Thread: Syria News and Editorials

Wu Sike said: Respecting a country’s sovereignty is the basic principle of the UN Charter. China has always observed and stressed this principle in dealing with international affairs.

Funny that. I think Tibet should be free. What do you think?

I know what the jolly nice Chinese think.

This is probably the only option right now to *try* and stop Assad bombing the shit out of his people.

UN chief: Joint Syria mission, envoy discussed
By ANITA SNOW, Associated Press – 7 hours ago
UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The head of the Arab League plans to send observers back into Syria and has raised the possibility of a joint mission with the United Nations, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Wednesday.
The U.N. chief's comments to reporters — after he briefed a closed U.N. Security Council session — came amid a search for new diplomatic approaches to deal with the protracted violence in Syria.
Ban said he spoke Tuesday with Arab League Secretary-General Nabil Elaraby, who "intends to send the Arab League observer mission back to Syria and ask for U.N. help."
Ban added that Elaraby "further suggested that we consider a joint observer mission in Syria, including a joint special envoy."
The U.N. chief provided no specifics, but the idea appears aimed at giving the regional group a boost after the league's earlier mission was pulled out of the country because of security concerns.
"In the coming days we will further consult with the council before fleshing out details," Ban said. "We stand ready to assist in any way that will contribute toward improvement on the ground."
Ban also reiterated his "deep regret" over the council's inability to speak in one voice to stop the bloodshed. The U.N. says more than 5,400 people have died in Syria's 11-month crackdown on civilian protests.
Russia and China used their veto powers on Saturday to block a Security Council resolution backing an Arab League peace plan that calls for Syrian President Bashar Assad to step aside.
Ban said the lack of council unity "has encouraged the Syrian government" to step up its attacks on civilians.
"Thousands have been killed in cold blood, shredding President Assad's claims to speak for the Syrian people," Ban said. "I fear that the appalling brutality we are witnessing in Homs, with heavy weapons firing into civilian neighborhoods, is a grim harbinger of worse to come."
The Syrian regime has used mortars, artillery and other heavy weapons against the central city of Homs, where activists say hundreds have been killed since Saturday.
Ban said the violence "is unacceptable before humanity."
"How many deaths will it take to halt this dangerous slide toward civil war and sectarian strife?" he asked. "I am convinced that the deteriorating situation in Syria will not leave the rest of the region untouched."
Copyright © 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Link

Originally Posted by OhOh

This is how we roll: FSA shows off APC (VIDEO) — RT

"Syrian rebels are rolling out armored hardware in their battle against government forces, if this footage is an indicator of the situations in Homs.

In the video, uploaded to YouTube by the Free Syrian Army, a group of fighters is attacking Bustan ad-Divan checkpoint in the city of Homs using a Soviet-made BMP, an infantry fighting vehicle that is equipped with a cannon.

The vehicle presumably was captured from the government forces or acquired from army defectors."

Continues....

Unarmed civilians my arse, these are terrorist insurgents aided and abetted by the crusader coalition and the puppet dictators in the GCC.

OhOh you are going round in circles and it makes you look a bit dumb.

One more time: FREE SYRIAN ARMY. It has been discussed at length.

Let's not have to repeat ourselves, shall we?

The unarmed civilians are the ones hiding in Homs basements, and lighting fires on their roofs to make it look as if they've already been hit.

If I have to draw the distinction one more time, then you're either thick or just trying to fudge the discussion.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ of course, but harryb and his like are always keen to believe in fairy tales

Whilst of course we know your preference is fairy's tails. Got anything useful to add the discussion?

(Rhetorical question).

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Well it looks like the people of Homs are about to get a serious military battering, and all I can say is my thoughts are with them.

Five days of shelling and now a massacre to finish it off.

I hope you are proud of yourself, your Russian pricks.

Maybe the Syrians should follow the US model they adopted in Falluja, Iraq.

You remember, let the "unarmed civilians", except men between 12 and 65, out through the encircled force. Then obliterate men and boys along with a complete city with their 10,000 brave lads, tanks, artillery and bombers. That seemed to quieten down the insurgents for a few months

Two rights don't make a wrong. How is this relevant?

Although it would be preferable to the Israeli or Basher's father's approach of just shelling them and bulldozing buildings over the bodies.

News is slow coming out of Homs this morning, I'm guess both Sky and Al Jazeera are fearful of stick their heads above the parapet, if they are even still in there since dusk fell.

