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  1. #3376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post


    .

    Nauka is expected at the ISS today.
    I hope the brakes work.

  2. #3377
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    Just saw the capture, thanks for the heads up.

  3. #3378
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I hope the brakes work.

    They did. Nauka is docked to the ISS.

    Space News thread-nauka-docked-jpg

  4. #3379
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    Very cool, thanks!

  5. #3380
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    Very cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Nauka is docked to the ISS.

    Space News thread-nauka-docked-jpg
    Is the full name Nauka the Redeemer.

  6. #3381
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    Some alignment issues from 34 minute (200m) mark, capture at 50+ minute mark.

    A very calm female reporting, a slightly rising pitch in her voice, but still calm until it's captured and then a deep breath.

    Lots of "please press the button again, turn the xxx on again"

    Some "discolouration/damage"? on the left hand side.

    "Hard Mate" (it's a technical term) at 59 minute mark.
    Last edited by OhOh; 29-07-2021 at 11:09 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  7. #3382
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    "Einstein was probably one of them".

    Astronomers have detected light behind a black hole deep in space for the first time.

    Bright flares of X-rays were spotted bursting from a supermassive black hole at the centre of a galaxy 800m light years away, which is relatively normal.

    Researchers were studying a feature known as the corona, but telescopes also picked up unexpected “luminous echoes”. These additional flashes were smaller, later and of different colours than the bright flares.


    The discovery confirms Albert Einstein’s theory on general relativity. The gravitational pull from black holes essentially bends light rays around themselves, giving scientists their first glimpse of what lies behind.

    Roger Blandford, a co-author of the research, published in Nature, said: “Fifty years ago, when astrophysicists started to speculate how the magnetic field might behave close to a black hole, they had no idea that one day we might have the techniques to observe this directly and see Einstein’s general theory of relativity in action.”

    Dan Wilkins, an astrophysicist from Stanford University, said: “Any light that goes into that black hole doesn’t come out, so we shouldn’t be able to see anything that’s behind the black hole.


    “The reason we can see that is because that black hole is warping space, bending light and twisting magnetic fields around itself.”
    Astronomers detect light behind black hole for first time | Black holes | The Guardian

  8. #3383
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    Nauka continued firing its attitude control engines after docking and shook the whole ISS. It is stopped now but caused a lot of problems. I doubt that NASA would have let that piece of junk attach to the ISS.

  9. #3384
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Nauka continued firing its attitude control engines after docking and shook the whole ISS. It is stopped now but caused a lot of problems. I doubt that NASA would have let that piece of junk attach to the ISS.
    Fuck that's not good. Seems it happened three hours after docking.

    What's Starliner?

    Serious drama unfolded in low Earth orbit today when the newly arrived Nauka module, for reasons unknown, began to fire its thrusters after docking to the ISS. Mission controllers are now working to control what appears to be an ongoing situation.

    Nothing appears to be damaged, and NASA says the crew is safe, but things got really weird about three hours after Russia’s Nauka module reached the International Space Station at 9:29 a.m. EDT this morning.

    After the rendezvous and docking, ISS crew members went to work, checking for leaks at the interface point, opening the hatch, and integrating computers on the newly arrived Nauka module, also known as the Russian Multipurpose Laboratory.

    Suddenly and without warning, at around 12:45 p.m. EDT, Nauka’s thrusters unexpectedly and inadvertently began to fire. This caused the ISS to lose attitude control to the tune of 45 degrees, according to a livestream on NASA TV. It is not yet known what caused the situation to happen. One possibility is that Nauka’s computers thought it was still docking, resulting in the thrusters being fired, but that’s not confirmed.

    Flight controllers re-oriented the space station by performing a counterbalancing “roll control” procedure. They did this by firing thrusters on the Russian Zvezda module and a Progress cargo ship currently docked to the ISS. This recovery effort worked, and the ISS has returned to its normal orientation. The station is now back in full attitude control, and no damage or injuries to crew members have been reported. NASA went on to say that crew members were never in any danger during the incident.

    At one point, Drew Morgan from NASA mission control asked the astronauts to look outside to see if they could spot any debris floating around, or if they could see any damage to the station. NASA says the ISS is currently in a stable configuration, and recovery operations are ongoing.

    This work, it should be pointed out, is being done with a partially fueled Nauka docked to the station, so the thrusters could still go into action. UPDATE 3:49 p.m. EDT: According to Anatoly Zak, a reporter with Russian Space Web, Nauka has
    burned through all its propellent, so the threat of further firings by the thrusters seems to have passed.

