Thread: Masons Unite

Originally Posted by ENT

Are you a Freemason too?

No. But one day I will be the widow's son!

Originally Posted by ENT

Birds of a feather do indeed flock together within the protective fold of Freemasonry as demonstrated by the level of dishonesty, homosexuality, pedophilia and corruption exhibited by the British aristocracy, British MPs, the British police force and British civil service.

A good background of non-egalitarian hierarchic middle class conformity, public school bullying and snivelling sycophancy helps a lot too.

Agreed a good background and good schooling do help but I do not think that has any bearing on being asked to join. You just need to be of good character. The Chief Constable who joined when he was just a Constable for example and agreed I am not sure about Catholicism as they have their own group The Knight's of Columbus.

If you have / had the right stuff and knew someone already there...

As for protection. Sure they won't do anything that would hurt or harm a fellow member but they also abide by the laws of the land. They are not cowboys or criminals?

Maybe you should start another thread about Livery Companies of the City of London or maybe the Shriners?

I recently read Sikunder Burnes by Craig Murray and it had some interesting stuff about masons and the East India Company and the knights templar

Robbie Burns was a realation to Alexander and Robbie was also a scottish mason - and there are indications that Alexanders younger brother was the grand mufti

Robert Bruce founded the Masonic Order of Heredom de Kilwinning, after the Battle of Bannockburn, reserving to himself and his successors on the Throne of Scotland, the office and title of Grand Master.

Scottish tradition has, moreover, always been in favour of this origin […] there are even in our own days at Edinburgh, a few individuals claiming to be the representatives of the Royal Order established by Bruce, which […] still flourishes in France, where it was established by Charter from Scotland, and even by the Pretender himself, in the course of last century, and is now conferred as the highest and most distinguished grade of Masonry, sanctioned by the Grand Orient, under the title of the Rose Croix de Heredom de Kilwinning […]
the Prince Cambaceres, Arch-chancellor of the Empire, presided over it as Provincial Grand Master (the office of supreme head being inherent in the Crown of Scotland) for many years; and that he was succeeded in his dignity […] by the head of the illustrious family of Choiseul.1
The allegedly historical passages above were written by James Burnes, for private distribution to senior freemasons, while on sick leave in Edinburgh in 1837. A second edition was printed for public sale in 1840. It was this book that first popularised the notion of the survival of the Knights Templar in Scottish freemasonry and the Templar properties in the Lothians. He would have been surprised to know that these tales would generate an entire publishing and tourist industry six generations later. The alleged Templar derivation of freemasonry and Franco-Scottish aristocratic bloodlines are intrinsic to both The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail and The Da Vinci Code, two of the highest selling books in history.
James added in a footnote that he had actually seen the charter and documents of the Templars in Paris, by permission of the Grand Master and of Admiral Sir Sydney Smith, a naval hero who James names as a leading British Knight Templar. He gives Sydney Smith’s Templar commission in his book’s appendices.

