Thread: China's Nuclear Power

The root cause of current problems seems to be damaged fuel rods. There is of course no information as to whether the fuel rods were manufactured below spec or if the rods were damaged by mishandling at the site.

Where do the rods come from?

China. Good, patriotic rods made of finest Xinjiang uranium mined by happiest Uyghur inmates.

Originally Posted by sabang

China. Good, patriotic rods made of finest Xinxiang uranium mined by happiest Uyghur inmates.

Excellent. No problem there then.

Originally Posted by sabang

China. Good, patriotic rods made of finest Xinjiang uranium mined by happiest Uyghur inmates.

Yeah, got that going on too.....

In spite of what the doom mongers might have you believe, the reality of the situation is that one or more of the 60,000 fuel rods has a ruptured casing.

It wont be the first time and it certainly wont be last time this happens. In-spite of what the American media might have you believe this is a well known occurrence in Nuclear reactors throughout the world (particularly PWR's, due to the higher primary circuit operating pressures).

Furthermore, as these fission products (noble gases) are presently leaking into the primary circuit, which incidentally is located under multiple layers of containment. Hence, the chances of a radiation leak extending beyond the circuit is very low). These fission byproducts will now be removed by clean up facilities built into the primary loop circuit just for this purpose. These clean up facilities constantly remove/filter/and replace a proportion of the primary coolant charge, with this exact situation in mind.

The reactor is likely to continue operating with the fission byproduct clean up systems continuing to manage the situation, until such time as the operators can locate the leak, and can take the reactor offline for removal of the leaking fuel rod assembly. That is exactly how every other commercial nuclear reactor in the world operates, when such a situation as this happens, Chinese reactors are no different.

For an impartial assessment of the situation see here:


How serious is the nuclear power plant radiation leak in China? | New Scientist

Originally Posted by Listerman

In spite of what the doom mongers might have you believe, the reality of the situation is that one or more of the 60,000 fuel rods has a ruptured casing.

It wont be the first time and it certainly wont be last time this happens. In-spite of what the American media might have you believe this is a well known occurrence in Nuclear reactors throughout the world (particularly PWR's, due to the higher primary circuit operating pressures).

Furthermore, as these fission products (noble gases) are presently leaking into the primary circuit, which incidentally is located under multiple layers of containment. Hence, the chances of a radiation leak extending beyond the circuit is very low). These fission byproducts will now be removed by clean up facilities built into the primary loop circuit just for this purpose. These clean up facilities constantly remove/filter/and replace a proportion of the primary coolant charge, with this exact situation in mind.

The reactor is likely to continue operating with the fission byproduct clean up systems continuing to manage the situation, until such time as the operators can locate the leak, and can take the reactor offline for removal of the leaking fuel rod assembly. That is exactly how every other commercial nuclear reactor in the world operates, when such a situation as this happens, Chinese reactors are no different.

For an impartial assessment of the situation see here:


How serious is the nuclear power plant radiation leak in China? | New Scientist

You are completely missing the point which is that, as usual, our chinky friends tried to cover it up.

If it's that innocuous, why bother?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

If it's that innocuous,

probably is, it isn't the first time this happens, only first time in China

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

why bother?

FACE!

Originally Posted by lom

probably is, it isn't the first time this happens, only first time in China



FACE!

There was a problem once at Daya Bay, not a big problem, and that has been running fof nearly 30 years. That time too it was not transparent.

Nuclear power stations do have operating problems occasionally, around the world. Harry's point is fair, the appropriate response is not simply denial. Every time the Chinese do this they reinforce the belief that they cannot be trusted. Which is not helpful in the global geopolitical context.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

You are completely missing the point which is that, as usual, our chinky friends tried to cover it up.

But did they need to, because from the EDF response below:

"EDF said there had been an increase in the concentration of certain noble gases in the primary circuit” That does not mean a catastrophic leak of radioactive material into the environment is imminent, as some media outlets would have you believe.

