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Thread: Power in Asia

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Power in Asia

    China’s Power in Asia Falls as U.S. Regains Authority, Lowy Says

    By Lisa Du
    December 5, 2021 (Bloomberg)


    • U.S. gains more influence in Asia as China turns inward
    • Indonesia rises to top 10 rankings for first time


    Chinese President Xi Jinping and U.S. President Joe Biden, pictured at a California school in Feb. 2012 when they were still vice presidents of their respective nations. Photographer: Tim Rue/Bloomberg

    China's influence in Asia receded in the second year of the pandemic as the country turned more inward, while the U.S. expanded its power in the region through better diplomacy, according to an Australian research group.

    China’s measure of power fell as the country wrestled with structural weaknesses in its demographics and financial system and become more isolationist, the Sydney-based Lowy Institute said in its Asia Power Index for 2021, which ranks 26 nations and territories. The index measures power using 131 indicators including economic clout, defense capability, cultural and diplomatic influence, and projected future resources.

    Comparatively, the U.S. gained more influence in Asia this year due to President Joe Biden’s administration brokering better diplomatic relationships and a speedy recovery from the pandemic with the help of vaccinations, said Herve Lemahieu, the study’s research chief and director of Lowy’s Asian Power and Diplomacy Program.
    “There's been a bit of a flip in assessments of the U.S. and China’s future prospects across a range of measures — military, economic and demographic,” Lemahieu said in an interview with Bloomberg News. “And that suggests that the U.S. will remain or has the ability to remain competitive as equal to China or as the primary superpower for much longer than we anticipated.”

    The top 10 countries for overall power in the Asia-Pacific region are the U.S., China, Japan, India, Russia, Australia, South Korea, Singapore, Indonesia and Thailand, the study said. The ranking this year reflected the longer term impact of the pandemic, with the overall power of most countries falling compared to last year in the index.

    Although China improved on resilience indicators as it shifted more toward domestic production and consumption, Beijing’s more isolationist turn also meant it lost ground on influence. An assessment of the country’s future resources added the most downward pressure on China’s power, as the need to tackle its rapidly aging population and a heavy domestic debt load became apparent, the study said.

    It’s unclear how the spreading omicron coronavirus strain is going to change the prospects for the region and the balance of power, but the variant underscores the importance that vaccination has played in this year’s rankings, Lemahieu said.
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

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    Isle of discombobulation Joe 90's Avatar
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    I really am not a fan of XI the variant of mass destruction.
    I do think the world should unite and sanction the hell out of China and their leaders.
    They truly are the most despicable race on the planet.

    Saddam Hussein was an angel in comparison.

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe 90 View Post
    They truly are the most despicable race on the planet
    ...careful to avoid unfortunate generalizations, I see...

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    Joe, what have they done?

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    Isle of discombobulation Joe 90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    Joe, what have they done?
    They shit in the street !

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe 90 View Post
    They shit in the street !
    ...oh, you mean after pubs close and before they hit the local kebab then...

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    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    They truly are the most despicable race on the planet.
    "There are some bored foreigners, with full stomachs, who have nothing better to do than point fingers at us. First, China doesn't export revolution; second, China doesn't export hunger and poverty; third, China doesn't come and cause you headaches. What more is there to be said?"

    Who on Earth said That??

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    "There are some bored foreigners, with full stomachs, who have nothing better to do than point fingers at us.
    Nobody was "pointing fingers" at China until there were reasons to.

    1. Didn't admit the Wuhan virus spread "person to person" (like a flu) until Thailand announced a case — China stopped domestic travel out of Wuhan, but not international travel = good reason to point a finger at China as millions have died from China's Wuhan virus.

    2. Hong Kong: What happened to "one country; two systems"? It's sad what has happened to HK as it will just become another Chinese city now.

    3. Taiwan: A very successful peaceful democratic country is being harrassed and under threat from a "big fucking dangerous bully" = a reason to point a finger.

