that communicate with them do not have to rotate to track them, but can be pointed permanently at the position in the sky where the satellites are located.
Using this characteristic, ocean color satellites with visible and near-infrared light sensors (e.g. the Geostationary Ocean Color Imager (GOCI)) can also be operated in geostationary orbit in order to monitor sensitive changes of ocean environments.
A geostationary orbit is a particular type of geosynchronous orbit, the distinction being that while an object in geosynchronous orbit returns to the same point in the sky at the same time each day, an object in geostationary orbit never leaves that position.
SpaceX are gearing up for launching the Falcon Heavy. A 3 core version of the Falcon 9. When launched it will be the biggest operational heavy lift rocket.
Both the US Saturn 5 and the russian Energiya rockets were bigger but so expensive that they were terminated because the space agencies could not afford to operate them. The US SLS rocket under development will also be bigger but absurdly expensive so NASA will be able to fly them very rarely.
FH will be much more affordable. Here the test fire of one side core that will launch on the first FH test flight. Curious to note that this will be the first FH flight but the core you see test fired has flown before. It is a modified F9 core that has already delivered a payload to orbit.
This is the SpaceX test facility in McGregor, Texas. On that test stand they can testfire cores for much longer times than on a launch pad but not launch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptJYxCz0WmU
A blooper reel of SpaceX rocket landing failures. Some never before released footage. Watch it if you like spectacular explosions. Or a 4 legged rocket dancing. :)
BTW that dancing rocket, also known as the leaning tower of Thaicom, because it launched a Thaicom satellite, was perfectly OK and will fly again as a side booster for the upcoming first flight of Falcon Heavy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ&feature=youtu.be
As Cassini heads towards destruction, a fantastic reminder of its work is in this link:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...imes&smtyp=cur
You can follow its demise here:
Watch live as NASA's Cassini spacecraft says goodbye from 900 million miles away - LA Times
This is a bit of bad news for space travelers!
Bacteria Shapeshifts in Space
Scientists, who sent a unique experiment up to the International Space Station, have learned that bacteria can be quite adaptable in order to survive.
A group of scientists, led by researchers at the University of Colorado, Boulder, found bacterial cells, when treated with a common antibiotic, in the near weightlessness of space, resorted to maneuvers such as shapeshifting to avoid being destroyed.
The researchers cultured some E. coli bacteria on the Space Station and then exposed it to an antibiotic that normally kills it on Earth.
They found that rather than being wiped out by the antibiotic, the number of microbes increased by 13 times and behaved in other ways that may have added even more protection from the antibiotics.
The researchers say their findings have implications for those in space and on Earth.
https://blogs.voanews.com/science-wo...p/?from=lister
Why bacteria 'shapeshift' in space
Bacterial cells treated with a common antibiotic in the near-weightlessness of the International Space Station (ISS) responded with some clever shapeshifting that likely helped them survive, findings with implications for both astronauts and people on Earth.
Researchers from CU Boulder’s BioServe Space Technologies designed an experiment to culture the common E. coli bacteria on ISS and treat it with several different concentrations of the antibiotic gentamicin sulfate, a drug that kills them on Earth. The response of the cultured bacteria included a 13-fold increase in cell numbers and a 73 percent reduction in cell volume size compared to an Earth control group, said BioServe Research Associate Luis Zea, lead study author.
“We knew bacteria behave differently in space and that it takes higher concentrations of antibiotics to kill them,” said Zea. “What’s new is that we conducted a systematic analysis of the changing physical appearance of the bacteria during the experiments.”
A paper on the subject was published in Frontiers in Microbiology. CU Boulder co-authors included BioServe Director Louis Stodieck, aerospace engineering sciences Professor David Klaus and former graduate student Frederico Estante.
Because there are no gravity-driven forces in space like buoyancy and sedimentation, the only way the ISS bacteria can ingest nutrients or drugs is through natural diffusion, said Zea. The large decrease of the bacteria cell surface in space also decreases the rate of molecule-cell interaction, which may have implications for more effectively treating astronauts with bacterial infections in space.