    Rumors are already swirling that tomorrow’s launch of an uncrewed Boeing Starliner will be canceled as a result of this incident. UPDATE: 3:54 p.m. EDT: It’s official: Friday’s launch of Starliner has been canceled. We are now awaiting a new date for lift off.

    Regular activities for the day have been canceled at the ISS as the crew and mission controllers on the surface continue to monitor the situation. Again, it’s not known why Nauka’s thrusters began to fire, and an investigation is now pending. This is unfolding incident, and we will update this article as we learn more.
    Russian Module Unexpectedly Fires Thrusters After Docking to ISS

  10. #3385
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    Sounds like the storyline of a space disaster movie.

  11. #3386
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    ISS crew members went to work, checking for leaks at the interface point, opening the hatch, and integrating computers on the newly arrived Nauka module
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    It is not yet known what caused the situation to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Again, it’s not known why Nauka’s thrusters began to fire, and an investigation is now pending.
    Prior to docking, it appears the Russian Flight Control in Korolyova had sole control.

    Who has access to the newly arrived modules computors once it docked with the ISS?

    The ground based Russian Flight Control in Korolyova, the NASA ISS Flight Control in Houston, the ISS based Russian astronauts or the other ISS astronauts, others ....?

    How secure are computors?

    Who will manage the investigation?


    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    Sounds like the storyline of a space disaster movie.
    It certainly is.

  12. #3387
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    Looks like hoohoo thinks that NASA might have sabotaged its own space station.

    He's very weird.

  13. #3388
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    NASA might have sabotaged its own space station.


    You are such an expert of so many things, eh.

    I'm under the impression they're Russian and ameristani module. Possibly EU ones.

    OhOh! Look here is an EU link to their paperwork spelling out the "RULES".

    Which presumably is mirrored in the other partners paperwork, assuming of course ameristan has not "withdrawn" from another signed, legally entered into, agreement:

    Who owns the International Space Station?

    "The Intergovernmental Agreement allows the Space Station Partners States to extend their national jurisdiction in outer space, so the elements they provide (e.g. laboratories) are assimilated to the territories of the Partners States.

    The basic rule is that 'each partner shall retain jurisdiction and control over the elements it registers and over personnel in or on the Space Station who are its nationals' (Article 5 of the Intergovernmental Agreement).

    This means that the owners of the Space Station - the United States, Russia, the European Partner, Japan and Canada - are legally responsible for the respective elements they provide. The European States are being treated as one homogenous entity, called the European Partner on the Space Station. But any of the European States may extend their respective national laws and regulations to the European elements, equipment and personnel.

    This extension of national jurisdiction determines what laws are applicable for activities occurring on a Partner’s Space Station elements (e.g. European law in the European Columbus Laboratory). This legal regime recognises the jurisdiction of the Partner States’s courts and allows the application of national laws in such areas as criminal matters, liability issues, and protection of intellectual property rights.

    Any conflicts of jurisdiction between the Partners may be resolved through the application of other rules and procedures already developed nationally and internationally."

    Didn't this latest module dock in a Russian port, on a Russian module delivered in xxxx previously?

    Other topics covered in the EU site:

    The Space Station Agreements

    What is the European share of Space Station’s Utilisation rights?

    Who is liable in case something goes wrong?

    Protection of intellectual property rights

    Who owns the intellectual property derived from Space Station utilisation?

    ESA - International Space Station legal framework
    Last edited by OhOh; 30-07-2021 at 06:15 PM.

  14. #3389
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    You do realise they are all one big space station right?

    You know, like, if they fuck it up everyone dies.

    You really are a twat.


    Space News thread-mpfet8wxkzenqazxvrg7k5-jpg

  15. #3390
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Looks like hoohoo thinks that NASA might have sabotaged its own space station.

    He's very weird.
    Nasa doesn't have a space station.


    May I suggest less shite, more space news.

  16. #3391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    Nasa doesn't have a space station.


    May I suggest less shite, more space news.
    It's funny how they slipped the word "space" into "International Space Station".

    Fucking fooled you didn't it?

  17. #3392
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Fucking fooled you didn't it?
    Sure did.


    Okay, back to the Space News Thread.

  18. #3393
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    Well the latest news is that the ISS is back where it's supposed to be, the module has run out of fuel and all the spacemen are safe.

    This must have twitched a few sphincters though.

    NASA officials declared it a "spacecraft emergency" as the space station experienced a loss of attitude (the angle at which the ISS is supposed to remain oriented) control for nearly one hour, and ground controllers lost communications with the seven astronauts currently aboard the ISS for 11 minutes during the ordeal. A joint investigation between NASA and the Russian space agency Roscosmos is now ongoing.