Mafraq, Jordan— Every day, rockets and mortars fired by regime forces rattle the streets of Homs. Armed rebels ambush government military checkpoints. Hatreds brew on either side of the avenues that divide the Syrian city.
Homs has become the focus of the worst violence of the 11-month-old uprising, which appears to be morphing into a civil war with fearsome sectarian overtones. Syria's third-largest city has become the major center of both resistance and reprisal, fueled in part by increasingly bold army defectors who want to bring down President Bashar Assad's autocratic regime by force.
Early in the uprising, residents tried to recreate the fervor of Egypt's Tahrir Square, only to face siege upon siege by government forces for nearly a year. Homs now is a powerful symbol of the revolution.
With many neighborhoods outside government control, the regime's tanks and snipers are again opening fire in an offensive that began early Saturday to root out pockets resistance and retake control of an area that holds great strategic importance in Syria.
"You'll be shot dead, if you go out," Samar Rahim, 32, said in this Jordanian farming town along the Syrian border, one week after she fled Homs with her family. "Snipers are firing at anyone in the streets. That's why we left everything behind."
Rahim and other refugees interviewed described living in fear, hunkering down inside their homes and desperately trying to protect their young children.
A woman who was three months pregnant was shot and killed when she ventured out for an errand, Rahim said. A 10-year-old boy on her street also was killed. Another neighbor was shot immediately when she opened her front door.
"We didn't dare go out, not even for bread, fearing we would be shot," said Rahim, who used her family's savings to flee 150 miles to Jordan, along with her husband, five children and disabled mother-in-law.
Homs, a city of about 1 million, shelters a large number of military defectors known as the Free Syrian Army.
It also holds a now-explosive sectarian mix, with a majority from the Sunni Muslim community — which has been the backbone of the uprising — and large communities of Alawites, the Shiite offshoot sect that has stood firmly by Assad, himself an Alawite.

'Genocide' in Syrian city continues as army moves in
AMMAN, SYRIA - Feb 09 2012 07:08

Armoured reinforcements poured into Homs as President Bashar al-Assad's forces bombarded the Syrian city for a fourth day, opposition sources said on Thursday, worsening the humanitarian situation and prompting a new diplomatic push from Turkey.

Violence in Syria has escalated to a level described by the opposition Syrian National Council as "genocide", with regime forces in the central city of Homs alone killing at least 80 people during a three day clash.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said, before flying to Washington for talks on Syria that Turkey which once saw Assad as a valuable ally but now wants him out, could no longer stand by and watch.

He said Turkey wanted to host an international meeting to agree ways to end the killing and provide aid.

"It is not enough being an observer," he said. "It is time now to send a strong message to the Syrian people that we are with them," he added, while refusing to be drawn on what kind of action Turkey or its allies would be prepared to consider.

Scores were killed in Homs on Wednesday, according to the opposition, drawing comparison with the plight of the city of Benghazi which triggered Western attacks on Libya last year and accelerating a global diplomatic showdown whose outcome is far from clear.

Activists said that at least 40 tanks and 50 infantry fighting vehicles accompanied by 1 000 soldiers were transported from the nearby border with Lebanon and from the coast and deployed in Homs.

Large Sunni neighbourhoods, that have been the target of the heaviest rocket and mortar bombardment by Alawite-led forces loyal to Assad, remained without electricity and water and basic supplies were running low, activists in Homs said.

There was no comment from the Syrian authorities, who have placed tight restrictions on access to the country and it was not possible to verify the reports.

"We have seen in the last 24 hours incursions into neighbourhoods such as Khalidiya, Bab Amro and Inshaat. Tanks went in after heavy bombardment and then pulled back," activist Mohammad Hassan told Reuters by satellite phone.

Link

You have to admire the regime's guile. If you believe this, which I don't. It's as believable as finding a 9/11 terrorist's passport in the rubble: An invention of convenience in my opinion.

Israeli weapons from their buddies Hezbollah and US weapons from the GCC. But expected that they would try and spin this as the US and Israel stirring the pot, keeps the Russkies on their side, doesn't it?

Except I doubt that the Russians believe such a convenient "find" either.

