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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Navy Duped Into Buying Subs With No Engines

    A Pheu Thai Party MP claims there are irregularities in the navy’s controversial submarine procurement programme, adding the military branch is being duped into buying vessels with no engines.


    Yutthapong Charasathian, deputy Pheu Thai Party leader and MP for Maha Sarakham, yesterday during a weekly press briefing at party headquarters took aim at the navy’s plan to buy three submarines from China.

    The first submarine was already bought for 13.5 billion baht and is due for delivery next year.


    However, the procurement of two other submarines, valued at 22.5 billion baht, is still in limbo and could be put on hold due to financial constraints caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, according to a source in the navy.


    Mr Charasathian claimed China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), which signed the submarine contract with the navy, does not represent the Chinese government.


    The CSOC is a private company, which means the submarine contract that the navy signed with the CSOC was not a government-to-government deal, he said.


    Mr Charasathian said there is also a project to construct a submarine base in two phases worth about 1.85 billion baht.


    Mr Charasathian also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.


    “Did they dupe the government and the navy?” he said.


    He also claimed that the first submarine, due for delivery, has no engines because China cannot manufacture diesel engines for submarines and will have to buy them from Germany.


    Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany’s MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Charasathian alleged.


    He said he had received information that the CSOC will replace Germany’s engine with a Chinese-made engine for the submarine instead.


    Mr Charasathian said he will bring the matter to the attention of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, and ask him to stop any move to replace the engine type stipulated in the contract.


    The change could lead to a glitch in the submarine, putting naval officers at risk, Mr Charasathian said.


    Navy 'Duped Into Buying Subs With No Engines' | Chiang Mai News - Daily News Stories From Chiang Mai & Thailand

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat
    malmomike77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Mr Charasathian also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.


    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    A Pheu Thai Party MP claims there are irregularities in the navy’s controversial submarine procurement programme, adding the military branch is being duped into buying vessels with no engines.



    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    He also claimed that the first submarine, due for delivery, has no engines because China cannot manufacture diesel engines for submarines and will have to buy them from Germany.
    Something smells wrong here


    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany’s MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Charasathian alleged.
    Oh i see

    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    He said he had received information that the CSOC will replace Germany’s engine with a Chinese-made engine for the submarine instead.
    But but..................
    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    He also claimed that the first submarine, due for delivery, has no engines because China cannot manufacture diesel engines for submarines and will have to buy them from Germany.

    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Mr Charasathian said he will bring the matter to the attention of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha
    Well lets hope he can see through all this

    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    The change could lead to a glitch in the submarine, putting naval officers at risk, Mr Charasathian said.
    Glitches are the enemy of every submarine. But what about the ratings?

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    It’s like some comedy spoof.

  4. #4
    SANS SOUCI
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    Don't worry the tuktuk speed will supplement the oars if the Cambo's turf up.

    This is why as the saying goes in the senior service

    We need to hang an Admiral every 100 years to encourage the others

    I've an old Fortuna block which I need a really slick Salesman to present to the Admiralty as my tip top spruiker Hamasman Pat is stuck in NZ

    20% commission

    Must be presentable

    Speak Thai , bollox and Kiw/Strine

    Experience selling tobacco tins as bum detectors a big plus

    Self starters , while petrol and daily noodle allowance

    MUST HAVE OWN GREEN PICK UP TRUCK and fit nongs to mount my gear

    No Thyme waisted or slack willy's please.

    'To Encourage the Others’ – Admiral Byng’s Execution Was a Grim Warning to Royal Navy Officers: ‘Do Your Utmost!’ - MilitaryHistoryNow.com
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWilly View Post
    standard deviation

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    It’s like some comedy spoof.
    There is a lots bad going on atm but you can always count on Thai bureaucracy to lighten the mood. The thing is you just know that if you repeated that lot back to them they wouldn't see anything wrong with it.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    I bet they've already spent the skim as well.

  7. #7
    Isle of discombobulation Joe 90's Avatar
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    Priceless

  8. #8
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    TiT. Anyway, there is an endless supply of Burmese peasants to provide pedal power- and it sure bets being a slave on a Thai fishing boat.

