Thread: Thailand : Solar Power

Some interesting reading from Reuters on Solar firms and the economic problems they face.

More solar firms set to burn up as prices sink

At least, this means when I buy my solar cells for my house in Thailand, I should get them for a decent price (I hope!!). With the amount of land we have, I wonder if we could become a VSPP. Hmmm, this could become interesting ....

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by stevefarang

I'm not sure how filling up ENT's car for 30% less cash has to do with solar plants. Maybe he's talking about an HHO unit. As far as HHO units, it's basic science that you use more energy, in the elecrolysis, to break the bonds and create free Hydrogen than the energy the Hydrogen provides. You can't create more energy than what exists, that's a basic, proven fact.

I was not able to come up with google to something like ENT is claiming. As I understand it would be a panel producing hydrogen direktly using solar power without a step of producing eletricity and then eletrolysis. How this would run his car I don't know. Maybe he can provide a link, I hope.

Google HHO unit leads to results that scream scam all over the place.

HHO units work, make your own simple unit for $10 and turn your fuel screw in by 1/3rd or more to reduce fuel entry to carburettor.

I've also looked at and used some quite complex units, and my son, an engineer, built his experimental units, including the so called dry cell job.
All work, several people claim to get up to 70% fuel reduction.
Coupling 3 units together will achieve almost 100% fuel reduction, at 15 < 25 amps.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough re. solar unit and HHO.

You are correct in your assumption that a solar panel will need to store electricity in a battery for a constant flow to the hydrolizer.

Small solar panels are an efficient method of creating cheap electricity, and can be used anywhere.
I was referring to TiO2 PVPs as a more efficient model than current silicone/rare metal ones.

So, connect TiO2 pvp to battery, battery to hydrolizer, that to carburettor or storage or gas cooker.

The unit I designed used a small standard PVP mounted on a bracket with a 12v battery attached firmly below.
The hydroliser was clamped onto the same bracket, producing oxygen which was vented to the atmosphere and the hydrogen gas piped to a standard LPG gas cooker attached to the frame.
The whole lot was portable, not much heavier than the car battery.

It was an almost cost free cooker, useful anywhere, but especially in remote areas without electricity or non-wood fuels.

Switching the unit on via a car dimmer switch allowed increased gas production as the amps spiked from 5<15 amps.
The dimmer switch was also through connected to the gas volume control, so that I could increase the cooker flame.

I don't know where you get the idea that it is too costly to produce hydrogen.
If you checked out the HHO sites on Google you would have seen and read of many examples where the HHO is produced abundantly at very low amps, 1.5 amps in some cases.

Here's a link to liquid HHO, a very cheap fuel.
HowStuffWorks "Liquid-Propellant Rockets"

Originally Posted by ENT

Coupling 3 units together will achieve almost 100% fuel reduction, at 15 < 25 amps.

I go with Homer Simpson on that one. In one episode he told his daughter Lisa: You dismount that Perpetuum Mobile now. The laws of thermodynamics are valid in this house, too.

Originally Posted by stevefarang

Some interesting reading from Reuters on Solar firms and the economic problems they face.

More solar firms set to burn up as prices sink

At least, this means when I buy my solar cells for my house in Thailand, I should get them for a decent price (I hope!!). With the amount of land we have, I wonder if we could become a VSPP. Hmmm, this could become interesting ....

Storing electricity from PVPs in say 20x12 volt batteries, gives you 240 volts for direct use.
Otherwise, hooking an inverter to the batteries will give you 240 volts if needed.

^^
Are you referring to this?

The Perpetuum Mobile - an Overview

Originally Posted by ENT

Are you referring to this?

The Perpetuum Mobile - an Overview

Yes, that's the one.

Related :

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...outh-east.html

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...esistance.html (Nuclear power plant faces strong resistance)

Sonnedix Marks Completion of 9.5 MW Solar Plant in Thailand
Zhang Fang
Sat, Mar 9th, 2013

Sonnedix Group announces that it has reached over 100 megawatts of operating PV capacity with the completion of a 9.5MW solar plant in the Mae Chan district in Chiang Rai northern Thailand.

The solar power plant is the largest built to date in northern Thailand, and was constructed by Assyce Fotovoltaica and Ch. Karnchang Group using 41,000 REC solar modules and 16 ABB inverters.

Long term bank debt was provided by Krung Thai Bank on a non recourse project finance basis.



“We intend to pursue our growth in Thailand and Asia as one of its leading independent solar power producers. As Solar PV Power in Thailand keeps growing, considering the local community requirements is a key element to a successful integration”, said Sonnedix Chairman, Mr. Franck Constant.