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    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    ^ Heh, try telling that to a hongkonger- and I know several. They have their own Police, Customs and Judiciary you know. Their own history and unique traditions too. To the point that several of Australias banned lobster etc exports to China are actually still making their way into China via the backdoor- HK. Those people certainly know how to flip a dime.

    Anyway, it was good old Uncle Xi that said that, in Mexico 2009- before he became grand poobah. He had a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    To the point that several of Australias banned lobster etc exports to China are actually still making their way into China via the backdoor- HK.
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    He had a point.
    yep, that's a good reason to throw HK democracy protesters in jail for years.

    not.

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    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    The violent vandals deserved it. After the proposed extradition treaty was actually withdrawn by China most of the protesters went home- job done, and the violent idiots took over. Happens every time.

    The most prominent protester was one Martin Lee, an accomplished gentleman I have had the privilege to meet, on several occasions. He was done for "Holding an unauthorised Assembly"- and got an 11 month sentence, suspended for 24 months. The Judge was Justice Amanda Woodcock- a fine Chinese name if ever I've heard one. He has never spent a day in jail.

    Kindly find some examples of these 'HK democracy protesters being thrown in jail for years'.

    Martin Lee - Wikipedia

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    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Kindly find some examples of these 'HK democracy protesters being thrown in jail for years'.
    Sure. One just got five years for talking and - *gasp* - "chanting".

    What a villain and hardened criminal he is.

    A Hong Kong man known as “Captain America” for carrying the superhero’s shield at protest rallies has been sentenced to more than five years in jail for chanting slogans promoting Hong Kong’s independence from China.
    Ma Chun-man, a 31-year-old food delivery driver, was convicted last month by a judge of trying to separate the city from China by chanting slogans and displaying placards, as well as through interviews with reporters.
    Hong Kong protester known as ‘Captain America’ jailed for five years | Hong Kong | The Guardian

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Kindly find some examples of these 'HK democracy protesters being thrown in jail for years'.
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Sure. One just got five years for talking and - *gasp* - "chanting".
    *crickets* . . .


    Is this another sabang-apologist thread where he asks for examples and then negates each one he's shown?

    Of course it is.


    In Singapore and Malaysia sabang would be known as a fifty-cent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    known as a fifty-cent.
    or spivs 50s London as Arfur dollar the intwrestingly named half crown is 12.5 pennies today in Uk, 10p was a Florin from Fiirenza via Netherlands

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    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    I am so glad you guys actually Googled something! It does appear my threads are having the desired effect, jnr China watchers. Seriously, felicitations.

    You have, deliberately or not, unearthed the first two people sentenced under the recently passed HK national security laws I believe! Just to remind, or inform you- when China backed down on it's proposed extradition treaty for 'Crimes of State', the HK Legislative Council was then required to enact a national security law under HK legal jurisdiction- thus negating the requirement for extradition to the Mainland to be tried for said offences, real or not. Would most HKers prefer to be tried under the HK legal system than extradited to China to be tried? D'uhhh, I'll give ya one guess. Just to further remind you, the HK Legco was tasked with passing a law covering national security some 25 years ago, after the Handover 30/6/97- and it never happened. It was tried, and failed on several occasions- which is why China proposed the ill informed extradition treaty in the first place, out of apparent frustration. The spirited HK response soon enough sent them running for touch on that one. Score HK- 1; China- 0. So HK, in common with most national or quasi-national legal jurisdictions, now has national security legislation of it's own. Call it a draw then, if you like. But most HKers consider it a win.

    So, my personal View- starting with Captain America, aka Ma Chun Man the pizza deliver guy. I think his sentence of five years is too much. He did not commit crimes of violence- it is not alleged he vandalised, looted or stole either public or private property, or assaulted either members of the public or the HK constabulary. His 'crime' was vocally calling for HK independence while carrying a Capt America shield, and vociferously yapping to the eager presshounds thanks to the attention he thus engendered. I do not believe he deserved five years for that at all- I think basically he was made an example of.