  9. #9
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    What else did anyone expect from a lumpen peasant society exploited by a medieval corruptocracy?

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    It’s like some comedy spoof.
    No it is more likely the Thais didn't read the details of the contract but the Chinese did. Probably doesn't state "with engines" in the contract.

  11. #11
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    According to some random internet sources, the Type 39/41 Chinese subs have AIP or Air Independent Propulsion, which probably means it's powered by a combination Stirling/Electric system. The Chinese probably don't want to sell this technology to the Thais, so the S20 sub series (the export version of the Type 39/41 subs) will need some sort of more conventional (Diesel/Electric) engines.

    This also means that the subs will be very unstealthy when operating in shallow waters, like the Gulf of Thailand!

  12. #12
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    The average depth of the Gulf is 45m. Th optimum operating depth of a submarine is around 250 -300m.

    I rather think even the stupidest naval procurement agency would question the need for such a boat.

    But then, I reckon we all know what the primary purpose of this stupid deal is.

  13. #13
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Move to proper thread Kit.
    Show us your impulse buy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    A Pheu Thai Party MP claims there are irregularities in the navy’s controversial submarine procurement programme, adding the military branch is being duped into buying vessels with no engines.



    Mr Charasathian also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.


    He also claimed that the first submarine, due for delivery, has no engines because China cannot manufacture diesel engines for submarines and will have to buy them from Germany.


    Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany’s MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Charasathian alleged.


    He said he had received information that the CSOC will replace Germany’s engine with a Chinese-made engine for the submarine instead.


    Can you imagine the state of this Chinese-made "submarine" when it finally arrives?

    Navy Duped Into Buying Subs With No Engines-51xwjz7maws-_ac_sx425_-jpg

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat
    malmomike77's Avatar
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    I think its a prudent purchase ahead of the 45 year programme to dredge the gulf.

  16. #16
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    China Told It Must Honour Submarine Deal

    The Royal Thai Navy insists China has to honour an agreement to supply it with a new submarine with a German-made MTU 396 engine, adding the navy will do its best to ensure the procurement is completed.


    Since the navy had already insisted the agreement to purchase the S26T Yuan-class submarine being built in China be fulfilled, the rest is China’s responsibility, Adm Tharoengsak Sirisawat, the navy chief of staff, said yesterday.


    He said China needs to obtain the exact submarine engine type as stated in the procurement agreement.


    Adm Sirisawat was responding to renewed criticism by the opposition against the navy’s submarine purchase after MTU, the German maker of the submarine engine, reportedly refused to sell it to China after learning the engine would be used for a new submarine being sold to a third country.


    Asked whether the navy would ever agree to China using a Chinese-made engine instead, he said the navy had stated it must be an MTU 396 engine.


    And when asked if the navy would demand a fine be paid or even terminate the agreement in the event China cannot fulfil the terms, Adm Sirisawat said everything was clearly stated in the contract, and the situation was still rectifiable.


    However, when pressed on whether it would be possible for the navy to terminate the contract over this matter, Adm Sirisawat said time would tell. If necessary, both the Thai and Chinese sides would have to first discuss how they will resolve the problem, he said.


    “Does the navy really want to have a new submarine? Yes, of course. But what kind of submarine do we want? The answer is it must be the one stated in the contract signed by both sides,” he added.


    The navy will try its best to ensure the agreement is honoured because a new submarine is needed as part of the navy’s security strategy for the country, he said when asked what the navy would do if China keeps postponing delivery.

    China Told It Must Honour Submarine Deal | Chiang Mai News - Daily News Stories From Chiang Mai & Thailand

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat
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    Good luck getting the Chinese to accede to your wishes Thailand.



  18. #18
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    No worries. They will eventually find a rubber band big enough.

    Navy Duped Into Buying Subs With No Engines-08caa3aa-f420-4f73-bacf-81367bbf9a5e-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Navy Duped Into Buying Subs With No Engines-08caa3aa-f420-4f73-bacf-81367bbf9a5e-jpg  

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Talks on Thailand’s submarine engine problem postponed until May

    Talks between the Royal Thai Navy (RTN), China Shipbuilding and the Offshore International Company (CSOC) on a submarine engine problem, which were due to take place this month, have been postponed to May due to the COVID-19 situation in China, according to RTN Spokesman Vice Adm Pokkrong Monthatphalin.