If like in the UK, the plant operators would have only had to inform the regulator. As this event whilst not been an every day occurrence is well known and planned for event (as detailed in my last post) and there are facilities in place to allow the reactor to continue to operate.

If this were to happen in the UK or France, and it does, do you hear about such an event on the news, no you do not. It is just reported to the respective regulators.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

If it's that innocuous, why bother?

Granted, once the news was out there, they could have approached it a lot differently. But lets be honest here for a moment, in countries where there have been far more serious nuclear reactor accidents (remember Windscale) they were not exactly quick to publicise the event, were they! Perhaps the Chinese took a leaf out of their book.

Originally Posted by lom

FACE!

Maybe you're right. We're all putting up with this Covid shit because they didn't want to lose face.

Except it's made them look like complete c u n t s.

Originally Posted by Listerman

In spite of what the doom mongers might have you believe, the reality of the situation is that one or more of the 60,000 fuel rods has a ruptured casing.

It wont be the first time and it certainly wont be last time this happens. In-spite of what the American media might have you believe this is a well known occurrence in Nuclear reactors throughout the world (particularly PWR's, due to the higher primary circuit operating pressures).

Furthermore, as these fission products (noble gases) are presently leaking into the primary circuit, which incidentally is located under multiple layers of containment. Hence, the chances of a radiation leak extending beyond the circuit is very low). These fission byproducts will now be removed by clean up facilities built into the primary loop circuit just for this purpose. These clean up facilities constantly remove/filter/and replace a proportion of the primary coolant charge, with this exact situation in mind.

The reactor is likely to continue operating with the fission byproduct clean up systems continuing to manage the situation, until such time as the operators can locate the leak, and can take the reactor offline for removal of the leaking fuel rod assembly. That is exactly how every other commercial nuclear reactor in the world operates, when such a situation as this happens, Chinese reactors are no different.

For an impartial assessment of the situation see here:


How serious is the nuclear power plant radiation leak in China? | New Scientist

So when were they going to tell us? My guess is when there would be to many glowing green Chinese people to continue covering it up.

Originally Posted by OhOh

But posts means Yuan/Satans.

How many do they give you for a defense post like this?

Originally Posted by lom

How many do they give you for a defense post like this?

I receive nothing for my posts from TD, possibly the odd sigh.

However, those that reply are noted and are accrued to my Durian buying rate. Offered by the many Thai/Chinese Durian buyers in Thailand.

Breaks the chain, so to speak.

As this article explains, nuclear safety leans heavily on transparency.

Why ... should anyone care about what happened? The main reason relates to the way the news has emerged.


Framatome first reached out to the U.​​​​​​S. Department of Energy last month warning of a potential issue at the plant, according to CNN’s report, adding that a company official described the incident as “an imminent radiological threat to the site and to the public” in a June 8 memo.

Meanwhile, China’s regulator, the National Nuclear Safety Administration, or NNSA, was increasing its mandatory limit on noble gas concentrations to keep the leak within safety parameters, according to CNN’s account of the memo; Framatome suspected this was being done to avoid shutting down the reactor.

Throughout this, the NNSA itself has remained silent. A nuclear safety monitoring website run by China’s Ministry of Ecology and Environment has no records of any problems with Taishan. The plant’s operator, China General Nuclear Power Corp., only said that “environmental indicators” at and around the plant are normal — a wording that doesn’t quite address the within-plant issues that EDF and Framatome are looking at.

That silence and careful choice of words is the real problem. Nuclear safety, like aviation safety, is generally pretty good — but to get that way, it depends on a paranoid regulatory culture that addresses the smallest problem with the maximum of attention and transparency. That doesn’t appear to be happening in this instance.

In both the Chernobyl and Fukushima disasters, the absence of such a culture within government regulators and power utilities was a key contributor to the incidents that followed, according to Najmedin Meshkati, a professor of engineering at the University of Southern California and expert on nuclear safety.