Syria Claims to Capture U.S., Israeli Weapons in Homs

Syrian security forces claim to have captured an “armed gang” whose members possessed weapons manufactured in Israel and in the U.S.
By Elad Benari First Publish: 2/9/2012, 6:15 AM



Weapons (illustrative)
Israel news photo: Flash90

Syrian security forces are claiming to have captured an “armed gang” whose members possessed weapons manufactured in Israel and in the United States, local media reported on Wednesday.
According to the report on the government-run SANA news agency, the weapons, which were seized in a neighborhood in the city of Homs, were described as “high-quality weapons." The weapons include sniper rifles, mortars, missiles and other explosives, the report claimed.
This is not the first time that Syrian authorities have claimed they seized Israeli ammunition in the country. In September Syria claimed it found a Peugeot 404 car loaded with Israeli weapons, explosive devices, ammunition and stolen military uniforms.
The Syrian government, which has been cracking down on anti-regime protesters, has often blamed foreign forces for inciting the protests. The authorities have more than once claimed that “armed terrorists” are the reason for the full mobilization of military forces in Syria.
Syria state television has even shown footage of “terrorists” confessing to building bombs in order to attack civilians and Syrian forces.
On Wednesday, the head of the United Nations Human Rights Commission, Navi Pillay, called on the international community to "take effective action" to stop the killing in Syria.
Pillay said there is no statute of limitations for serious international crimes. There is an "extreme urgency for the international community to cut through the politics and take effective action to protect the Syrian population," she added.
Syrian troops stormed the central hotspot city of Homs this week, killing scoresof residents and rebels alike in the area of Bab Amr.

Here you go, OhOh, hopefully for the last time in this discussion, to draw distinction between civilian unarmed protesters and the armed resistance:

(CNN) -- One fateful consequence of President Bashar al-Assad's ferocious crackdown on Syrian protesters is the emergence of the domestic armed resistance, the Free Syrian Army.
Forged in neighboring Turkey over the summer by military defectors, the FSA has become a major factor in the opposition to the regime.
The grass-roots armed resistance is growing, attracting civilians as well as military defectors, and has become a thorn in the side of the Syrian military and the pro-regime militias, observers say. But it needs more personnel, better resources and improved coordination to take on the Syrian security presence, they add.
"The FSA is contributing to the strain on regime forces by requiring them to operate almost continuously and engage in frequent combat," said Jeffrey White, a defense fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
"This is in addition to the strain created by hundreds of peaceful civilian demonstrations across the country each week. The regime has been compelled to deploy larger forces and conduct more violent operations, increasing both its losses and the international visibility of its actions," he said.