“Regardless of our growth, we cannot forget our environment, and giving back to the community is an important and necessary pledge to our long-term relationship”.

Sonnedix is committed to its global Corporate Social Responsibility Initiative which invests in education, quality of life and good neighbor programs tailored to each plant it develops. In Thailand, Sonnedix Solar is currently donating and installing PV solar systems at local schools.

The Chiang Rai Solar Plant can supply enough electricity to meet the annual needs of about 7,200 average Thai homes. It is expected to generate more than 14,400 megawatt hours of clean electricity per year, offsetting carbon dioxide emissions of more than 10,000 tons a year. A Buddhist inauguration ceremony took place at the power plant last week.

thailand-business-news.com

At last people are starting to turn away from dams and coal fired power plants etc for energy.

Solar power is the obvious major source of "free" energy available.
Looking forward to the day when all our energy needs will be supplied by solar and wind powered electricity generators.

An unexpected and delightful surprise. Well done Thailand.

Yes I agree totally...a very lovely unsuspected surprise...Hmmm does anybody know the cost per panel of these things?

You can get 280W panels for about 6000B in old siam, bangkok, they have come down a lot in price over the last 2 years... which might have something to do with the americans accusing china of dumping.

i must say one must remember that manufacturing solar cells is an increadibly energy intensive process. To call solar electricy green, you really need to put them in places where a lot of equally energy intensive steel, aluminium and copper will be required to get conventional electricty to site.

The numbers work out at
As for this project, it works out at supplying 5.5 Kw/h per day per house@7200 homes, not including transmission and battery losses

although quite a few reports claim that 72,000 homes will be supplied, which would be 0.55 Kw/h per day, enough to give you 50W for 8-11 hours. Enough to give a newly electrified village the primary echonomic and life style changes that come with electricity.... but unlikely to meet the expectations of people, hance they have electricity and figured out it does much more than lights, fridges, washing machines and tv's

Bit smaller but there are already quite a few. The one in Bang Pa In is 32 Mw I believe.

That is very true, but what I am seeing installed at these commercial sites is poly-crystalline silicone cells, rater than amorphous and to be honest at old siam, the large amorphous cells that were on sale have been replaced by much higher power (size for size) poly-silicone cells at more or less the same price.

I do wonder if cash from carbon trading/offsetting is one of the driving forces making these farms economic. I certainly would fit into the spirit of these schemes and helpful to the local communities.

Originally Posted by hazz

You can get 280W panels for about 6000B in old siam, bangkok, they have come down a lot in price over the last 2 years... which might have something to do with the americans accusing china of dumping.

i must say one must remember that manufacturing solar cells is an increadibly energy intensive process. To call solar electricy green, you really need to put them in places where a lot of equally energy intensive steel, aluminium and copper will be required to get conventional electricty to site.

The numbers work out at
As for this project, it works out at supplying 5.5 Kw/h per day per house@7200 homes, not including transmission and battery losses

although quite a few reports claim that 72,000 homes will be supplied, which would be 0.55 Kw/h per day, enough to give you 50W for 8-11 hours. Enough to give a newly electrified village the primary echonomic and life style changes that come with electricity.... but unlikely to meet the expectations of people, hance they have electricity and figured out it does much more than lights, fridges, washing machines and tv's

What shop in Old Siam?

^^Amorn Electronic Amorn Electronics Center
Word or warning, they are a proper thai company with a thai attitude to customer service and most importently warranties. Everything I have got from them has come with a 7 day warranty wich would be seriously seriously wank on solar cells.

There is a company near where I live that specialises in transmission equipment thats been heavily involved in rolling out quite a few of these farms and last years bonus made all the staff very happy. If you want a lot of panels, they might be a good bet, but it depends upon their success being based upon their compentive pricing or bribing

Originally Posted by hazz

^^Amorn Electronic Amorn Electronics Center
Word or warning, they are a proper thai company with a thai attitude to customer service and most importently warranties. Everything I have got from them has come with a 7 day warranty wich would be seriously seriously wank on solar cells.

There is a company near where I live that specialises in transmission equipment thats been heavily involved in rolling out quite a few of these farms and last years bonus made all the staff very happy. If you want a lot of panels, they might be a good bet, but it depends upon their success being based upon their compentive pricing or bribing

I like solar.
Can you detail that post?

Thailand: Power from waste; 300 plants feed into grid running on renewable sources like sun and wind
Tan Hui Yee
03/22/2013

NAKHON RATCHASIMA - From its nondescript entrance, Tong Hua in north-eastern Thailand looks just like any other rice mill in the country.

