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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat
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    Justice in Thailand

    Here is a salutary tale for those about to build in Thailand, using an apparently reputable building company up in Chiang Mai. It is also an insight into the law and justice system

    We have some friends ( a farang/Thai couple) who bought an older condo, very large but a bit outdated. They decided to totally remodel the whole place and got some building quotes – they eventually chose one of the companies and made a contract with them

    This included a 3.5 million baht upfront fee with the balance payable upon completion, so quite a lot of work and some very expensive fittings

    They paid the money, the builders started work and then…vanished, along with the money. The couple went to the police and got little joy, it seemed as if they were just not interested. They gave all the information to the police, including a copy of the contract (which had details of the main builder’s name etc) but nothing happened. They felt that the police had been paid off to do nothing.

    The Thai woman, however, had a nice father, who was an ex-senior policeman with several powerful friends. He asked one of them, a high up Army man, to help sort out this problem for his daughter. He was happy to do so and within a few days found the man in Bangkok. They arrested him and took him to a police station where he was locked up by the army, the police having been told to keep out of it.

    After three days the army men went back to the station and beat up the man severely, leaving him unconscious, they then left again. After another three days they went back and gave the man a choice, either pay the money back or vanish. Apparently this Army guy is an expert in “vanishing” people for senior government figures.

    The builder paid back all the money immediately and was let go.

    Now this builder and his company have been doing this for years apparently, taking money from farang and vanishing, and most of them have little recourse and just lose their money, the police having been paid off to do nothing.

    Whether he will continue to do this is now an interesting question
    I have reported your post

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Interesting tale

    3.5 mill up front ?

    Hmm. A bit risky, I would say

  3. #3
    loob lor geezer
    Bangyai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post

    ....... using an apparently reputable building company ...

    Hmmm..... apparently not.

    Just goes to show, if you don't do absolutely thorough research you sometimes pay the price. Still, a happy ending except for the builder.

    For those without useful contacts a hit man might be of more use than the police


  4. #4
    I am in Jail
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    I never pay up front. Why should you have to? In Mexico some painter wanted 50 bucks in advance to buy the paint. He's a businessman who doesn't have 50 dollars? Why would I do business with him? My neighbor in Costa Rica was building a second home and gave some guy thousands for material, it never came. The contractor was a local. He never even bothered to keep a low profile. Every time he was seen he'd say: There's a truck-load of materials on the way as we speak.

    So in the best cases they ask for money cause they don't trust you, you won't give it cause you don't trust them .. checkmate.

  5. #5
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    3.5 milion up front, if smoebody else had written this thread then can you imagine the scorn and insults that Dr Andy would have come out with...

  6. #6
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    I am not sure why you would say that; 30% up front is quite normal for any building contract with a reputable company, 50% would be a bit much but still happens

    I paid 30% upfront to my builder for the flats conversion I am undertaking

    as for the story, I am of mixed feelings

    yes, they guy got what he deserved and my friends got their money bacl

    and no, the rest of the people cheated haven't got any money back due to police corruption, the plague of Thailand

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Only a fucking idiot would give a Thai that sort of money up front.

    Buy your own materials and only pay for labour - on completion or pro rata.

    There's also the chance a very aggrieved Thai is going to want someone to put a couple of bullets in the back of someone's head.

    I reckon there is less to this story than we are being told.

    Chiang Mai is full of these Chinese whisperers.
    The next post may be brought to you by my little bitch Spamdreth

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat
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    ^ the money was paid to the building company, which was well established, apparently

    my friends are not builders and had no wish to be, they are rich enough to get a company to do all the dirty work



    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    There's also the chance a very aggrieved Thai is going to want someone to put a couple of bullets in the back of someone's head.
    I think the guy would be too scared to even think about it, he knows what would happen


    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    I reckon there is less to this story than we are being told. Chiang Mai is full of these Chinese whisperers.
    are you saying I am merely repeating what I have heard

    yes, directly from the couple - I did say they were friends

  9. #9
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    3.5mm baht, and that's just down payment, for a remodel of a single condo? That's around $117K USD! Won't that kind of money buy a large-ish multi-dwelling building or two? WTF? What did the condo cost? How many square meters?

    It also sounds like a case of, "don't over-improve your real estate" (relative to the neighborhood, or other condos in the bldg in this case)- coz you won't get the $ back on resale. But that's their biz!

    I'm glad they got the dough back and all, but barring extraordinary circumstances which Andy hasn't shared- that sounds like the guy put himself in sick jeopardy of this very kind of thing happening! Now I see Andy's post that this was 30% down, meaning full remodel cost was to be ~$385K USD,

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat
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    yes, a large and posh condo, and they have the money too

    maybe why they didn't think too much about handing over so much cash, it seemed reasonable and, most times, it would be

    I suppose you would not be happy spending a million or two on a new kitchen but many people are

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    For 385k USD couldn't one buy the whole of Chiang Mai instead of renovating some shitty overpriced condo, what was the initial outlay to buy the shit pit ?

