What is this? Civet?

**ootai** · 24-02-2013, 01:43 PM

When I was home last time just before Christmas my wife showed me these pictures. I have done a bit of research and believe it is a Civet. And I know that they are all through Asia as I work in Indonesia and have bought soem Luwak coffee which is made from beans shat out by civets.
What I was wondering is how common are they in rural Thailand, we live roughly half way between Korat and Buriram and while there are patches of forest around apparently my brother in law caught this one in our sugar cane. I was relaibly informed that they are "aroi mak mak" as you would expect for anything that walks in Thailand. Apparently they were more abundant than they are now so hence my question.
Thanks

**Necron99** · 24-02-2013, 01:50 PM

is it dead? Or being tamed?

**Thetyim** · 24-02-2013, 01:53 PM

Yeah, it's a civet.
I've only seen two in Thailand.
One that used to visit our garden regularly and one in a market in Fang

**Davis Knowlton** · 24-02-2013, 01:54 PM

He's not dead, he's only resting.

**Norton** · 24-02-2013, 01:58 PM

**beerlaodrinker** · 24-02-2013, 02:15 PM

They were on the menu in a vietnamese restaurant i was in, in vientiane lately , never seen any in the wild though that comes as no surprise

**toddaniels** · 25-02-2013, 08:56 AM

Well, if that civet ain't dead it's the most "relaxed" one I've ever seen!!!

Those would also be some pretty hard up Thais to eat "civet" (called either a ชะมด or a อีเห็น depending on the species). The one "resting" in your example is a ชะมด. Those things have a definite smell which permeates the fur and the meat due to a scent gland near the tail. I doubt it's first on the list of things a Thai looks for when goin' out into the jungle to rustle up dinner. I'd bet almost any Thai would rather eat a dog than a civet.

The Hill Tribe coffee company Doi Chang (in Thai กาแฟดอยช้าง Elephant Mountain Coffee) sells their "civet coffee" for crazy high prices. They don't keep the civets in cages, but collect the beans from the droppings of it in the wild when they're out harvesting their beans.

Most Thai coffee companies which sell civet coffee here do it by wild trapping a bunch of them. They keep them in cages mixing in the coffee beans with the food. It's way easier to collect the beans out of the droppings that way. Sadly, because they mostly catch them with wire snares, a lot of the ones I've seen at coffee plantations are missing a paw from being trapped. They don't live all that long seeing as the plantations give them way more beans than real food in an effort to "maximize production". There are more than a few coffee plantations up north which have civets caged this way. As I said, civets and civet droppings have a pretty distinctive smell. Once you've smelt it, you'll never forget it. Even if the coffee plantation you tour won't show you the civets, you can sure smell if they have 'em around...

Up country I've seen the babies for sale in live markets. I'd imagine if you got one young enough it'd be like keeping a red fox or raccoon (both which aren't all that bad of pets until they get older). Still never saw a "tame one", and never saw it on a menu here either. FWIW I've been to more "one buffalo villages" here in this country than I care to count, where the menu was what ever got killed the day before and still I've never seen it.

**beazalbob69** · 25-02-2013, 09:07 AM

Dont look relaxed to me looks kind of stiff riga stiff like. Beautiful animal never the less.

**ootai** · 25-02-2013, 02:50 PM

Thanks to all those that replied.
Yes it is well trained, or scared stiff, I think it would hold that position for a long long time but not do much else.
I never actually got to see the "specimen" only the pictures I posted here. I was told by those in the family that it was good to eat but that they didn't get many these days. I was just amazed that anything could live long enough to grow that big.
toddaniels thanks for your more comprehensive post, I did read that people used to keep them in cages with a pole in the middle so when they rubbed their scent gland on the pole it would deposit a secretion which was then harvested by scraping it off the pole. This secretion was used in perfumes and was/is very expensive. However like most things they have developed an artifical substitute.

As for what Thai's ( the ones I know) prefer to eat I don't think it matters as I've seen them eat rats, frogs, snails, something that I would describe as a cockroach, ants eggs and so on.
When my wife first came to Australia we were living in central NSW and her comment about the abundant wildlife was "if there were this many animals running around back home no one would have to go hungry" my response was, "at least not until after they had all beenl eaten."

Hopefully I will get to see a live one sometime.

**Rural Surin** · 25-02-2013, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

He's not dead, he's only resting.

If one can domesticate them, they are wonderful "watch cats"....

**Cujo** · 25-02-2013, 10:11 PM

The eating of these in China is what the SARs epidemic is blamed on.

The Origin of SARS Epidemics Found in Civet Cat Meat Consumption in Southern China

The severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) is provoked by a coronavirus and emerged in southern Chinese province of Guangdong (Canton) in November 2002, spreading globally till stopped in July 2003, after having infected 8,096 people and killed 774. Most victims were from China, Canada, Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam. The epidemic was stopped by international efforts, including quarantines on victims, health checks on travelers and distributions of facemasks.

A team of researchers from China and Hong Kong has found a genetic link between SARS in civet cats and humans, thus the disease seems to have been transmitted across species. "Our research has shown that the SARS coronavirus found in human victims is the same

as the SARS coronavirus found in civet cats," said Wang Ming, from Guangzhou Centre for Disease Control and Prevention.

The World Health Organization (WHO) asked for caution in making a definitive link to the origin of SARS virus in civet cats. "What it (the research) shows is that the SARS coronavirus has been found in some civet cats, but we don't know how many civet cats, or whether it can be transmitted to humans," said WHO's China spokeswoman, Joanna Brent.