    He was of course tried in a HK Court, under HK law, with a free defence Barrister appointed under the HK legal aid system I assume- because I seriously doubt a pizza guy could afford private Counsel. His call for "HK independence" was idiotic- because the vast majority of HKers do not call for HK independence at all, or want it. HK depends on the PRC much the same as a fetus depends on a uterus. But idiocy and naivete' are not criminalised, any more than the idiot delivering the wrong pizza. Fwiw the minimum sentence under the HK national security law for 'Seperatism', if found guilty, is three years- and I personally believe he deserved no more than that. The maximum is ten years. Of course, he will receive credit for time served if any, and further for 'good behavior' assuming he is not a nawty boy in jail- so he will likely be out in 3- 3.5 years.

    That will do for now, because I want another coffee. I will get back to you soon enough about 'the other guy'. Cheers for now- and again, my felicitations.

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    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    You have, deliberately or not, unearthed the first two people
    You're quite boring . . . collected yours yet?

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I think his sentence of five years is too much.
    ...why is that? He dared to express an unsanctioned opinion that may have influenced others...lock him up!...

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    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    No doubt Julian Assange and ilk have their own viewpoint on that TC! Der Law is ze Law, but my personal opinion remains that this custodial sentence was excessive. Of course, it is not quite the same as being shot, hung or 'disappeared'. Cue the word 'Totalitarian'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    it is not quite the same as being shot, hung or 'disappeared'.
    ...perhaps not, but it is still an egregious example of the tyranny of laws imposed by an authoritarian government...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Of course, it is not quite the same as being shot, hung or 'disappeared'. Cue the word 'Totalitarian'.
    Luckily there's still a difference between China and HK then.

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    I do know that at the HK Marathon recently that they weren't letting anyone race for wearing anything remotely related to one of the protest movements. That sure says to me that they are being over sensitive about speaking out against the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTraveler View Post
    That sure says to me that they are being over sensitive
    "Oversensitive" sums up the totalitarianistic/authoritarian government of China.

    To be fair, unlike democracies, authoritarian governments have to be oversensitive because they are terrified of losing control/power.

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    Good ole Sabang he never met a dictator he didn't like.

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    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    The Other Guy: Heavy Armor

    ^ Maybe that is because I have never met one snubs. I doubt Pol Pot would have liked me much. I sure know Gen Chan-Ocha wouldn't.



    Capt. America was actually the second miscreant sentenced under HK's brand shiny new national security law. The other guy was one 'Heavy Armor' aka Tong Ying Kit, and he got nine years! reasons-

    The first person charged and convicted under Hong Kong's national security law was sentenced to nine years in prison on Friday, setting a likely precedent for how future cases will be tried.

    Tong Ying-kit, 24, received a six-and-a-half-year prison term for the charge of incitement to secession for carrying a large black banner emblazoned with the popular anti-government protest slogan, "Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our times."

    He was also given eight years for committing terrorist activities, for crashing his motorcycle into a group of police officers last year, injuring three. Of these, 2.5 years will run consecutively, resulting in a total term of nine years.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/30/asia/tong-ying-kit-hong-kong-sentencing-intl-hnk/index.html

    I think you know my views on this, namely that deliberately ramming your motorbike at speed into a group of unarmed Police Officers is a lot more serious than the sedition/ separatism charge. He injured three, I vaguely recall at the time that two were said to be seriously injured. Under our legal system he would likely have been charged with attempted murder. So I have considerably less sympathy for Heavy Armor. He will likely be out in around six years (actually five, because he had already been on remand for a year), although I believe an appeal is pending.

    Once again, I believe the sentence for the separatism charge is in itself excessive- but seeing as that is largely time to be served concurrently with the more serious offence, yada yada.
    Last edited by sabang; 07-12-2021 at 02:20 PM.

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    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Tong Ying-kit, 24, received a six-and-a-half-year prison term for the charge of incitement to secession for carrying a large black banner emblazoned with the popular anti-government protest slogan, "Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our times."
    Six and a half years for "carrying a banner".

    This man is a criminal kingpin!

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