"Although attrition of regime personnel is not yet numerically significant, the spectacle of burned-out government vehicles and dead soldiers likely rallies the opposition and decreases morale among regime loyalists."
White made remarks in a January 27 essay titled "The Free Syrian Army Bleeds the Assad Regime," and elaborated on that analysis in an interview Wednesday.
He said government operations "in recent days have pushed the FSA to a lower level of activity." But he also said the regime "has not been able to eradicate the FSA in any area."
He said the FSA has been engaged in combat in at least six of the country's 14 provinces -- Idlib, Hama, Homs, Deir Ezzor, Daraa, and Rif Dimashq. Rif Dimashq includes the Damascus suburbs.
The fighters have been "inflicting greater losses on regime personnel and equipment than at any time since its involvement in the uprising began," White said.
He said about 180 clashes were reported between early November and late January. One-third occurred in Idlib province and about a quarter in Daraa, while clashes have increased in Rif Dimashq.
The group has operated openly in places like Idlib province and the cities of Homs, Hama and Zabadani, and it has established control over some small pockets.
"Their most common operations include attacking regime positions (primarily checkpoints), defending demonstrators and local areas, and ambushing regime forces," White said.
Rebels say they are not getting weapons and money from outside groups. White said most of the weapons are captured or bought from the Syrian military. Some smuggling is reported, he added.
The rebels are getting better armed, with more and better antitank weapons, and the number of defections is growing, White said.
The FSA's acquisition of advanced antitank weapons is to date "the most significant arms development," he said. It claims to have used an RPG-29, a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, to destroy an infantry fighting vehicle in Daraa.
"Several videos suggest it has guided antitank missiles as well," White said.
"It seems to have no shortage of small arms and light crew-served weapons, including assault rifles, medium machine guns, standard rocket-propelled grenades, and scoped/sniper rifles. The FSA also claims to be employing improvised explosive devices against regime vehicles, and videos have corroborated this. In addition, it has begun using vehicles for tactical troop movement, equipped with improvised armor and machine guns."
There have been a number of cases of soldiers defecting with armored vehicles, he said.
The FSA claimed to have as many as 40,000 personnel. White said 4,000 to 7,000 is a "more reasonable estimate" but there has been a "substantial increase" from November. He said the size of group defections is growing, from the five to 20 people to platoon-sized defections of 30 or so people.
There are 38 named battalions in the FSA, some more closely associated with the central command than others, White said.
While there is guidance from FSA headquarters, there appears to be no day-to-day control. White said FSA battalions appear to be fighting alone and haven't yet shown "they can coordinate operations on a regional basis."
"Essentially these battalions are largely independent operations. There's no substructure underneath the FSA command in Turkey that operates the battalions," he said.
"It is unclear to what extent the FSA's command in Turkey exercises real control over operations, other than providing general guidance. It is also uncertain how much freedom of action Turkey allows these commanders. This means that FSA units are essentially conducting independent actions while the regime conducts coordinated operations."
Civilians have been joining FSA units because of the "synergy" between the resistance group and the populace, he said. Some civilians are locals who simply link up with battalions and there may be local defense groups forming under the Free Syrian Army banner.
"Some of these groups may have civilians who joined them. My sense is that the core, the primary combat forces, are coming from defectors," he said.
The group is also working to develop closer relations with the Syrian National Council, the political opposition.
While coordinating operations is one challenge for the FSA, others are cohesion and military limitations. News of a power struggle has emerged in recent days between FSA head Col. Riad al Assad and a general, Mustapha Sheikh, forming a rival Higher Military Council. Another group, the Al Faroukh Battalion, said it is operating outside the control of both groups.
FSA Lt. Col. Mohamed Hamado told CNN that "many of the officers fighting on the ground have pledged allegiance" to Sheikh. "They operate from the Turkish/Syrian borders at the refugee camps, while we are fighting on the ground and are very organized," he said.
White said any rift wouldn't help them but it's not having an effect on combat. It would have a greater effect if a world player decided it wanted to funnel money to the fighters.
U.S. lawmakers such as Sen. John McCain said Washington should consider arming such rebels.
White said it wouldn't surprise him if international clandestine services are feeling out the FSA to see "what they are made of," but there's no solid evidence of any outside help.
Hamado said that despite the FSA's efforts "it cannot defeat Assad's army with the weapons he is using. He has escalated his attacks by using helicopters, rocket launchers and mortars."
The Syrian regime is dominated by the Alawite minority. The Syrian opposition has a large Sunni component.
Hamado said there are concerns that among world powers that arms would fall into the hands of Islamists.
"The international community is reluctant to donate weapons because the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood is highly represented" in the Syrian National Council.
While Syrian militants wait for outside help, Hamado said the regime has backing from outside entities -- Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah in Syria.
"We have captured Iranian fighters from the Revolutionary Guard and broadcast the videos showing the weapons they used to refute claims that they were technicians. Many civilians and eyewitnesses gave testimonials about Iranians storming into their homes during the searches and arrests along with Assad's army recruits."
Based in Latakia, on the coast, Hamado said, he has seen signs of the Hezbollah modus operandi.
"What we know for sure is that the regime is digging trenches around Latakia coast just the same way they are dug in southern Lebanon, which is controlled by Hezbollah. Assad's Army has installed rocket launchers in the mountains of Latakia and are in a process of setting up a self-sustained region similar to the Hezbollah establishment in Lebanon, in order to have a base after Assad falls," Hamado said.
Aram Nerguizian, visiting fellow with Burke chair in strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said that despite some operational and tactical victories in the provinces of Idlib, Hama and Homs and in some Damascus suburbs, the Syrian military "continues to control many key checkpoints leading to rebel-held neighborhoods and districts."
The FSA needs "better organization, leadership, command and control and more military personnel and hardware" to compete with the government's "security apparatus" and resilient military. Nerguizian said its manpower is in the low thousands and "there are few indications that the force has been able to establish a clear chain of command."
He added that "elements of the armed opposition seem to be operating outside the umbrella of the FSA and cities like Homs and Hama have seen the emergence of home-grown armed groups or militias intent on defending their neighborhoods against the crackdown."
While there have been defections, he said, "there seems to have been far more outright desertions than shifts of forces to the FSA."
As for Syrian military leaders, they back the regime because of fear of reprisals if al-Assad's rule ends and their "deep aversion to prolonged instability." But the prospect of a split in the military could be a good sign for the resistance forces.
"While the Syrian military needed time to absorb the shock of mounting internal opposition, it now appears to be on the offensive and it is likely to remain critical to the survival of the Assad regime. Should it experience real divisions in the future, the FSA may be able to take advantage," Nerguizian said.