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat
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    I should have left out the amount of money as people seem to be amazed that some people have rather a lot

    then they could have concentrated on the matter at hand - justice

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    I should have left out the amount of money as people seem to be amazed that some people have rather a lot
    You misunderstand

    The 3,5 mill might be a little bit too tempting for weaker souls

    And in my experience the 'haffs' aren't exactly known for throwing their dole in the nearest klong

    At times it's actually the reason that they are 'haffs'

    A mill for a kitcken in the west aren't unusual as you say

    Thailand, I don't know

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    I am not sure why you would say that; 30% up front is quite normal for any building contract with a reputable company, 50% would be a bit much but still happens

    I paid 30% upfront to my builder for the flats conversion I am undertaking

    as for the story, I am of mixed feelings

    yes, they guy got what he deserved and my friends got their money bacl

    and no, the rest of the people cheated haven't got any money back due to police corruption, the plague of Thailand
    Complete shite.

    Mobilization fee is 15% max. Then progressive payments based on materials on site and works progress.

    The plague of Thailand is stupid kunts with too much money and no perception of the devious Thai.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat
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    ^ complete shite indeed

    who cares a fuk what you think?

    if you can't read, that is your problem

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge
    A mill for a kitcken in the west aren't unusual as you say Thailand, I don't know
    sometimes more due to the heavy import taxes on equipment

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    ^ complete shite indeed

    who cares a fuk what you think?

    if you can't read, that is your problem
    1. Yes 30% upfront is abnormal and a teeny bit stupid as fuck.
    2. If you didn't care a fuk what I think (read know) why bother responding in such an aggressive manner?
    3. I can read you like a book so read this Mr.Sausage Jockey

    "The plague of Thailand is stupid kunts with too much money and no perception of the devious Thai".

    If your friends had used some common sense there would have been no need for the arrest and beatings of the builder, would there?

    Clearly they paid way over the odds with the 30% upfront (upfront for what I might add?) and the overall price. This put the builder in holiday mode and he decided to live a little by spending what he perceived as a 3.5mill gift before starting work.

    Always amusing when kupid stunts expect the same rules to apply here as they do in the west....coz they fukin don't do they?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    yes, a large and posh condo, and they have the money too

    maybe why they didn't think too much about handing over so much cash, it seemed reasonable and, most times, it would be

    I suppose you would not be happy spending a million or two on a new kitchen but many people are
    I just see $ going so much further in Thailand, esp due to low labor cost. $385K usd is a very spendy remodel in the US- but here, it would be comparable to a $1-2 MM remodel in the states.

    In all but a few US cities, that $$ will buy you a lot of property!

    Sure many ppl have that kind of coin - not to offend, but your friend sounds like someone who didn't earn it, but rather inherited it, or won the lotto or whatever; coz those who actually earned it, accumulated and preserved it, don't tend to make those kind of business/investment decisions as your friend has demonstrated... in my experience anyways. U know the saying, a fool and their money are soon parted! I think Gordon Gecko revised it to say, "...are lucky to get together in the first place!" For those who earned it, it's rare to find their $$ "burning a hole in their pocket" (one of my Pops' old phrases, ).

  19. #19
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    This included a 3.5 million baht upfront fee
    Shit, according to your advice you could build a 580 square metre house for this Doc without bidets and Jacuzzis.

  20. #20
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    I've seen wondeful 3 bed properties on the river in Chiang Mai (freehold 2 storey homes) for 4.5 million.

    Regardless, some folks have loads of money... such is life, it's possible, but I've had builders in and if you give them 10k upfront then they get pissed and don't turn up for 2 weeks; you just can't give a Thai 1 baht ahead of schedule because, as I've said on others threads, once they have money in their hand they believe it is their entitlement fullstop.
    Cycling should be banned!!!

  21. #21
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    Sounds like bullshit to me.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malicious
    If your friends had used some common sense there would have been no need for the arrest and beatings of the builder, would there? Clearly they paid way over the odds with the 30% upfront (upfront for what I might add?) and the overall price. This put the builder in holiday mode and he decided to live a little by spending what he perceived as a 3.5mill gift before starting work.
    your assumptions are a stupid as yourself; 30% upfront is quite normal for building prjoects

    if you had read the post you would have noticed that this builder had been ripping people off in this manner for some time, it had become his normal modus operandi, it seems, behind the front of a reputable building company

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveboy View Post
    Sounds like bullshit to me.

    what, the story

    sorry to disappoint you, but it is true

    nobody has commented on the main points, just focussing on the money because that seems to be out of their league

    so now we have got that out of the way, the rest may be worth considering

    it illustrates one of the most painful points of living in Thailand, the corrupt justice system

    no problem if you don't get caught up in something, but when you do, unlike most of us at home, there is little recourse to the police

    you need someone powerful on your side

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    nobody has commented on the main points
    I think I did

    They dished out to much to begin with imo
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    the rest may be worth considering
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    it illustrates one of the most painful points of living in Thailand, the corrupt justice system
    Well, you could have warned them there

    This is hardly news, just as you can be unfortunate enough to run into dishonest builders

    Happens all around the world

    So the main point being discussed already

    Imo

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    No-one is commenting on the fact that this is a second hand story and the tellers might have embellished it somewhat.

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