Space News thread

[Takeovers]

This is presumably a competitor?

Yes and no, it's complicated.

Blue Origin was founded in 2000, two years earlier than SpaceX. Both companies want to revolutionize space travel by making it cheaper with reusable rockets. Both companies want to bring many people into space. But Elon Musk is quite clear in his goal, he wants to colonize Mars. Jeff Bezos talks in more general, not to say fuzzy terms of bringing millions of people to space. and live there.

The difference in approaching that goal is wildly different. Partly due to the different personalities of Bezos and Musk, partly due to different financial starting positions. Both are generally refered to as dot com billionaires but that is true only of Bezos, he made billions with Amazon, a very successful businessman loaded with cash. Elon Musk made just 160 million $ with PayPal, when investors forced a sale against Elon Musks will.

So Bezos had billions while Elon Musk had only 100 millions to found SpaceX and 60 millions to found Tesla. Miniscule amounts of money in those industries. Also Bezos only provides the general goal and money to Blue Origin. Musk is the driving force in his companies on a technical level too. Though of course both try to hire the best seasoned specialists and young talent. Bezos has spent 50 million $ a year since 2000, so a total of ~ 800 million $ and has made almost zero revenue besides some small payments by NASA for development of a crew capsule which then was not selected for the larger follow up contracts.

As a result of that difference Blue Origin concentrated on pure development on their own pace determined by cash flow from Bezos. SpaceX with no source of money besides business tried to acquire revenue by developing a marketable product as early and cheaply as possible. They succeeded by acquiring both business with NASA and private satellite industry.

SpaceX has the Falcon 9 rocket, very competetive in the launch market, is close to launching a very large Falcon Heavy. The cargo Dragon capsule that supplies the ISS. Are developing and probably doing the first unmanned test flight of the Crew Dragon this year that will bring Astronauts to the ISS next year. Blue Origin has the New Shepard rocket and capsule that can bring the capsule just up to the notional Carman line at 100km and then straight down. Basically a one trick pony orders of magnitude less capable than the Falcon/Dragon vehicles. The one thing they have in common is reusability.

Note that I don't want to diminish their achievement, they have done something worthwhile. They have developed basic capabilities that they now plan to expand in the direction where SpaceX now is and possibly going beyond that. They will announce details of a new orbital rocket this year. It will very likely be a test bed followed by a much larger vehicle that can actually do a lot, possibly more than the Falcon family of SpaceX. But SpaceX is building their next generation vehicle too. It is a space race of two very different companies.

The competition can only be a good thing. However my sympathies are with SpaceX because Bezos with Blue Origin did two things I despise. They took a patent on barge landing that SpaceX was able to overturn through the courts, a really ridiculous patent because the approach has been published in a lot of detail decades earlier by others and Blue Origin did not and until today does not have the hardware developed to try it. The second is lease of LC-39A at Cape Canaveral. Both applied and SpaceX won because they were the only ones to show what they are planning to do with it, launching payloads and Astronauts while Blue Origin only presented vague long term plans. Then Blue Origin sued against the NASA decision. Their court case was without any merit and sure to lose but they did it anyway with the sole purpose and succeding in delaying SpaceX and costing them a lot of money.

[Takeovers]

In short: Blue Origin is the hobby horse of a dot com billionaire. SpaceX is the brainchild of a man driven by a vision.

Bezos has spent 800 million $, an order of magnitude more money than Elon Musk and has made no revenue so far. Elon Musk has spent 100 million $ and built a company worth more than 13 billion $ with his share of the company exceeding 10 billion $ in value.

Blue Origin's New Shepard is at least an order of magnitude less capable than the SpaceX vehicles. But the technology they have developed is not that far behind. Some may argue their technology base is even more advanced.

[OhOh]

Some may argue their technology base is even more advanced.

Their video indicates that they can take off and land, The musk experience, so far indicates it can take off but cannot land!

I'm not sure if all of it lands.

[Takeovers]

Some may argue their technology base is even more advanced.

Their video indicates that they can take off and land, The musk experience, so far indicates it can take off but cannot land!

I'm not sure if all of it lands.