James added in a footnote that he had actually seen the charter and documents of the Templars in Paris, by permission of the Grand Master and of Admiral Sir Sydney Smith, a naval hero who James names as a leading British Knight Templar. He gives Sydney Smith’s Templar commission in his book’s appendices.
James had indeed been in Paris on his way back from India; he had, unusually for a Company officer, come overland through Europe, calling at Malta, Sicily, Naples, Rome, Florence, Venice, Geneva and Paris. All these locations bar Florence feature in his History of the Knights Templar. In Edinburgh he had ‘been encouraged to undertake the work by offers of valuable documents in the possession of old and noble families’.2 These included the Sinclairs and the Ramsays.
James had been presented at Court to William IV by the Earl of Dalhousie, and the King had created him a Knight of the Royal Order of the Guelphs of Hanover. This Order had been founded in 1815 by the Prince Regent;3 it was used to honour his personal friends. No such honour had been given to Alexander when he met the King, yet Alexander was a great deal more famous than James. Indeed, why should the King be meeting James, an obscure doctor, at all?
James also was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society and given an honorary LLD from Glasgow University.4
There is a genuine mystery here, and it is not whether the Templars hid anything in Rosslyn Chapel. The question is why was James treated as so important? It was not professional attainment. He was Surgeon to the Residency of Cutch. Within the EIC, surgeons were the most junior of British officers, which rankled with them greatly.5 James’ successful foray into the world of diplomacy had been eight years previously and caused no great stir; he had written slim books on Sind and Cutch, self-published.
Before returning to India, James received a farewell banquet in Edinburgh, which gives the key. He ‘received the present of a magnificent silver vase, bearing […] a masonic inscription’.6 Lord Ramsay, chairing the dinner, was the ‘Grand Master of England’.7 Also at the top table was Lord Sinclair, the owner of Rosslyn Chapel. Yet extraordinarily, James had only become a freemason in August 1834, at that ceremony at St Peter’s Lodge, Montrose.8
It is all a little startling. In a listing of the members of the Order of St John of Jerusalem, dated 1869, we find the following listed under ‘deceased members’:
James Burnes, Baron of the Duchy of Saxe-Coburg Gotha; Knight of the Royal Hanoverian Guelphic Order; Grand Précepteur de l’Ordre Souverain Du Temple; LLD, MD, FRS, Late Physician General of the Bombay Army9
All of which except ‘Grand Précepteur de l’Ordre Souverain Du Temple’ is verifiable.10 There is good reason to believe the last is also true. In his book on the Templars, James writes of their links to the Order of St John of Jerusalem. This was a broadly open body, engaged in dining and charitable work, whereas the Knights Templar were a secret, hermetic society. But the more open Order is easy to trace; here is a roll of one of their meetings:
On Thursday 24 June a Chapter General of the British Langue of the Sovereign and Illustrious Order of St John of Jerusalem took place at the Gate House of Clerkenwell priory.
The Grand Prior, Sir Charles M Lamb, presiding, followed by dinner in the Hall of the Gate House.
The Chair was again filled by Preceptor Burnes, supported, on the right and left by Count Fane De Salis and Vice-Admiral Watts, C.B.; the Grand Secretary acted as croupier, supported by Sir Edward Hoare, Bart., and George H Ryland Esq, Lieut.-Col of the Militia of Canada, and Registrar of the District of Montreal.11
A list of office bearers from two years later, in 1860:12 Grand Prior of England, Vice Admiral Sir A D Arbuthnott; Bailiff of Aquila, the Duke of Manchester; Chief Preceptor of Scotland, J. Burnes KHFRS; Secretary General, Maj Gen J. Ramsay. Preceptor is also James’ quoted Templar rank. In both freemasonry and the Knights of St John, James is coupled with the Ramsay family. The 1869 full membership list of the Order of St John of Jerusalem includes princes, dukes, marquesses, earls and barons. But the family name which occurs most often is Burnes, with nine members. The second is Ramsay, with six.
According to an obituary of James, his house in Notting Hill was:
the resort of the society of the most learned and distinguished men of the day. He also and for many years took part in the resuscitation of the English Langue (or national branch) of the illustrious and Sovereign Order of St John of Jerusalem […]13
There appears to have been a very strong coincidence in both membership and office bearers of the Knights of St John and the Knights Templar. One may be perceived as the public face of the other.
James had left Bhuj in October 1833 through ill health, the malaria or ‘intermittent fever’ he had reported as endemic. In February 1834 he set off on his European tour, and did not return to India until December 1837. It was in 1836, in the midst of this extended absence from India, that he was appointed by the Masonic Grand Lodge of Scotland in Edinburgh as Provincial Grand Master for Bombay and its Dependencies.

and some information that could explain smeggles as the intrepid explorer he is

Their round included the weekly meetings of the Raleigh Club, founded as an alternative to the Travellers for those at the cutting edge of exploration rather than administration. The Raleigh met in St James’s St, in a pub owned by the Willis family of the famous Assembly Rooms. The Thatched House

eerie

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by ENT

“Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? John 10:34.

The reference Jesus makes in John is to Psalm 82, quoted below,
...its meaning is that those of use in a position of power are required to help the less fortunate, as God helps us.

So what's your problem?

Elohim here is a metaphor for the authorities and not literally "gods".

Your interpretation. Elohim can mean that and/or gods, in fact god and authority are one and the same in that religious hierarchy, as in god fathering Jesus, just your denominational choice of what you wish to believe in, a moral convenience.

The psalm enjoins all of us to take care of the poor, the lost, the bereft. Refugees, for example.

Again, what's your problem?

Constantine expounded on this verse at the Council of Nicea as a reminder to the Bishops gathered there that their duty was to the good of others and not themselves.

That was his politically motivated interpretation, a stratagem for reining in independent Xtian sects at the time and banishing others, along with many other 'gospels'.

Considering your vicious and bigoted attitude towards the afflicted and needy your hypocrisy in using this verse stinks.

You're dreaming. Quote where I show a "vicious and bigoted attitude' to the afflicted....other than you, of course.

I suppose, however, that as usual you have no idea of what it actually means and just misinterpret it to fit it in with your own childish outlook.

I'm well aware of its meaning.

Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

And?