That evidence prompted Guangdong authorities to cull thousands of civet cats and other wild animals in January 2004 and permanently ban their trade and human consumption. The researchers found that human and cat viruses had the same genetic profile after testing six SARS-carrying civet cats from a restaurant in early 2004, where a female employed had been found infected with SARS virus. WHO experts also discovered evidence of the virus in cages in a restaurant where a SARS patient ate civet meat. "This discovery proves that civet cats are capable of spreading the SARS virus to human beings," said Wang.

The virus quickly developed the capacity to pass from human to human. Civet cats had been a prime suspect of the origin of the human form of the virus, but without firm proofs, other animals, too, have been suspected, for example bats. Civet cats, even if it looks for some like a raccoon, are in fact related to the mongooses and, by far, to real cats (but it's not a feline).

Sadly, Chinese people have a taste for a large array of wild animals, fact that threatens a lot the biodiversity but also exposes people to zoonoses (disease transmitted from animals to humans), and the civet cat is considered a delicacy in Southern China. In fact, in rural China, the animals are still being sold in markets.

**DrAndy** · 08-06-2013, 11:28 PM

OK so what is this?

Rabadan.....

**palexxxx** · 08-06-2013, 11:33 PM

Looks like a nocturnal possum like creature.

**DrAndy** · 08-06-2013, 11:40 PM

Possums are Possum, not like Possums

It does look nocturnal though

**harrybarracuda** · 09-06-2013, 12:39 AM

A Lemur of some kind?

**harrybarracuda** · 09-06-2013, 01:22 AM

^ Or as they refer to it in China (probably), a snack.

**toddaniels** · 09-06-2013, 11:00 AM

Even a cursory look at the link the images came from says it's a "mouse lemur", and a quick Google of the term shows plenty of pics of 'em. It would appear there are about 21 or so subspecies of 'em, although almost all show the same pix.

I have only seen them for sale at JJ Market (Jatujak) here in Bangkok a couple of times back where the sell the animals. A while back there were some small ones in a cage which had a sign written in English "Limer-not indanger spices". Face it these people will hawk anything if it makes them a buck, and very little thought is put into conservation or stopping trade of "in danger spices".

I do know lemur in Thai is spelled like ลีเมอร์. I couldn't find it searching in Thai though, sorry

They're like Sugar Gliders (which have their front teeth snipped off so they don't bite), the hedgehogs (mostly doomed to a slow death due to improper care) and those Slow Lorises (which are plentiful around touristy places where clueless people get their picture taken with 'em).

**English Noodles** · 09-06-2013, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Koojo

The eating of these in China is what the SARs epidemic is blamed on.

The Origin of SARS Epidemics Found in Civet Cat Meat Consumption in Southern China

The severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) is provoked by a coronavirus and emerged in southern Chinese province of Guangdong (Canton) in November 2002, spreading globally till stopped in July 2003, after having infected 8,096 people and killed 774. Most victims were from China, Canada, Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam. The epidemic was stopped by international efforts, including quarantines on victims, health checks on travelers and distributions of facemasks.

A team of researchers from China and Hong Kong has found a genetic link between SARS in civet cats and humans, thus the disease seems to have been transmitted across species. "Our research has shown that the SARS coronavirus found in human victims is the same

as the SARS coronavirus found in civet cats," said Wang Ming, from Guangzhou Centre for Disease Control and Prevention.

The World Health Organization (WHO) asked for caution in making a definitive link to the origin of SARS virus in civet cats. "What it (the research) shows is that the SARS coronavirus has been found in some civet cats, but we don't know how many civet cats, or whether it can be transmitted to humans," said WHO's China spokeswoman, Joanna Brent.

That evidence prompted Guangdong authorities to cull thousands of civet cats and other wild animals in January 2004 and permanently ban their trade and human consumption. The researchers found that human and cat viruses had the same genetic profile after testing six SARS-carrying civet cats from a restaurant in early 2004, where a female employed had been found infected with SARS virus. WHO experts also discovered evidence of the virus in cages in a restaurant where a SARS patient ate civet meat. "This discovery proves that civet cats are capable of spreading the SARS virus to human beings," said Wang.

The virus quickly developed the capacity to pass from human to human. Civet cats had been a prime suspect of the origin of the human form of the virus, but without firm proofs, other animals, too, have been suspected, for example bats. Civet cats, even if it looks for some like a raccoon, are in fact related to the mongooses and, by far, to real cats (but it's not a feline).

Sadly, Chinese people have a taste for a large array of wild animals, fact that threatens a lot the biodiversity but also exposes people to zoonoses (disease transmitted from animals to humans), and the civet cat is considered a delicacy in Southern China. In fact, in rural China, the animals are still being sold in markets.

The USDA has since claimed that to be false, and says it was actually fruit bats.

As for the OP, fucking shame to have killed it.

**ootai** · 11-06-2013, 05:15 PM

As for the OP, fucking shame to have killed it.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more with your statement. Which is why i took the trouble to post the question about it on here. I had never seen one before, dead or alive, and was wondering how common (or not) they really are. If they were rare I would have actually tried to find out where he caught it so i could try and do something to help keep them around. My wife only told me that that her brother was the only one she knew who could catch them in our area and that he had caught 3 in the not too distant past.

As usual all I got from other members of my family was "aroi aroi".

I love Thais and Thailand but sometimes I am still amazed, maybe that's why they call it amazing Thailand.

**pescator** · 11-06-2013, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by ootai

As for what Thai's ( the ones I know) prefer to eat I don't think it matters as I've seen them eat rats, frogs, snails, something that I would describe as a cockroach, ants eggs and so on.
.

It is probably the giant water bug, much liked by many thais. Maeng daa.

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