A Falcon 9 first stage did land. Though not on a barge successfully yet. They are still optimizing.

The landings by NewShepard are not what makes them possibly more advanced. SpaceX is doing this with operational hardware, capable of delivering payload to orbit. They have VERY little margin for landing or it would destroy their payload capacity. The NewShepard has huge margin to operate with and they use that for much easier landing. As I said, a one trick pony. There is no blame in this, it is just their development path, different than the development path of SpaceX.

Some argue though that Blue has more advanced engines. That's true. The Merlin engines by SpaceX are robust, very reusable and cheap. They are not advanced though. Blue has the BE-3 engine on NewShepard which is a staged combustion liquid hydrogen engine, quite fancy - and reusable too. However to enable landing they have castrated it to be able to deep throttle and hover, making landing easy but cutting deep into performance. As long as they have the huge amount of margin their not so demanding flight profile gives them, they can do that. That method won't work for cost efficient orbital vehicles though.

Both Blue and SpaceX are presently working on a new very advanced methane engine. The SpaceX Raptor uses the most advanced engine design ever, Full Flow Staged Combustion. Blue builds the BE-4 with similar thrust but Staged Combustion, slighty less complex but are said they are ahead of SpaceX in their development cycle. I am not so sure, who is ahead. SpaceX may or may not be that far in development, we don't know for sure but will find out within a year or two.

BTW, the name NewShepard is a reference to Alan Shepard, the first NASA astronaut who flew a suborbital trajectory similar to what NewShepard does.

[Sumbitch]

A Hubble pic.

Is this some kind of photographic anomaly, or what ???

No, it's real: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/518125132109619283/

[Takeovers]

No, it's real: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/518125132109619283/

I mentioned already, pinterest is not a reliable source, it is a social media site. I searched for the picture and did not find it elsewhere. Until I do with a reasonable explanation I stand by my opinion it is fake or photographic error, more likely fake.

[harrybarracuda]

It sure looks like time lapse to me.

[Latindancer]

Yes, I agree.....timelapse. Some kind of electronic imaging system has accidentally decided to time-lapse part of the shot. In space shots like that, you never see parallel lines, just outward bursts.

[Bettyboo]

At last, Superman is coming and we will be saved!

[Takeovers]

At last, Superman is coming and we will be saved!

Probably not Superman to the rescue. Super advanced AI is coming and it will either solve all our problems or kill us. In any case no need to do much now.

[Takeovers]

A video of chinese space development. It's the chinese version of YouTube and does not embed unfortunately. Worth looking though.

http://v.qq.com/page/l/0/i/l01741ul9ii.html

They are testing the next generation of in space docking adapters. Previous versions were male and female to dock. This generation is androgynous. Any two of these can mate. A major advantage as two spacecraft can both dock to a space station and with each other if needed.

Their spacecraft still cannot deny Soviet Soyus heritage however its functionality is way advanced. I am not sure but it looks like they use the international standard developed in a joint effort of NASA and russian Roskosmos. Which is a good thing, all nations using a similar standard instead of each developing incompatible national standards.

Seems the video is not available at the moment. As I don't read chinese I don't know the reason given. It was available when I called it up for the first time.

[Neo]

Interesting development.
The era of commercial space laser communications is about to begin | Ars Technica UK
Laser communication being utilised in space to speed up communications and sending hi res images back to Earth.

In the early hours of Saturday morning, a Russian Proton rocket will lift off from Baikonur in Kazakhstan, carrying the first node in what the European Space Agency (ESA) calls the "SpaceDataHighway."

The system will make it possible for satellites and other craft travelling in low-Earth orbit (LEO), including the International Space Station (ISS) and even space drones, to send vast quantities of data back to ground with minimal delay.

Currently satellites are only able to send back data during around a tenth of their orbit time, when they have line-of-sight with their ground stations. (The ISS is a bit special: it uses multiple base stations so that it rarely goes out of coverage.)

The European Data Relay System (EDRS) nodes will be able to relay those signals from much farther out in geostationary orbit, vastly increasing that window of opportunity—four-fold with just the first node, and ultimately to near-constant coverage. At 1.8Gbps, the link will also provide faster transfers than currently possible, sending up to 50TB per day.