  19. #3394
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    The Nauka Incident: Deja Vu All Over Again In Space - NASA Watch

    Space Station Incident Demands Independent Investigation, Jim Oberg, IEEE Spectrum


    "How close the station had come to disaster is an open question, and the flight director humorously alluded to it in a later tweet that he'd never been so happy as when he saw on external TV cameras that the solar arrays and radiators were still standing straight in place. And any excessive bending stress along docking interfaces between the Russian and American segments would have demanded quick leak checks. But even if the rotation was "simple," the undeniably dramatic event has both short term and long-term significance for the future of the space station. And it has antecedents dating back to the very birth of the ISS in 1997."


    Keith's note: The first person I thought of when this happened was Jim Oberg. Back in the 90s Jim and I were tag teaming coverage of things that happened on board Mir as part of the Phase 1 effort to build a joint U.S./Russian space station out of what was once Mir-2 and Space Station Freedom. NASA was not happy with what we reported. Much of what we uncovered spoke to bad communications between the U.S. and Russian teams, an underlying level of distrust, and a lot of ad hoc decision making. But the over-arching intent on both sides was to make things work - since things simply had to work - and to put forth that unified front - especially when things got rocky.


    These items from 1997 come to mind:


    Charlie Harlin's Thoughts on Spaceflight Safety, 29 June 1997


    "When NASA originally began the Shuttle/Mir Program, no rigorous safety analysis or risk analysis was accomplished. NASA decided based on the then understood historical performance of safe Mir operations to accept that record as a given. This was done by a subjective review process unlike the systematic safety and reliability analytical techniques utilized for U.S. human spaceflight. If you remember, at that time the Russians were not always forthright about their systems failures or some of the problems they had in the past. The decision was made at the highest levels of NASA, and the formal safety analysis that was established for the Phase I Program was only for the new joint operations activities, new experiments, and new procedures. The acceptance of the existing Mir safety record was driven by management judgment, and therefore for formal and structured documented risk baseline exists for the start of the program. It should be very clear to everyone that the risk level to human safety on the Mir Station has increased somewhat since the early management decisions and agreements were made."


    Better-Cheaper-Faster: The Risk of Being Open and Honest (Part 1), 16 July 1997


    "Instead, PAO reverts to its least open behavior on the Shuttle/Mir program. A harbinger of things to come on ISS? Individuals who are allowed to speak for NASA are thoroughly briefed so as to know what NOT to say. Press releases are diluted and sanitized. I get all the internal NASA email, so I see what doesn't make it on TV - or the press wires. I hear all the stories from frustrated program managers who speak of PAO saying things such as "why do they need to know this" or "we'd rather not let that out right now".


    Keith's note: Echoes from the past. Example: the sanitized stuff that dribbled out of NASA PAO after the Nauka event designed to minimize details as to what actually happened and to accentuate the level of cooperation between the U.S., Russia, and other ISS partners. I guess we'll have to wait for one of those one hour Aerospace Safety Advisory Committee telecon meetings at some point in the future - the sort of meeting NASA PAO never announces - where the truth will start to dribble out - as it did after Mir and other accidents.


    Jim also recounts the rocky first hours of the launch of FGB-1 - aka Zarya - on 20 November 1998. It refused to obey firing commands and the U.S. was kept in the dark for a while. Flash forward to 2021 and its twin - Nauka - originally built as FGB-2 as the back up for FGB-1 (paid for by the U.S.) had similar problems once reaching space.


    To be certain the International Space Station program has been a resounding success overall and future international efforts could do well to learn from it. Given the continued bad blood between the U.S. and Russia it is astonishing that the ISS has managed to exist - literally and politically - above the fray of terrestrial squabbles. Indeed, it has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize as a result - an idea I personally thing is worth pursuing. I am one of the 100,000+ people who designed and built this amazing spacecraft - one that was paid for by over a billion taxpayers. And I call it the "Undiscovered Country" since I feel its fullest potential has yet to be tapped.


    But, accomplishments and potential aside, this does not mean that the picture onboard the ISS is perfect. It is not. Underneath the orbital comradery there are still problems. The ISS program just declared the first "spacecraft emergency" in its entire existence on orbit. That is big news, right? Yet NASA and Roscosmos do not want to talk about it. Why is that?


