Famous last Qantas words in Bangkok: 'Nothing to worry about'

One thing I will say is that when Walsh was being tough, he refused his bonuses (approx. half of his earnings) three years in a row, including the first year when BA achieved a record margin of 10% (although his reason for doing so that first year was the T5 fuck up).

But even when the airline was losing money he never once tried to cut cabin crew pay, only reduce the manpower on the planes by one.

The union, of course, kept fabricating personal financial losses despite the fact the courts in almost every case ruled BA's actions to be legal and reasonable.

So I would say I agree that it would have been prudent for Mr. Joyce to defer payment of his bonus until he's actually achieved tangible results (and based on yesterday's decision I think he may well have made a good start).

Whatever else may be wrong their business and first class "hard product" is inferior to competitors'. It's these seats that earn the money, yet their 747s still have ski slope angled beds. Even pygmy contortionists struggle to get a good night's sleep on QY long haul business class.

Qantas Airways First Class and Business Class seat reviews | SKYTRAX

A few interesting items on the news tonight:

Joyce goes on radio this morning and states:
1) that the Government was aware there was a strategy for the grounding.
Tony Albanese, The Min. for Transport later today stands up in parliment and states at no time was this implied or stated .....??

2) he did not recieved a pay increase!!
WTF!!

Seems competence in lying might be a part of his job description.

QF employee ... "we are trying to negotiate a 2.5% pay increase with a person who just got 71%. The truth is he's had long term psychcological problems. He wanted to be a pilot but his feet cannot reach the pedals"

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Originally Posted by Wally Dorian Raffles

Last time I flew with them (over 5 years ago), i was constantly bumped by the overweight, bitter old pooves and hags each time they squeezed down the isles - i asked them to be careful, and not only did they pull attitude on me, they made sure they bumped me everytime they passed me!

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only because you look like a cnut

Share holders in Quaint Ass....

1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 shares 22.72%
2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91%
3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26%
4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17%
Bankers, bloody bankers. They stuffed up the US home market, whilst lending funds to countries that couldn't repay leading to the European sovereign debt crisis. How much more of the world's business do they need to stuff up before they get reined in. Join the "Occupy Wall St" movement. https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2011/10/4031.jpg

My understanding is that a nominee account is one where the named party holds it on behalf of others which could be individuals, pension funds etc. So although you see the names of banks it is not they who vote or have the economic benefit of holding the shares.

I agree greedy Banks are partly to blame for lending to bad credit risks but surely greedy governments and individuals wanting to spend beyond their means and taking up the credit are equally to blame. It's all to easy to make a single party a scapegoat so everyone else can feel good but the truth is more complicated and the media is not interested in the truth but in keeping circulation and viewing figures up by telling a story that accomplishes that.

Lots of ignorance here.
The CEO has taken a haircut for the last two years because of poor profits.
He was given 96% support at the AGM and hence a green light to crack the unions.
Total expenses for the CEO and the board are 14.4 million as against a 3.5 billion dollar wage bill-get real withe the CEO cost bullshit.
Qantas pilots earn up to 500k,engineers 130k,baggage handlers 80k plus perks like cheap flights at 10% of cost.
Why cant the public get seats at 10% of cost-ask the unions that one.
The unions have heaps of money-let them buy qantas and show us how to pay people over the odds and still make a profit.

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Originally Posted by cambtek

Qantas pilots earn up to 500k

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BS !!!

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by cambtek

Qantas pilots earn up to 500k

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BS !!!

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Qantas long-haul pilots are set to take industrial action for the first time in two decades, demanding pay rises and perks, such as free flights.









A top 747 pilot can currently earn up to $500,000 a year, while an average pilot still brings home $350,000, according to a News Limited report.

Jetstar pilots, who can accumulate a $150,000 training debt to the airline, earn just $34,000 per year.

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THAT is what we call legacy staff who were rewarded, every time they sabre rattled, by weak senior management when times were good. Exactly what happened at BA when Lord King was in charge.