[Takeovers]

China yesterday successfully launched another satellite of their navigation satellite constellation Beidou.



Here a picture of first stage parts dropping near a village.



That vile looking cloud is N2O4, the oxidizer of the first stage fuel. The fuel is
dimethylhydrazine.



Both substances are highly toxic and cancer causing. So it is very reassuring to see the cloud is some distance from the village.

The same fuel is used by the russian proton and some indian rockets. It is also used, in much smaller quantities, by satellites for their attitude control systems and by the Dragon spacecraft. They are popular for these uses because they are long term storable in space.

After a Proton failure at the pad some high ranking person insisted on inspecting the crash site immediately and died of cancer a few years later. Very likely related to that inspection tour.

There is one positive point. While highly dangerous both substances decay very fast in the environment and won't pose any long term threat.

[Takeovers]

Meet Emily Lakdawalla from the Planetary Society. Here an interview by CNN with Emily about going and living on Mars.

Should humans even try to move to Mars? - CNN Video

She is brilliant in reporting on anything space. Her artcles are very well researched with deep knowledge of every subject she takes on. Very different from reporting often seen even in space related news outlets. When interested in space it is impossible to miss her.

Never knew she is cute as well, though.

[Takeovers]

A story by Bloomberg on Elon Musk and how he came to found SpaceX



Elon Musk?s Space Dream Almost Killed Tesla | Bloomberg Business

Elon Musk’s Space Dream Almost Killed Tesla

By Ashlee Vance | May 14, 2015
Illustrations by The Red Dress
SpaceX started with a plan to send mice to Mars. It got crazier from there.

In late October 2001, Elon Musk went to Moscow to buy an intercontinental ballistic missile. He brought along Jim Cantrell, a kind of international aerospace supplies fixer, and Adeo Ressi, his best friend from Penn. Although Musk had tens of millions in the bank, he was trying to get a rocket on the cheap. They flew coach, and they were planning to buy a refurbished missile, not a new one. Musk figured it would be a good vehicle for sending a plant or some mice to Mars.
Ressi, a gangly eccentric, had been thinking a lot about whether his best friend had started to lose his mind, and he’d been doing his best to discourage the project. He peppered Musk with links to video montages of Russian, European, and American rockets exploding. He staged interventions, bringing Musk’s friends together to talk him out of wasting his money. None of it worked. Musk remained committed to funding a grand, inspirational spectacle in space and would spend all of his fortune to do it. And so Ressi went to Russia to contain Musk as best as he could. “Adeo would call me to the side and say, ‘What Elon is doing is insane. A philanthropic gesture? That’s crazy,’” said Cantrell. “He was seriously worried.”

The group set up a few meetings with companies such as NPO Lavochkin, which had made probes intended for Mars and Venus for the Russian Federal Space Agency, and Kosmotras, a commercial rocket launcher based in Moscow. The appointments all seemed to go the same way, following Russian decorum. The Russians, who often skip breakfast, would ask to meet around 11 a.m. at their offices for an early lunch. Then there would be small talk for an hour or more as the meeting attendees picked over a spread of sandwiches, sausages, and, of course, vodka. After lunch came a lengthy smoking and coffee drinking period. Once all of the tables were cleared, the Russian in charge would turn to Musk and ask, “What is it you’re interested in buying?” The big windup may not have bothered Musk as much if the Russians had taken him more seriously. They viewed Musk as a novice when it came to space and did not appreciate his bravado. “One of their chief designers spit on me and Elon because he thought we were full of s---,” Cantrell said. Team Musk returned empty-handed.
In February 2002 the group returned to Russia, this time bringing Mike Griffin, who had worked for the CIA’s venture capital arm, In-Q-Tel; NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory; and was just leaving Orbital Sciences, a maker of satellites and spacecraft. Musk was now looking for not one but three missiles and had a briefcase full of cash, too. They met with Kosmotras officials in an ornate, neglected, prerevolutionary building near downtown Moscow. The vodka shots started—“To space!” “To America!”—and, a little buzzed, Musk asked point-blank how much a missile would cost. Eight million dollars each, they said. Musk countered, offering $8 million for two. “They sat there and looked at him,” Cantrell said. “And said something like, ‘Young boy. No.’ They also intimated that he didn’t have the money.” At this point, Musk had decided the Russians were either not serious about doing business or were just determined to part a dot-com millionaire from as much of his money as possible. He stormed out of the meeting.
The team went out into the snow and dreck of the Moscow winter, hailed a cab, and drove straight to the airport. The Russians were the only ones with rockets that could possibly fit within Musk’s budget, and they were too difficult to deal with. “It was a long drive,” Cantrell said. “We sat there in silence looking at the Russian peasants shopping in the snow.” The somber mood lingered all the way to the plane, until the drink cart arrived. “You always feel particularly good when the wheels lift off in Moscow,” Cantrell said. “It’s like, ‘My God. I made it.’ So, Griffin and I got drinks and clinked our glasses.” Musk sat in the row in front of them, typing on his computer. “We’re thinking, ‘F---ing nerd: What can he be doing now?’ ” At which point Musk wheeled around and flashed a spreadsheet he’d created.
“Hey, guys,” he said, “I think we can build this rocket ourselves.”