    I hope Congress holds a hearing on this - just like they did after the fire and collision on Mir a quarter of a century ago. If something is broken then it needs to be fixed - even if NASA won't admit that there is a problem. And what is it they say about people and organizations who have problems? The first step is to admit that there is a problem.
    Nauka Was An Accident Waiting To Happen And NASA Knew - NASA Watch
    Nauka Was An Accident Waiting To Happen And NASA Knew, earlier post

  20. #3395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    I hope Congress holds a hearing on this
    Is Congress competent to hear, question and arrive at a conclusion?

    Surely it's the likes of all the ISS partners, along with their experts,


    • United States - NASA.
    • Russia - Roscosmos.
    • Canada - CSA.
    • Japan - JAXA.
    • Europe - ESA country members include: Belgium. Denmark - DNSC. France - CNES. French version. English version. Germany - DLR. German version. English version. Italy - ASI. Italian version. English version. Netherlands. Norway - NSC.


    If they are all considered equals.

    Who will advise their ISS partner leaders.

    Who will then publish a "report".


  21. #3396
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Is Congress competent to hear, question and arrive at a conclusion?
    They can call for an independent panel, if they don't trust NASA. I have watched a Congress Committee hearing where Congress members proposed legislation. Expert witnesses from ULA, the Airforce and from SpaceX all told them it is not feasible. The Congress members were not impressed and pushed for their legislation anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    If they are all considered equals.
    NASA is the lead for Canada, Japan, Europe. Unlikely they will challenge NASA.

    You can be 100% sure that Nauka would not have docked to the ISS if NASA were responsible. But they did not challenge Roskosmos when they decided to go ahead.

    -----

    There are things that should never happen but occasionally they do happen. So one can not condemn Roskosmos for a single event. But recent years have seen a string of failures. Beginning with failed unmanned missions, to the point where they now get virtually no commercial customers any more. But then the mishaps spilled into the manned program.

    A failure of Soyuz on ascent. Abort worked and the cosmonauts and a US astronaut survived the crash.

    Somebody drilled a hole into a Soyuz spaceship orbital module. It was inexpertly fixed and the fix failed while Soyuz was docked to the ISS. The ISS commander, who was a German Astronaut at the time, did the first fix by putting his thumb over the hole. There was a major investigation. Roskosmos declared they clarified what happened but never told NASA or the public what it was.

    A Russian ISS module started leaking. There were repeated statements the problem was identified and fixed, yet new leaks popped up and the module is still leaking, but nobody talks about it any more. Roskosmos just provides replacement air.

    And now NAUKA, which was a string of failures all by itself and NASA helps Roskosmos to sweep it under the rug.
    Last edited by Takeovers; 09-08-2021 at 07:15 PM.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

  22. #3397
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    ^
    Thank you.

    How reliant are the two senior partners on each other's systems on a day-to-day basis?

    Do they both have mirrored systems?

    There is scant reporting on the topic from the general media. Is that by design, as both/all are needed for ISS to function?

  23. #3398
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    Deja Vu all over again.

    WASHINGTON: Boeing delayed an uncrewed flight of its Starliner capsule to the International Space Station (ISS) on Tuesday over a propulsion issue, pushing back by at least a day a key test it last attempted in 2019.

    The spaceship had been due to launch on an United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V rocket from the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida early in the afternoon.


    But just over two hours before lift-off, the company tweeted it was scrubbing the flight.


    A statement by NASA said the test was canceled not because of inclement weather but "due to unexpected valve position indications in the Starliner propulsion system."
    Boeing delays key uncrewed test flight to ISS

  24. #3399
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    ^
    Thank you.

    How reliant are the two senior partners on each other's systems on a day-to-day basis?
    So reliant that they are both going off to develop their own replacements.

  25. #3400
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    How reliant are the two senior partners on each other's systems on a day-to-day basis?

    Do they both have mirrored systems?
    Most systems are parallel, but sometimes back up the other. I remember that oxygen production on the US side used to be unreliable and they needed russian support sometimes. But that was a long time ago and I think it is fixed now.

    NASA is fully reliant on Roskosmos for propulsion. They are the only ones who have propulsion modules for attitude control, evasion of space debris and orbit raising. One could argue that the propulsion module is NASA because the USA paid for it. But even if that were the case, NASA can not operate it. Russian Progress cargo ship is the only vehicle to refuel the ISS system.

    NASA could acquire that capability but it would take the will to do it, some funding and some time. Orbital ATK supply ship Cygnus has that capability. But it would need to be certified for a longer stay at the ISS. Not sure if they would need a bigger tank. Also it is not a permanent part of the ISS. They would need to bring another Cygnus up and operational before the old one unberths. Not sure how that would work with the available berthing ports.

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