    The engine problem, in Thailand’s first, but controversial, submarine procured from China, started when Germany refused to sell the MTU 396 diesel engine to China as part of the EU’s embargo on the country.


    CSOC, the submarine builder, has offered an alternative Chinese-made engine, which they claim is of a similar standard, but the RTN has rejected the offer and insists on delivery of the German engine.


    Vice Adm Pokkrong said that RTN Chief of Staff Adm Talerngsak Sirisawat who is also the chairman of the submarine project, will represent the RTN in the upcoming talks with CSOC, which are aimed at finding a solution to the problem.


    He dismissed speculations that the talks would include the matter of used submarines.


    The spokesman also said that the Navy Commander-in-Chief, Adm Somprasong Nilsamai, wants the case to be settled as quickly as possible.


    The Yuan-class S26T submarine is scheduled to be delivered to the RTN in 2024.

    https://www.thaipbsworld.com/talks-o...ned-until-may/

  20. #20
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    It takes time to manufacture bigget rubber bands and by the they may have dredged enough of the gulf for them to try and borrow a sub for a test dive to 50 meters to see if they like their ears popping whilst they can still back out.

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    According to some random internet sources, the Type 39/41 Chinese subs have AIP or Air Independent Propulsion, which probably means it's powered by a combination Stirling/Electric system. The Chinese probably don't want to sell this technology to the Thais, so the S20 sub series (the export version of the Type 39/41 subs) will need some sort of more conventional (Diesel/Electric) engines.

    This also means that the subs will be very unstealthy when operating in shallow waters, like the Gulf of Thailand!
    It's OK though, in shallow waters they can use the sails.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Submarine purchase deal with China ongoing and Thailand will not break their contract although the submarines have no engines, Thai PM confirms


    Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O’Cha said that the purchase deal of submarines with China was ongoing and still has time for engine procurement after they insisted to purchase the submarines currently without “engines”.


    In April, the government insisted on buying a 13.5-billion-baht submarine from China Shipbuilding & Offshore International without Germany’s MTU396 diesel engines despite the fact that the German company had stopped exporting its engines to China due to the country’s use for military purposes.


    The issue was brought into discussion in a debate again today by government oppositional parties. The Prime Minister stated in response that the purchase deal is still in line with the contract which still has 60 days remaining to complete the purchase.


    “No one would buy a submarine without engines, we will find and procure them” he added.


    TPN media notes that the ongoing submarine saga has driven significant attention from Thai social media with many netizens feeling the purchase is not needed.

    Attention Required! | Cloudflare

  23. #23
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    Is it because this government/junta knows it can act with total impunity that they talk such total gibberish or is it more the case they are indeed just fucking greedy idiots and assume everyone is as stupid as they are.
    Last edited by Seekingasylum; 25-06-2022 at 10:09 AM.

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Royal Thai Navy considering accepting Chinese-made engines for its submarine purchases


    The Royal Thai Navy (RTN) is considering accepting Chinese-made engines for the S26T Yuan-class submarine to replace the German-made MTU396 diesel engine, which had been rejected for export to China by the German company.


    RTN spokesperson Pokkrong Monthatphalin told the press today, August 10th, that the China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co. (CSOC) had previously offered its CHD620 diesel engine for the submarine.


    The company held a talk with the Navy on Tuesday, August 9th, and gave details about the specifications of their modified engines for the S26T submarine. The RTN is currently in the assessment process of the engine details and the process is expected to be finalized on September 15th, the spokesperson stated.


    According to the purchase contract, the CSOC grants permission to modify the submarine to meet the equal qualifications to the previously-contracted German engine.


    “If the substitute cannot pass the test, the Navy could end the contract and seek compensation or refunds,” Vice Admiral Pokkrong added.

    Attention Required! | Cloudflare

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    The Royal Thai Navy (RTN) is considering accepting Chinese-made engines for the S26T Yuan-class submarine to replace the German-made MTU396 diesel engine,

    Oh boy...

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