[Hans Mann]

[Takeovers]

Fascinating photo just released from that historic first landing of a first stage, just seconds before landing. It shows more details than previous released photos. The legs are in the process of deployment.

[Takeovers]

A photo by the Curiosity rover. Strange looking, IMO water was involved in creating this. But what are those white streaks?

[harrybarracuda]

There's gold in them thar hills!

[Takeovers]

Not exactly news. A photo of the russian moon lander they built to beat the US to the moon. It never flew because their N1 rocket exploded every time they tried to launch it. It was a one man lander. The N1 would have been the rocket with the largest thrust ever but not very efficient so not as much payload as Saturn V was able to send to the moon.

[Takeovers]

A new photo from the Indian Mars orbiter Mangalyaan.



Maybe not as scientific valuable as photos from other orbiters. But they do have a fascination I don't see in other pictures. It shows landscapes in a brilliant way.

[Sumbitch]

^ Olympus Mons, I presume. If so, that's the largest volcano in the solar system. And the picture certainly doesn't provide a depth perception of a diameter of 374 mi, a height of 16 mi and the whole thing sitting on a scarp (a very steep bank or slope) 4 mi high.

The following is a 3-D view that shows what I'm talkin' about, although I certainly don't get excited over it either. You'd probably have to be on the ground to get some spectacular pics:

[Takeovers]

Olympus Mons, I presume.

Close. It is not Olympus Mons, the largest volcano. It is Arsia Mons, the second largest. Maybe I should have mentioned it but I was mainly looking for that aesthetic impression it makes on me which for some reason the pictures of other more advanced orbiters don't.

Quote from wikipedia:

The volcano is 435 kilometres (270 mi) in diameter, almost 20 kilometres (12 miles) high (more than 9 kilometers (5.6 mi) higher than the surrounding plains[2])

[Takeovers]

Another landing attempt by SpaceX on their latest satellite launch, the SES-9 satellite. Successful launch of the satellite into a high orbit with the heaviest geostationary satellite by SpaceX yet.

The landing was a real suicide attempt this time. Very little fuel left but they wanted to test the limits. The incoming first stage actually punched a hole into the deck this time. SpaceX are still happy about the outcome, they gained valuable data on the limits of their system. They actually expected the stage to disintegrate on reentry very high up as they had not enough fuel for braking as they had before. So surviving the reentry and being able to reach their target in itself is a bonus.



Some more about this flight. Initially they intended to deliver the satellite into a lower orbit and keep more fuel for landing. However after delays they offered their customer a better orbit so they can make up for the delay. Geostationary satellites are delivered by the launch vehicle not to its target orbit but to a transfer orbit and the satellite then reaches the target orbit under its own power. That takes time. From the initially planned transfer orbit they would have needed 90 days. The orbit they got allows them to reach their planned position in 45 days, making up for launch delays. But it cut the fuel availabe for landing short.

[BaitongBoy]

Very interesting...