Walk about 100m into its sprawling compound, however, and you notice something different: A smokestack nudges an otherwise clear skyline, part of a small power plant that turns rice husks into electricity on the spot.

Tong Hua, incidentally, supplies the grain that goes into the SongHe brand of rice sold in Singapore. Its energy production is a testament to the growth of Thailand's electricity sector, which analysts tout as the most progressive in the region.

Incentives and loans allow small operators to run more than 300 small plants using renewable sources like the sun, wind or agricultural waste.

These plants in turn feed electricity back into the main grid, helping to supplement a power generation system that is straining under growing demand.

"It is an example for the region," says Dr Chris Greacen, founder of non-profit renewable energy group Palang Thai.

Just last month, however, Thailand's Energy Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisarn warned a routine gas pipeline maintenance in April may cause partial blackouts. While some bemoaned official ineptitude for the possible disruption, others alleged it was a ploy to fast-track approval for controversial coal or hydropower plants.

Former energy minister Piyasvasti Amranand argues it is time to put the focus back on growing the alternative energy sector and moving away from natural gas, which accounted for some 68 per cent of power generated last year.

According to the Energy Policy and Planning Office, about 5 per cent of Thailand's electricity is currently generated from renewable resources, if hydropower is not taken into account.

Thailand's farms and factories seem to have tapped just about every type of waste to produce power. Rice mills burn husks for energy. Sugar mills do the same with bagasse, the fibre left over after sugar cane is crushed. Pig farms use the biogas generated by manure to create electricity.

These developments were nurtured through the gradual liberalisation of the energy sector from the 1990s, allowing small power producers to be paid premiums on top of fixed rates for their power.

At Tong Hua, a conveyor system transports about 200 tonnes of husk daily from its rice mill to a furnace, which burns it at 950 deg C to produce electricity. The firm uses 60 per cent of the electricity generated by its 7.7MW plant and sells the rest to the Provincial Electricity Authority. It sells electricity to the authorities at 2.9 baht (12 Singapore cents) per kilowatt hour but gets another 0.3 baht as part of the incentive scheme.

But its managing director Suthep Wiroadpaisit says it was motivated more by the need to fix an unstable power supply about 10 years ago and for an outlet for the husks. "We had no electricity, nowhere to put our own rice husks. We had to solve our own problem," he tells The Straits Times.

These alternative energy plants have, in turn, pushed up the prices of agricultural waste. Rice husk, for example, now costs 1,300 baht a tonne compared to just 50 baht eight years ago, says Mr Suthep.

Although Thailand aims to have renewable energy account for a quarter of total energy consumed by the next decade, officials say it has to keep a lid on the premiums paid for alternative energy production so consumers do not end up paying more. It also has to calibrate the amounts of energy from different sources to reduce supply disruption chances.

"What will happen if it is not sunny, or if there is no wind'" Energy Ministry permanent secretary Norkhun Sitthipong points out. "This is not just about capacity, but reliability as well."

power-eng.com

Bouygues to build Thai solar plant
Thu April 25th 2013

Two subsidiaries of Bouygues Construction have signed a US$50m (£33m) contract for the design, construction and maintenance of three photovoltaic power plants in the Tak and Sukhothai provinces of north-east Thailand.



Bouygues Thai and Bouygues Energies & Services are carrying out the work for solar energy producer Soleq Solar Thailand.

In total, the three solar farms will be equipped with more than 100,000 photovoltaic panels over 60ha and will deliver annual production of approximately 45GWh, equivalent to the annual consumption of the households in a Thai city of 90,000 people.

Each site will have peak power of 10MW.

Bouygues Energies & Services and Bouygues Thai will be responsible for operating and maintaining the solar farms for a period of five years.

The design and construction works, which will involve 450 people on site at peak periods, will begin next month.

Handover is scheduled for the end of 2013.

theconstructionindex.co.uk

Latest developments of PVP nano-technology has resulted in remarkable increase in energy production, greater than that produced by standard silicone based PVPs.

---
North Carolina’s Semprius Inc. and its German backer Siemens said they have developed the world’s most efficient solar panel. The prototype converts 33.9 percent of the sunlight that hits it into electricity, according to separate press releases from the two companies. That’s more than double the most efficient conventional photovoltaic (PV) module on the market, where performance tops out at 16 percent, Forbes magazine found late last year.