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QANTAS pilots are mounting a massive inflight campaign justifying strike action - and launching a shareholder revolt - amid revelations some are being paid more than $500,000 a year. Figures obtained by The Daily Telegraph revealed even the lowest paid second officers are on almost $100,000 a year while senior captains are paid up to $536,000. This is more than Prime Minister Julia Gillard's base salary of $366,000.
Last year some pilots received average pay rises of up to 17 per cent, or $45,000.
But pilots are pushing for further rises and job security guarantees. Their campaign includes scripting announcements for passengers on strike-affected planes and orchestrating a shareholder revolution at Qantas's annual general meeting in two weeks.
Meanwhile, the Transport Workers Union yesterday confirmed Qantas ground crews would participate in work stoppages at all major airports today, including Sydney, from 6-8am and 4-6pm.
Customs officers announced late yesterday they were striking at all major airports, with stoppages from 7-8am, 9-10am and 7-9pm in Sydney, further disrupting international travellers.
The pilots have established a website called qantas shareholders.com to direct disgruntled shareholders - including many pilots themselves - to vote against management plans for a new offshore operation.
At the same time they will deliver stronger and longer inflight announcements to passengers, including a special broadcast for those on delayed flights. It is the most serious action yet from pilots, who have so far resisted total work bans or strikes.
The Australian International Pilots Association said it had been "inundated" with calls from Qantas shareholders and the website would help them "vote against key motions in an effort to make management listen".
Leaked figures reveal even a second officer on an A330 gets almost $150,000 on average and starts on more than $110,000 following an average 17 per cent pay increase in the past year.
The highest paid captain of an A380 gets $536,000 - an increase of more than $40,000 on last year - and the average A380 captain's wage is $415,000.
AIPA president Captain Barry Jackson said Qantas pilots' pay was around the middle of international rates and far less than CEO Alan Joyce's $5 million pay packet.
"It takes decades of training and experience to become an A380 Captain, which is more than I can say about what's required to become a CEO," he said.
He also defended the announcements as "brief and positive".
"The aim is put pressure on management in a way that does not disrupt the travel plans of Qantas passengers," he said.

Read more: Revealed: Qantas pilots paid more than Prime Minister Julia Gillard | News.com.au

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As with BA, if they are not cutting anyone's pay and not sacking anyone, the only reason the union would be so pissed off and kick up a stink is because if QANTAS hire cheaper pilots (as they did from NZ with JetConnect), the union's revenue will drop considerably.

Analysts give this round to Qantas management, but the battle isn't over yet

November 1, 2011



Financial analysts have declared Qantas the victor over its unions. But there were plenty more shares bought yesterday than airline tickets.
The sharemarket simply followed the piece of financial string. Firstly it accounted for the $68 million cost of the industrial action as of last week, then added $30 million to $40 million to the downside as the result of grounding the airline for a day.
Add it up and shareholders absorbed the pain - of maybe a $120 million loss - as a necessary investment in the future. Even having accounted for this, there is an expectation earnings will rise by more than 10 per cent this year.
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They took the view an outcome to the industrial dispute arbitrated by Fair Work Australia might mean some increase in pay for staff but the pilots and maintenance engineers would not get the job security they were seeking.
Qantas was never going to agree to their demands because in the longer term it needs to restructure its workforce in a way that would push down pay levels.
It was a fundamental plank in the airline's grand plan to become more competitive with its overseas rivals and emerging local nemesis, Virgin.
The second part of the Qantas plan is to establish a full service but lower cost airline to operate in the pan-Asian market.
The thin end of the wedge for the pilots was having lower-paid colleagues from Jetstar and New Zealand flying under a QF banner.
On the face of it the analysts are right. Qantas's board has undertaken a heavy-handed strategy, which seems to have gone to plan. The timing has been questioned by the market (and passengers) but Qantas has applied sufficient pressure to get the outcome it sought.
The airline could have waited until the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting crowd had left and the spring carnival racegoers had cleared Melbourne, or at least until it had given Julia Gillard a heads-up.
But there were two issues, according to Qantas. First, fewer people fly at the weekend - so perversely, this was supposed to minimise the downside on the airline and the flying public.
The second reason to act sooner rather than later was that the business market was turning away and bookings were evaporating.
The intervention of Fair Work Australia is supposed to give the issue some certainty. Investors should now have a level of confidence that there is an end in sight to the industrial disputes.
However, what none can quantify is the effect this ugly industrial relations episode will have on staff and the loyalty of business travellers.
The wider public is not of particular concern to Qantas - mainly because people will come back when the disputes recede. They have done so before, even after fears safety standards were compromised.
But this time there is a far greater threat to Qantas - competition for the business traveller.
The rebirth of Virgin as a full service airline is already in full swing.
Thousands of Qantas frequent flyers have already taken the opportunity to match their status (platinum, gold, etc) with Virgin and thanks to the industrial action many will now have the need to give it a try.
The Virgin chief, John Borghetti, played it well over the past couple of days - no fare gouging, a flood of capacity and plenty of goodwill.
The emergence of Virgin as a true competitor is one factor that analysts will find more difficult to quantify. Virgin Australia lost almost $68 million in the 2011 financial year thanks in large part to foreign exchange hits, but even before the events of the past couple of months analysts were expecting a turnaround to a 2012 profit of $70 million.
Last year, Virgin's share of the high yield corporate and government market rose from 10 to 13 per cent. Borghetti's stated goal is to hit 20 per cent, which now looks conservative.
It is a fair bet analysts will go back to their models in the next few weeks and upgrade Virgin profit expectations. At the least, they will be looking for guidance from Borghetti when he appears at a gathering tomorrow.
The other big sleeper for Qantas is the response from its own staff.
This disenfranchised group can corrode its service business, which will cost Qantas dearly over time in a way that is impossible to quantify.
For months investment bankers have had a buy on Qantas. But institutions, while supporting management, were not prepared to buy into the stock until the industrial relations issues had been sorted out.
Instead the shares had been left to languish - trading at a multiple well below their international peers.
Share volumes yesterday suggest that some investors are willing to take a punt that the worst is over.
But the 4 per cent rebound in the share price is still not large enough to suggest shareholders are confident there is smooth sailing ahead.



Read more: Analysts give this round to Qantas management, but the battle isn't over yet

There is 21 days to go at it, then it all starts again.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Financial analysts have declared Qantas the victor over its unions

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I hope for qantas sake these arnt the same financial analysts who said the world economic situation was rosy, and the day after it all turned to shit.

Remember them, same ilk of capitalists that capitalised the profits, and socialised the debts.
Absolutely hilarious, and still giving each other these obnoxious payrises whilst at the same time sacking folk to compensate their own cock ups, unbelievable.

I havn't seen anywhere if all qantas staff are union members or if some arn't, but if there are some that arnt I bet they are well pleased at being denied their work by the managers.

Thing is most folk out there outside oz didnt have any idea about the ongoing dispute, all they see now is qantas unilaterally closing the shop, and causing people just like them all this inconvenience and problem and heartache.
They see a big greedy bully throwing his weight around, his weight supplemented by his big fatcat bankbalance, who's already taken things to the edge.

They wont chance qantas now because the dye is cast.

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Originally Posted by cambtek

Lots of ignorance here.
The CEO has taken a haircut for the last two years because of poor profits.
He was given 96% support at the AGM and hence a green light to crack the unions.
Total expenses for the CEO and the board are 14.4 million as against a 3.5 billion dollar wage bill-get real withe the CEO cost bullshit.
Qantas pilots earn up to 500k,engineers 130k,baggage handlers 80k plus perks like cheap flights at 10% of cost.
Why cant the public get seats at 10% of cost-ask the unions that one.
The unions have heaps of money-let them buy qantas and show us how to pay people over the odds and still make a profit.

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In accordance with the Airline Pilot Central Publication for 2011 a senior pilot with a minimum of 12 years experience makes 206 Australian dollars or $216 US per hour with Qantas. Based on a 40 hour week and 52 weeks per year that is 428,000 Australian or $450,000 US per year. A pilot also receives 140 Australian per day or $147 US per day per diem. Senior pilots with over 12 years with the airline and depending on their longevity can make anywhere from 500,000 to 750,000 Australian per year. Most general practitioner doctors and some specialist in the United States don't make anywhere near that type of income per year. No wonder Qantas and most other airlines worldwide are either broke or going broke.

^How many people can the doctor kill in a blink of his eye, how much is the doctors chair worth.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by cambtek

Qantas pilots earn up to 500k

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BS !!!

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Qantas long-haul pilots are set to take industrial action for the first time in two decades, demanding pay rises and perks, such as free flights.









A top 747 pilot can currently earn up to $500,000 a year, while an average pilot still brings home $350,000, according to a News Limited report.

Jetstar pilots, who can accumulate a $150,000 training debt to the airline, earn just $34,000 per year.

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THAT is what we call legacy staff who were rewarded, every time they sabre rattled, by weak senior management when times were good. Exactly what happened at BA when Lord King was in charge.

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The per diem allowance for flight attendants in Bangkok is circa 4500 baht. That's in addition to salary, flight hours, the ID90 tickets. How many Asian crews need $140 us a day to buy three meals in Bangkok?

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Originally Posted by Khun Custard

From what I saw on Australian network last night, the head of the unions stated that only 6 hours had been lost in the past 7 months due to stop work, industrial action.

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Union lies.

They lost 2.5 days just 2 weeks ago over strikes. These Union bosses must think the public are a bunch of dipshits to believe that.

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Originally Posted by Bettyboo

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Originally Posted by BKKBanger

It is tough on staff and those of us who have made those decisions know they are very hard to make. BUT NECESSARY FOR LONG TERM SURVIVAL OF THE COMPANY. Those who are not in the boardroom seem to think it is a cushy job with great pay and do not see the reality of the stress of decision making.

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Oh please...

Many of us have experience; your posts are ridiculous, with their cliches and presupposed superiority (while lacking depth, analysis, specific details in this case, etc)...

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I have read your posts and they suggest someone with far toooooooo much time on their hands.

The above post does not need depth, it is a comment.

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Originally Posted by Floridathunderstorm

Based on a 40 hour week and 52 weeks per year

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Thats a little misleading, given that a pilot that worked these hours would have difficulty keeping their licence. why don't work out how many hours a month they can work then do you calculation.

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Originally Posted by LooseBowels

There is 21 days to go at it, then it all starts again.

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No, there's 21 days and then an optional 21 extra days if both parties wish to continue.

After that there is binding arbitration that applies to both sides.

Any strike action over this matter after that applies will be unprotected and QANTAS will be allowed to sack strikers.

Now, seriously, having seen the numbers, have a guess how many QANTAS pilots are going to go on strike?

Fuck all, that's how many.

As for the rest of the staff, if they commit employment suicide in the current job market, then frankly they're obviously complete fucking idiots.

And using the BA reference again, the union did actually try to strike over something invented in order to continue and call it protected strike action over a new issue or two, but BA's lawyers were stood outside the court, injunction and law suits in hand, daring them to do it.

They knew they would lose instantly and all of their members who then went on strike would have been dismissed immediately. Hence their cave in.

Bottom line is, for some here it seems OK to ground flights and inconvenience customers - and damage the company - if you're a fucking union twat, but if a boss does it, he's the evil blackmailing bastard. I applaud Joyce for having the balls to force the Aussie government to intervene. The days when unions ruined entire industries with absurd demands should be long gone.

And I have nothing against properly run unions; corporate structures such as those in Germany show how they should work properly.

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Originally Posted by hazz

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Originally Posted by Floridathunderstorm

Based on a 40 hour week and 52 weeks per year

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Thats a little misleading, given that a pilot that worked these hours would have difficulty keeping their licence. why don't work out how many hours a month they can work then do you calculation.

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Misleading or not the Airline Central Publication gives the yearly salary that can be made by a pilot with over 12 years longevity as 500,000 to 750,000 Australian Dollars. You figure it out. I took the hourly figure of 206 AD directly from this publication's charts. They never indicated how many hours most pilots work per year. I just assumed the yearly salary was based upon the standard 40 hours per week. I am fully aware of the restrictions on the amount of hours a pilot can be in the cockpit. I worked in aviation for more than 15 years.

This spoof was actually done back in 2007 (when quaintas were starting to send jobs offshore). It's gone viral recently, and well done to the Chaser crew for being ahead of the curve, again-


Chaser QANTAS Ad - YouTube



Qantas' impeccable safety record (no fatalities in air crashes, ever) will surely not last.