Hmmmm, wonder what the Russkies will think about this.....

China says Syrian opposition delegation has visited

First contact reported by China in the wake of escalating violence in Syria and Beijing's veto of the UN resolution

Reuters in Beijing
Thursday 9 February 2012 08.47 GMT

Beijing has rejected criticism of its veto of the resolution. Photograph: David Gray/Reuters



China's foreign ministry has said a Syrian opposition delegation visited the country this week and met a deputy foreign minister, Zhai Jun.
It was the first contact reported by China in the wake of escalating violence in Syria and Beijing's veto in the UN of a draft resolution on the country.
China joined Russia at the weekend to veto the resolution in the security council that would have backed an Arab plan urging Bashar al-Assad to step down after months of worsening bloodshed. The veto has been heavily condemned by western governments.
"China is willing to maintain contacts and communication with relevant Syrian opposition groups," the ministry spokesman Liu Weimin told a daily news briefing.
Beijing has rejected criticism of its veto of the resolution, insisting it is committed to the long-term interests of the Syrian people.
Earlier this week, the Chinese government said it was considering sending an envoy to the Middle East to discuss the crisis in Syria.

^ And might explain this interesting piece from the People's Daily....

China cannot stay out of Syrian chaos
(Global Times)
09:29, February 09, 2012

The West has sped up efforts against Syria after the double veto by China and Russia over the UN Security Council resolution. Russia has sent its envoy to the country. China cannot sit idly by as the situation moves away from its intentions.

Even it is not able to dictate the direction of the Syrian situation, China can at least cast its influence in three aspects.

It can facilitate communication between the Assad government and the opposition. The vetoes by China and Russia have deprived the West of a convenient excuse to launch direct military action, meaning the Syrian opposition will not receive overall support as given to the NTC in Benghazi during the Libyan civil war.

The tenacity of the Assad regime, including its military strength, differs from Gaddafi's, making it harder for the opposition to seize power. These lay out the possibility of channeling dialogue between the Assad regime and the opposition. China and Russia should help the country reform and avoid revolution. It is worth a try.

Second, China should persuade the Arab League, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Egypt to mitigate their attitude toward the Assad government. Within the Arab League, the consensus toward Syria is weak. Plus, the antipathy toward Assad is offset by the bloc being on alert to any external interference in an Arab country.

The Western alliance also has disagreements. Over the Libyan issue for example, Germany did not fully agree with the UK and France. China can stress diplomacy with Germany and France on the Syrian situation, urging them to change their stance.

Though China has a less direct stake in Syria than Russia, the collapse of Syria will result in the West further controlling the Middle East, and Iran taking direct strategic pressure from the West. If war broke out in Iran, China would have to rely more on Russia for energy, bringing new uncertainty to the Sino-Russian strategic partnership.

China needs to put in more efforts to delay the Western advance in the Middle East. For now, it is wise to divert more efforts to Syria and Iran. China can leverage its good relationship with Arab League countries, and its large capital and market to deepen its influence in the region.

The political landscape in the Middle East is becoming unfavorable to China. Doing nothing is not an option. The Chinese Embassy in Libya has been hit by stones from protesters but how bad can the situation get? Active diplomacy may have its consequences, but these would be affordable.

This is not sarcasm. This is a serious observation.

In none of these conflicts/wars/revolutions the editorials and discussions mention the most central, important issue. Religion.

Now some of us may scoff at religion, but for these people it is THE most important factor in their lives. It is real. To the point where those insulting their prophet will likely be killed.

When I watch coverage of Homs for instance, on TV, and I hear the exclamations of Allah Akhbar, a thought crosses my mind.

If these people are willing to kill for their belief, live by it to the point that the world is filled with conflict, then surely someone, somewhere, should have the balls to call them on this sacred belief, and ask why they are screaming for the infidel's help when they have a pretty akhbar Allah.

Once they got the help, and they are back to 'normal', their Allah/Mohammed crap will start up again, unless at some stage their noses are rubbed in it a bit.