The new study also showed the bacterial cell envelope—essentially its cell wall and outer membrane—became thicker, likely protecting the bacteria even more from the antibiotic, said Zea. The E. coli bacteria grown in space also tended to form in clumps, perhaps a defensive maneuver of sorts that may involve a shell of outer cells protecting the inner cells from antibiotics, said Zea.
In addition, some of the E. coli cells also produced outer membrane vesicles—small capsules that form outside the cell walls and act as messengers for cells to communicate with each other, Zea said. When cells with such vesicles reach a critical mass they can sync up to initiate the infection process.
“Both the increase in cell envelope thickness and in the outer membrane vesicles may be indicative of drug resistance mechanisms being activated in the spaceflight samples,” said Zea. “And this experiment and others like it give us the opportunity to better understand how bacteria become resistant to antibiotics here on Earth.”
The BioServe experiment was launched to ISS in 2014 on a commercial Orbital Sciences Cygnus spacecraft. Astronauts manually initiated and ended the experiments on ISS using BioServe-built hardware—including high-tech incubators and test tubes—over the course of two days. The experiment was returned to Earth for analysis on a commercial SpaceX Dragon spacecraft several months later.
“The low gravity of space provides a unique test bed for developing new techniques, products and processes that can benefit not only astronauts, but also people on Earth,” said Stodieck, a research professor in the Ann and H.J. Smead Aerospace Engineering Sciences. “In space, for example, scientists can learn more about biochemical changes in various cells and organisms that the force of gravity on Earth may be masking.”
The clumping of E. coli bacterial cells may be related to biofilm formation—multicellular communities held together by a self-produced matrix. Examples of biofilms on Earth include the scum on vinyl shower curtains, dental plaque and even collections of bacteria that can adhere to silicon in medical devices like catheters. Biofilms also can form on various surfaces of space vehicles, said Zea, making them a potential health threat to space travelers.
Other study co-authors were from University of Copenhagen in Denmark, the German Aerospace Center in Cologne, Germany and Pontifical Catholic University of Rio Grande du Sol in Porto Alegre, Brazil.
Why bacteria 'shapeshift' in space | CU Boulder Today | University of Colorado Boulder
This image made available by NASA shows the moon Enceladus and the edge of Saturn as seen from the Cassini spacecraft on its descent towards the planet on September 13, 2017. The probe disintegrated in the skies above Saturn early Friday, September 15, 2017, after a journey of 20 years
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/...jpg?1505498706
The Soyuz MS-06 spacecraft, carrying the crew of Joe Acaba and Mark Vande Hei of the the U.S., and Alexander Misurkin of Russia, blasts off to the International Space Station from the launchpad at the Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/...jpg?1505501623
Wow...Can you imagine a trip like that?...Coming soon, to a theater near you, as they say...
Ring discovered around 'potato-shaped' dwarf planet Haumea
A ring system has been found around a dwarf planet for the first time — the distant, potato-shaped Haumea,
which lies beyond Neptune.
Key points:
- Haumea is a dwarf planet that orbits in the outer solar system, roughly 6.4 billion kilometres from the Sun
- Scientists have detected a dense, dark ring of debris around it
- The discovery suggests rings around celestial bodies may be more common than previously thought
Haumea, first discovered in 2004, is one of five dwarf planets: large objects like Pluto, mostly in the outer solar system,
which are not quite significant enough for planetary status.
It is known for its peculiar and rapid rotation, spinning end-over-end once every four hours.
But the discovery of Haumea's ring, reported today in the journal Nature, is another surprise for scientists.
"This is the first time a ring around a dwarf planet has been discovered, so it is a really very peculiar, unexpected and weird finding,"
said the paper's co-author, Dr Pablo Santos-Sanz from the Instituto de Astrofísica de Andalucía.
The ring appears to be dense and dark, blocking out about half of the light that passes through it to Earth.
It's 70 kilometres wide and lies about 1,000 kilometres away from Haumea's surface.
Here
Hmm...Kind of hard to get away from that "grounding" reference...Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD