NZ woman in Thailand food poisoning death

aluminum phosphide doesn't always smell like garlic. It can have no odor. (see Section 4, Precautionary Statements at http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/aginfo/...eevil-cide.pdf) Place some pellets, tablets or gas bags in a room and create a lethal zone. The tablets are 16.5 mm in diameter.


Second Girl Dies in Apparent Pesticide Poisoning in Utah
Thu, Feb 11, 2010
Pesticide Toxicty

As reported here an elsewhere in the national media (although not loudly enough) two days ago, a 4-year-old girl died of apparent pesticide poisoning after her parents hired a company to rid their lawn of voles. On Tuesday, the girl’s 15-month-old sister also passed away.
The environmental and health community is aghast that the EPA ever allowed the pesticide in this case — Fumitoxin, or aluminum phosphide — to be registered for home use in the first place. The product releases a toxic gas, phosphine, that according to the EPA is not allowed to be used within 15 feet of a home.
When the tablets or granules of the product are dropped into a vole or mole hole in the lawn, however, it is virtually impossible to predict where the tunnels might lead underground. It is quite possible, in fact, that a tunnel originating 15 feet or more from the home could lead directly into the structure — thereby releasing the gas directly into the living area, which is apparently what happened in the Utah case.

(Beyond Pesticides, February 11, 2010) Investigators are tying the deaths of 4-year and 15-month old sisters in Layton, Utah to a pesticide that was used to kill voles, a small, burrowing rodent, in their family’s front yard. The 4-year-old, Rebecca Toone, died Saturday and her sister Rachel died on Tuesday after the family was hospitalized with flu-like symptoms then discharged. The girls went back to the hospital when they fell ill again after returning home. The cause of the deaths has not yet been determined, according to the Utah Medical Examiner’s Office, and toxicology tests are expected to take up to eight weeks to complete. However, investigators say that chemical may have wafted into the family’s home after an exterminator dropped Fumitoxin, aluminum phosphide, pellets in burrow holes in the lawn on Friday.

Aluminum phosphide is known to be highly acutely toxic when ingested or inhaled. Symptoms of mild to moderate acute exposure include nausea, abdominal pain, tightness in chest, excitement, restlessness, agitation and chills. Symptoms of more severe exposure include, diarrhea, cyanosis, difficulty breathing, pulmonary edema, respiratory failure, tachycardia (rapid pulse) and hypotension (low blood pressure), dizziness and/or death.
Second Girl Dies in Apparent Pesticide Poisoning in Utah

"Aluminum phosphide is now perhaps the most common suicide agent in mid and northern India, where it is freely used as grain preservative and easily available over the counter. The toxic product, phosphine gas, is liberated on exposure to moisture. Phosphine is a systemic poison that causes severe congestion and evokes a significant inflammatory response. It is similar to cyanide, but acts slowly. It has been found to inhibit cytochrome oxidase, a respiratory chain enzyme. Systematic toxic effects appear 1–60 min after ingestion.Acute cardiovascular collapse is the most frequent mode of presentation, seen in 60%–100% of cases. There is a "dose-toxicity" and "dose-time to death" correlation. Even 1.5 g (1/2 tablet) can prove fatal within a few hours.
http://asianannals.ctsnetjournals.or.../full/16/4/298

Dead body of a female was brought for postmortem examination at the mortuary of New Civil Hospital, Surat. History revealed that her husband had given three tablets to her on the pretext that these tablets would help in the birth of a male child. She became ill soon after consuming the tablets and died within 12 hours of ingestion while under treatment. Autopsy revealed death from aluminium phosphide poisoning.
Indian Journals

Quote:

---

Event 3: the four women, three New Zealanders and one Thai, are most likely to have the same cause of illness, probably exposure to some toxic chemical, pesticide or gas, but the agent can not be identified.

---

And thus, neither can the culprits.

I don't know why you are making this so complicated.

i cant help but spare a thought for the parents of Sarah Carter.

this whole ordeal must really be intensifying their grief .

HB,
" Complicate.." Are you referring to my spiker theory?

So we agree it is poisoning, don't you think the disproportionate ratio of younger women is relevant?

Why isn't a prank spiker as likely? I just think pesticide in an accidental exposure would show traces in somebody, and the symptoms would be more neurological.

WDRaffles,
I think the Carter's will be suing the DTI. That will be their second lesson of Thai callousness in the art of My Pen Rai. Problem is they don't have a case.

GiT
Please tell us what your symptoms were? Severe, unrelentless vomiting with no diarrhea?

Quote:

---

don't you think the disproportionate ratio of younger women is relevant?

---

No I don't, the number of individuals is way too low to establish a pattern. I've stayed at the hotel a number of times, and I can tell you that it attracts groups of young women travellers far more than it does of young men. Used to be one of the attractions of staying there. :)

And then there is the elderly couple.

I'm sorry, but it's Occam's Razor. I'm satisfied that a number of rooms were sprayed at the same time, the incidents all occurred at that time, and once they cottoned onto it, they raided the sprayer, ripped the affected floor out and refurbished it, and covered it all up to avoid any loss of face to the owner.

HB ^
You're re probably right, it is more likely. I lean toward prank spiking poisoning because it happened to me.
At this point all we hope for is that yes maybe the word is out now on casual pesticide usage and this will prevent a future tragedy. And if it should occur again, the proper procedures have a better chance of being adhered to and the cause determined with some assurance.

I just want tourists to be informed of the risks here. It is more dangerous than the TAT lets on. One is led to believe western standards are the norm, when in fact it is the exception.
At least in Phuket some action by consulates is occurring.

In the case of the Doomtown Inn, its reputation is trashed everywhere, and certainly whenever I strolled past it last week (I was staying up the road), I never saw a single customer checking in, checking out or even loitering in the lobby or coffee shop.

(Perhaps they were all dead).

Harry, I go past that deathtrap quite often, it has been really quiet lately, hope people have wised up and avoid it like the plague. I tell everyone I know about the place.

So, have room prices come down?

:bananaman:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pol the Pot

So, have room prices come down?

:bananaman:

---

I'm sure you could get quite the deal if you walked in and asked.

^ the deal of your life, no doubt..

Yep, I bet it's dead cheap.

:)

A price to die for.:mid:

BBC News - Open verdict in Thai deaths case

18 November 2011 Last updated at 19:13 GMT

Open verdict in Thai deaths case

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2011/11/2356.jpg
The couple were staying at the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai


The family of a Lincolnshire couple who died at a hotel in Thailand have said they are frustrated at the lack of information about what happened.

George Everitt, 78, and his wife Eileen, 74, from Boston, died in Chiang Mai on 19 February.

A coroner's court in Spalding recorded an open verdict into their deaths.

The Thai authorities said the couple died of heart attacks, but the coroner said there was insufficient evidence to determine how they died.

Coroner Maureen Taylor said: "It is apparent the reason for their deaths may never be known.

"What started as an enjoyable holiday ended in tragedy and my sympathy is with the family who may never find the answers to their questions."

'Unbelievable circumstances' Andrew Taylor, the Everitts' son-in-law, said the verdict was frustrating.

"It has been nine months of unbelievable circumstances and you would like to get some sort of closure.

"We still don't really know what caused it."

There were two other deaths at the Downtown Inn in Chaing Mai several weeks before the Everitts died.

Mrs Everitt was found lying on the bed, while Mr Everitt was in a sitting position on the floor with his face falling forward on to the bed.

Home Office pathologist Guy Rutty told the inquest that an "atmospheric intoxicant" could have been to blame, but tests to find out what that was were inconclusive.

Mr Rutty said because the bodies were not sent to England for two months, it was difficult to carry out a second set of post-mortem tests due to the condition of the remains.

He said that simple carbon monoxide poisoning tests had not been carried out.

Quote:

---

Mr Rutty said because the bodies were not sent to England for two months, it was difficult to carry out a second set of post-mortem tests due to the condition of the remains.

---

Oh I bet the Thais are just livid about that.

Difficult but not impossible for a lab in UK to totally analyse the lungs.

Not sending the cadavres to UK for two months indicates a deliberate delay on the part of CM forensics dept. whom I have met along with the forensic pathologist at CM Maharaj, both of whom presented me with completely misleading info at those times.

I was forced to point this out to them on both occasions.

Each time, no explanation was given for their deception, just silence, Thai style.
I had challenged their findings resulting in loss of face on their part.

I surmise that the same situation applies in the cases of sudden death of the guests in CM.
Forensics depts. had the answers, but being police controlled were open to bribery to conceal the legitimate findings.

Incredible Thailand.

Quote:

---

Not sending the cadavres to UK for two months indicates a deliberate delay on the part of CM forensics dept.

---

No shit, Sherlock.

:)

Commander, to you sir. :)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Well done to the most inappropriate spam I've seen in fucking years!

:smileylaughing::smileylaughing::smileylaughing::s mileylaughing::smileylaughing::smileylaughing:

I missed it Harry. Can you give a brief synposis?

Maybe we should have a Famous Spam's forum to preserve the really good ones for posterity like Kojo's iPhone dealer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

gas bags in a room

---

Issues - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum

A fucking jingly company advertising, among other things: PESTICIDE!

:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by misskit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

Aluminium phosphide poisoning.

---

While looking at information about this chemical, I came across this. Could be...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Fumes kill two Danes in Jeddah

---

I'd like to bring back the Aluminium phosphide hypothesis.
Misskit's link is very revealing.

"Traces of the pesticide, aluminium phosphide, were found on dishes in the next door house ".
It doesn't take much of that stuff. Everything fits that it was this.

Traces of aluminium were found in the carpet in at least one room of the Downtown Inn.

---

As was pointed out in previous pages above aluminum phosphide fits the bill, especially since it can kill easily via inhalation. Plus it is readily available, and is used in suicides and homicides in the second and third world.

But, even though I have maintained these Koh Phi Phi and Chiang Mai deaths were murder, I now believe it could have been 'accidental', especially if the maintenance people placed some aluminum phosphide pellets (in the AC?).

On the other hand, why haven't there been other deaths from pesticides in hotel rooms? Tens of thousands of rooms in Thailand, with hundreds of thousands of visitors. Why this concentration of deaths in the two cities but at least 3 different hotels?

It could also have been deliberate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

On the other hand, why haven't there been other deaths from pesticides in hotel rooms? Tens of thousands of rooms in Thailand, with hundreds of thousands of visitors.

---

People DO die from unknown causes in Thailand all the time; it just isn't reported. Often the local authorities will deem it to be food poisoning or some such thing and play it down. In the case of the Downtown Inn, for some reason there was a cluster, so it came to the attention of the press.

One of the people who died in Chiang Mai was not staying in the Downtown Inn. Mariam Soraya Vorster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Another mystery death in Thailand - World - NZ Herald News

Another mystery death in Thailand

By Stuart Dye
5:21 PM Wednesday Mar 9, 2011

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2011/03/1641.jpg
Mariam Soraya Vorster, left, died mysteriously in Chiang Mai just weeks before New Zealander Sarah Carter, right. Photos / Supplied

A fifth tourist has died in Chiang Mai, Thailand, in circumstances eerily similar to New Zealander Sarah Carter's mysterious death - which health officials initially blamed on food poisoning.

American Mariam Soraya Vorster, a 33-year-old from Seattle working as a guide in Chiang Mai, died on January 11 - just over three weeks before 23-year-old Sarah died.
....

"Soraya had an autopsy at University Hospital in Chiang Mai on January 12 or 13 and we still have no results."

Ms Vorster's death is one of five in a six-week spell in Chiang Mai.

Local woman Waraporn Pungmahisiranon died two days before Sarah and British pensioners George and Eileen Everitt died less than two weeks later.

Those deaths were all in the same hotel - the Downtown Inn.

Mr Pandolo said his wife was staying in a different hotel, but the symptoms were the same.

---

Back in 2009, I was on holiday in Chiang Mai and was seeing a nurse at the time (fortunately for me). We ate at a place which was well-known for having the BEST Thai food. Four hours later, I came down with chills, fever and a terrible case of the "runs" My nurse friend was affected, too but not as severely. She went down to the pharmacy and came back with antibiotics and some rehydration salts. She also gave me a sponge bath (which may have been pleasant under other circumstances) She told me later that I could have died from food poisoning, had she not been around. Just another reason why I love Thai women. :)