“The combination of these two things can make or break a nuclear power industry in any country,” he said. The Taishan incident “should be an awakening for China to learn the lessons from Chernobyl and Fukushima, and do some soul-searching.”

China accounts for more than 10% of the world’s nuclear power production, and about a third of the new plants under construction worldwide.

For the health of its population, and its ability to decarbonize the world’s most polluting power grid, the government needs to ensure the atomic energy sector is run in a way that puts safety and transparency above political and public-relations concerns. *** Fixing that should be just as much a priority as replacing Taishan’s broken fuel rods.

China's Nuclear Power


*** And we know from Covid the chinkies would rather cover things up and ignore the risks.

/\ Harry, as I already said. The Chinese could of and should of handled the situation differently once it was widely known about.

Secrecy and obfuscation in civil nuclear operators all over the world is nothing new, so the Chinese are by no means unique in this respect.

This was obviously an opportunity too good to miss by the 'China bashers' to try and portray this into something it was not, and even you must see (as someone who stood on top of one of the experimental reactors at Harwell). That the Framatom statement was was clearly massaged by CNN into something very different to what it was originally, possibly to suit an anti Chinese agenda?

Originally Posted by Listerman

/\ Harry, as I already said. The Chinese could of and should of handled the situation differently once it was widely known about.

Secrecy and obfuscation in civil nuclear operators all over the world is nothing new, so the Chinese are by no means unique in this respect.

The fact that an operator had to express their concerns to the US in the first place is what you should be focusing on.

Have you had your vaccination against the Wuhan virus yet?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The fact that an operator had to express their concerns to the US in the first place is what you should be focusing on.

Firstly Framatom is not an operator, according to their website they are a "Designer and supplier of nuclear steam supply system and nuclear equipment, services and fuel for high levels of safety and performance"

Notice the word 'fuel' in that statement, if it subsequently transpires that they had a hand in the design of the fuel rod assemblies, it starts to look somewhat different, in that this fuel rod failure has so far been implied to be a wholly Chinese problem. If so it may explain why they 'reached out' to the Americans for reasons that have yet to be fully understood.

Secondly from the Framatom website, you can now clearly see that they have stated otherwise "June 14, 2021 – Framatome is supporting resolution of a performance issue with the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant in Guangdong Province, China.

According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters.


Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

Information related to Taishan’s reactor number 1

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Have you had your vaccination against the Wuhan virus yet?

You will get no purchase deploying the Ad-Hominen approach on me, you merely succeed in devaluing any merit your argument even further.

Originally Posted by Listerman

You will get no purchase deploying the Ad-Hominen approach on me, you merely succeed in devaluing any merit your argument even further.

Harry has a habit of digging holes deeper, so don't expect too much.

Actually he's a little China-Syndrome to be

Very nasty of you, Listerman, to know what you are talking about

Originally Posted by Listerman

Firstly Framatom is not an operator, according to their website they are a "Designer and supplier of nuclear steam supply system and nuclear equipment, services and fuel for high levels of safety and performance"

Notice the word 'fuel' in that statement, if it subsequently transpires that they had a hand in the design of the fuel rod assemblies, it starts to look somewhat different, in that this fuel rod failure has so far been implied to be a wholly Chinese problem. If so it may explain why they 'reached out' to the Americans for reasons that have yet to be fully understood.

Secondly from the Framatom website, you can now clearly see that they have stated otherwise "June 14, 2021 – Framatome is supporting resolution of a performance issue with the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant in Guangdong Province, China.

According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters.


Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

Information related to Taishan’s reactor number 1



You will get no purchase deploying the Ad-Hominen approach on me, you merely succeed in devaluing any merit your argument even further.

1. It's Framatome not Framatom.

2. "after a French company that part owns and helps operate it warned of an "imminent radiological threat"

Now let's keep irrelevant pedantry out of it, shall we?

The reason they brought it to the attention of a third party is because our chinky friends tried to cover it up and raised safety thresholds around the plant - not the actions of a transparent body.