If you want to be so loud and aggressive about your beliefs, stand by them at all times or acknowledge you really don't believe at all. Take your pick now. Allah or the infidel.


At first I abhorred the Russian/Chinese stand. On second thoughts I side with them.

Originally Posted by FlyFree

This is not sarcasm. This is a serious observation.

In none of these conflicts/wars/revolutions the editorials and discussions mention the most central, important issue. Religion.

Now some of us may scoff at religion, but for these people it is THE most important factor in their lives. It is real. To the point where those insulting their prophet will likely be killed.

When I watch coverage of Homs for instance, on TV, and I hear the exclamations of Allah Akhbar, a thought crosses my mind.

If these people are willing to kill for their belief, live by it to the point that the world is filled with conflict, then surely someone, somewhere, should have the balls to call them on this sacred belief, and ask why they are screaming for the infidel's help when they have a pretty akhbar Allah.

Once they got the help, and they are back to 'normal', their Allah/Mohammed crap will start up again, unless at some stage their noses are rubbed in it a bit.

If you want to be so loud and aggressive about your beliefs, stand by them at all times or acknowledge you really don't believe at all. Take your pick now. Allah or the infidel.

Who says they don't "stand by them at all times"? They are Sunnis in a predominantly Muslim country, and they have mosques.

And they are being butchered by what is probaby an atheist ophthalmologist and his cronies. Although they are Shi'a I doubt Assad is a five prayers a day man.

They are screaming for 'the outside world's ' help, read the west. Where's Allah?

Originally Posted by FlyFree

They are screaming for 'the outside world's ' help, read the west. Where's Allah?

As far as I now, Allah doesn't provide anti-tank missiles and a variety of other military hardware.

Then again I haven't read the Quran from cover to cover.

I reiterate. Religion, being THE most important issue in these peoples lives, CANNOT always be conveniently dropped in the worst times of their lives. It HAS to be part of the conversation.

Originally Posted by FlyFree

I reiterate. Religion, being THE most important issue in these peoples lives, CANNOT always be conveniently dropped in the worst times of their lives. It HAS to be part of the conversation.

Sorry, I'm not quite with you, at what point are they "dropping" it?

They are basically screaming "Allah Protect Us" while they are being bombed and shot at.

Now I'm no religious man, but I'm fairly certain more than a few people have said "God help us" in their time.

It is never part of the conversation. UN resolutions are discussed. No fly zones. Protected zones. Military action. Observers. Humanitarian help. Supply of arms.

Where's the discussion on how we can help by prayer. Where's the discussion on why Allah seems to be disinterested. Remember, these are considered very real issues.

And if they aren't, where's the inquiry as to why not.

Allah doesn't supply anti-tank missiles and a variety of other military hardware by the looks of it. I agree. he doesn't seem to be supplying much of anything.

Why not. Make a choice. Else STFU in future, should be the message.



If they don't and gonna carry on the same way in future, fuk em. Go Russia/China.

Originally Posted by FlyFree

It is never part of the conversation. UN resolutions are discussed. No fly zones. Protected zones. Military action. Observers. Humanitarian help. Supply of arms.

Where's the discussion on how we can help by prayer. Where's the discussion on why Allah seems to be disinterested. Remember, these are considered very real issues.

And if they aren't, where's the inquiry as to why not.

Allah doesn't supply anti-tank missiles and a variety of other military hardware by the looks of it. I agree. he doesn't seem to be supplying much of anything.

Why not. Make a choice. Else STFU in future, should be the message.



If they don't and gonna carry on the same way in future, fuk em. Go Russia/China.

I would suggest that any theological discussions on it are probably taking place in Arabic, which is why you don't see them.

Perhaps start by taking OhOh's FSA video and putting the comments into Google Translate to see what you get, although don't expect it to be more than 60-70% accurate.

This article sums up the desperate fragmentation of the "military" part of the Syrian opposition.