Breakthrough: World’s most efficient solar panel | SmartPlanet

Saudi Arabia To Invest In Solar Cells In Thailand

BANGKOK, Oct 4 (Bernama) -- Saudi Arabia has announced its investment in roof-mounted solar panels and solar farms in Thailand, Thai News Agency (TNA) reported.

President of Thailand-based SPCG Public Company Limited, Wandee Khunchornyakong, told reporters of the Saudi plan on Thursday, after a meeting between representatives of Saudi's Marasel Group and the Thai permanent secretary for energy and representatives of the Federation of Thai Industries (FTI).

According to TNA, the Saudi businesses are expected to help revive relations between Thailand and Saudi Arabia.

Wandee revealed that the Saudi Arabian company plans to generate 50,000 megawatts of electricity with roof-mounted solar panels and solar farms in Thailand over the next 15 years and has set the purchase price at US$0.06 (RM0.19) per unit of electricity.

Wandee also said that Marasel has proposed a joint venture with SPCG, with the latter having planned to invest 100 million baht (RM10.2 million) in the forms of consultancy and installation.

Kyocera solar panels will be used in the project while SPCG will increase its investment afterwards.

bernama.com

Thailand Solar Energy: Government Subsidy Spurs Investment Frenzy
Sophie Song
November 08 2013


Two employees of SPCG, Thailand's largest solar farm producer, take notes between panels at the farm in Korat, Nakorn Ratchasima province, October 3, 2013. Riding on generous government incentives, Thailand's energy firms are deepening a push into solar power to bolster their profits over the next few years and perk up lacklustre shares.
Picture taken October 3, 2013. REUTERS/Athit Perawongmetha

Thai energy companies will invest up to $2 billion in the solar energy industry over the next five years, as the government incentivizes solar projects to provide power for Southeast Asia’s second-largest economy.

"Solar is hot," said Wandee Khunchornyakong, CEO of SPCG, Thailand’s largest solar farm, according to Reuters. "It's undeniable that everyone wants to enter this business."

SPCG will make a net profit of 10 million Thai baht ($319,400) per megawatt this year, at least four times that of traditional power producers. The Thai government is increasingly buying electricity from solar power producers at a premium now that fossil fuel prices have gone up. And companies like Utility Electricity Generating Pcl (EGCO) and refiner Bangchak Petroleum Pcl are among the traditional energy companies hoping to ride the wave and expand into solar.

Solar already performed well for Bangchak, part of state-controlled PTT Pcl, with earnings of the company’s solar business jumping 150 percent year-on-year in the third quarter. The technology now accounts for 15 percent of its core quarterly profit of 2.6 billion baht. The company plans to raise its solar capacity to 169 megawatts by next year from the 94 MW this year, and it hopes to further boost that number to 500 MW by 2020.

Bangchak and other solar producers are already getting paid up to eight baht per kWh for the 1,445 MW they have contracted to sell to the state grid. The government also launched a project in September to buy solar power from households and factories that would be willing to install solar photovoltaic panels on their roofs for nearly seven baht per kilowatt-hour, much higher than the four baht per kWh that electricity generated by gas-fired power stations receive.

Even with the extra cash the government is paying solar power is cheaper than what new power from conventional sources would cost with hikes in oil and gas prices.

"The government has made it very attractive to enter the sector now," said Itphong Saengtubtim, analyst at KGI Securities, according to Reuters. "But for solar farms, there are some risks as we don't know when the government will issue more new licenses. And, future projects' return on investment may fall because the government may not offer high rates to buy solar power as high as it is offering now."

Overall, Thailand is planning to triple its solar power capacity to 3,000 MW by 2021, when renewable energy will be expected to account for a quarter of the country’s energy mix, up from 8 percent now. By that time, an estimated one fifth of renewable energy will come from solar power. There is a $144 million solar farm under construction in Thailand’s east and northeast provinces, according to Bangchak president Vichien Usanachote.

Thai companies’ shift to solar panel presents opportunities for international companies involved in the sector. Japan’s Kyocera Corp and China’s Suntec Power Holdings Co Ltd. both want in to make up for weak global prices due to oversupply, Reuters reported.

ibtimes.com

> HHO units work, make your own simple unit for $10 and turn your fuel screw in by 1/3rd or more to reduce fuel entry to carburettor.
> Coupling 3 units together will achieve almost 100% fuel reduction, at 15 < 25 amps.

Utter steaming codswallop !!!

The power released by the Hydrogen must be considerably less than the power required to generate the electricity in the first place.

If you could get this to work you would be a very rich man.

And you would be even more famous for re-writing the laws of physics.

Your Nobel prize would be nice too.