The reason I asked you if you'd had your Wuhan virus vaccine was to point out that you would probably wouldn't need it if they weren't so paranoid about public criticism to the point of hiding a dangerous virus.

Why are you so forgiving that they would try and cover things up AGAIN?

Originally Posted by helge

Harry has a habit of digging holes deeper, so don't expect too much.

Actually he's a little China-Syndrome to be

Very nasty of you, Listerman, to know what you are talking about

Oh look the simpering fuckwit is here.

Lets see what the IAEA has to say-


China Informs IAEA that Taishan NPP is in Normal Condition, Says No Radiation Release or Environmental Concern


The China Atomic Energy Authority (CAEA) updated the IAEA today about an issue at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant (NPP). CAEA said the plant is in normal condition and that operational safety is guaranteed. Unit 1 of the plant recently experienced a minor fuel rod cladding failure, which resulted in increased radioactivity in the unit’s primary reactor coolant, it said. CAEA said that this situation, as a common phenomenon in NPP operations, is dealt with in accordance with accepted standards and procedures. According to on-site monitoring and an expert assessment, the unit’s performance indicators, including the radioactivity of the primary reactor coolant, remain within the range of normal conditions and technical specifications, CAEA said. It also said the reactor unit’s coolant system pressure boundary is intact and that containment integrity is maintained. Continuous environmental radiation monitoring confirms that there has been no radiation release and that there is no environmental concern, CAEA said. The IAEA remains in contact with CAEA.

China Informs IAEA that Taishan NPP is in Normal Condition, Says No Radiation Release or Environmental Concern | IAEA


Nothing to see here then.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Oh look the simpering fuckwit is here.

Hello, DIGBY

One for 'arry. This from the Chinese AEA.

Xi, Putin to launch nuclear energy projects

President Xi Jinping and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin will take part in an online ceremony on Wednesday to launch construction of nuclear energy projects, as the two countries intensify cooperation amid the global economic downturn caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

　　At a news conference on Tuesday, Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said that Xi and Putin will use the event to conduct their first online exchanges this year, which are important to guiding high-level development of the China-Russia comprehensive strategic partnership of coordination for a new era.

　　Nuclear energy cooperation has been a priority for the partnership.

　　In June 2018, China National Nuclear Corp and Russia's State Atomic Energy Corporation agreed to jointly build the No 7 and No 8 power units at the Tianwan Nuclear Power Plant in Lianyungang, Jiangsu province, and the No 3 and No 4 power units at the Xudabu Nuclear Plant in Huludao, Liaoning province.

　　Xi and Putin witnessed the signing of the 20 billion yuan ($3.1 billion) deal, which is the biggest cooperation project on nuclear energy between the two nations.

　　The construction of the joint projects comes as the two countries celebrate the 20th anniversary of their signing of the Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation between China and Russia.

　　It also takes place as China is taking steps toward achieving peak carbon dioxide emissions before 2030 and carbon neutrality by 2060. China has vowed to improve its industrial structure and energy mix. While promoting clean and efficient use of coal, it is also developing new energy sources and has taken steps toward developing nuclear energy while ensuring its safe use.

　　Construction of the four power units demonstrates the major achievements of China-Russia cooperation in the fields of high-end manufacturing and scientific and technological innovation. It will also help the two countries upgrade pragmatic cooperation in other fields, Zhao said.

　　Stressing nuclear energy is clean and highly efficient, Zhao said using it will help reduce carbon dioxide emissions while demonstrating China's resolve to achieve its carbon emissions targets, which a responsible major country should pursue.

　　Besides their close communication and coordination in international affairs, economic cooperation between China and Russia has also gained momentum in recent years. Trade volume between the two countries reached $107.8 billion last year despite the pandemic, the third consecutive year the figure exceeded $100 billion.

Xi, Putin to launch nuclear energy projects as recovery efforts intensify (caea.gov.cn)


Chinas answer to carbon emissions and global warming is to go full nuke.