What the US needs to know about the Syrian rebels


By Michael Weiss World Last updated: February 9th, 2012
12 Comments Comment on this article

The Syrian rebellion is more complex than the Western media suggests

The Middle East is an Alice-in-Wonderland of surreality. Up is down, black is white, and just when you think you’ve got everything figured out, it turns out you’re more confused than ever. An acknowledgement of this simple truth ought to accompany every article or dispatch filed in the West about the Syrian revolution.
The Obama administration, which had previously outsourced the Syrian crisis to Turkey and the Arab League, now finds itself in the awkward position of not knowing very much about what the hell is going on in Syria. Sanctions coupled with an avowed policy of regime change have accompanied presidential rhetoric that amounts to “Down with this sort of thing”.
Now, evidently, General James Mattis, head of US Central Command, is mulling a “military option”, although even the Pentagon officials leaking this information are quick to add that no such option is yet being seriously entertained. “Before we start talking about military options, we very much want to ensure that we have exhausted all the political, economic and diplomatic means at our disposal,” Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the UN, told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer the other day, stretching this White House's definition of exhaustion yet again. Meanwhile, from the interventionist quarter of Congress, there is a minor policy push to arm the Syrian rebels. Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman have advocated as much – and for the right reasons, I might add.
Yet here is something I’d very much like the US government to know before it cocks up another rescue mission in the Middle East. The much-cited Free Syrian Army (FSA), headed by military defector Col Riyad al-Asaad, is not the only insurgent game in town; in fact, it’s not even the most prominent. Al-Asaad and his cohort have been hosted in Turkey for months and are running what could be described as a media project designed to disseminate press information that gives the appearance of a coordinated rebel campaign with a clear chain of command. Activists joke that it’s more like a “Facebook Syrian Army”, because al-Asaad is no more capable of planning or ordering an operation against the regime than I am of solving Greece’s sovereign debt problems.
Indeed, a high degree of the anti-regime guerrilla warfare is being waged by independent brigades who license the credit for their high-profile attacks to the FSA. (Some of them even call themselves FSA members when interviewed by journalists.) The brigades are typically named for someone out of Arab or Islamic history or for a recent victim of the regime’s repression; so, for instance, there’s a Saladine Brigade and a Hamza al-Khatib Brigade, named for the 13-year-old boy the Syrian security forces kidnapped, tortured and mutilated last year. All have local field commanders who take their own military decisions but coordinate with each other. Many are openly hostile to the FSA, including the chaps who've been bringing the fight to the Republican Guard in the Damascus suburbs in the last several weeks.
These rebels claim a deep frustration at what they view as a failure by more recognised oppositionists to make common cause and put the revolution ahead of their own egos or agendas. They say that the FSA and the scandal-wracked Syrian National Council risk becoming irrelevant.
More important for the Pentagon's purposes is that many of these guerrillas are not army defectors but armed civilians. I mentioned this in previous blog posts, but proof is now beginning to filter into the Western news. Watch this series of dispatches from CBS News’ Clarissa Ward, broadcast from an unnamed location in northern Syria. She has been hosted by a new umbrella rebel organisation called the Syrian Liberation Army (SLA). As Wards puts it: “These men are not former soldiers, they do not have military experience. Many of them are not even physically fit, they are farmers and they are workers. They have enormous amounts of courage and enormous amounts of spirit.”
Armed with Kalashnikovs, a few RPGs and homemade bombs, the SLA has set up roadblocks and checkpoints in keys areas in the north, all on a “shoestring.” A major operation they'd planned was scotched due to fear that the Syrian Air Force would bomb the area with fighter planes and helicopter gunships, a contingency they’re relying on the "international community" to prevent.
Washington’s stated top priority at the moment is to form a “Friends of Syria” contact group to build international consensus on how to proceed. That’s all well and good but what’s more urgently needed is a “Friends in Syria” initiative to put an end to the atomisation and factionalism of the anti-Assad forces. It's time to take over from Ankara and Cairo. And a major incentive for establishing a safe zone inside Syria, if and when this does come to pass, is that it will put all the political and military players into the same place in a land they will have to liberate together. Libyans had Benghazi; the Syrians require their own. The days of shuttling from foreign ministries and overseas conferences, or bickering with each other in Turkish compounds, should now be at an end.

Poxy fucking link

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

(1) The weapons are coming from the Arabs, not Israel.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The old Russian arms trade will be doing very well out of Syria right now.

US and EU, 1 and 2 in the list of arms trading.

To Syria? Stick to the topic please.

The Arabs and NATO are supplying arms to the terrorists.

The Arabs are sending arms sold to them by the US, EU.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Moscow and Beijing in the same sentence as truth, democracy and respect for sovereignty. You couldn't fucking make it up!

Whereas we all know of the crusader coalition's attitude to truth and democracy don't we?