Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 98
  1. #51
    Thailand Expat
    Farang Ky Ay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Online
    03-01-2022 @ 12:29 AM
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    2,081
    ^ Can't green you but you made very good points. The bank should be liable as the fraudulent activities were performed by its' employee (s) in its premises, using the Bank resources.

  2. #52
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    96,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Have you got a cancerous tumour in your brain?
    Don't worry SA, you have absolutely no risk of that.

  3. #53
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,054
    3.5% / month.

    not laying all the blame with them, but these guys are definitely rubes.

  4. #54
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on my way
    Posts
    11,453
    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    3.5% / month.
    which with a rolling interest = 50% per year. How could they not want that

  5. #55
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    22-03-2024 @ 05:28 PM
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post

    When a bona fide representative of the bank uses its premises and trimmings to commit fraud against customers or their accounts, the bank must be responsible for any and all losses.

    Let's move closer home . If a cashier uses her access to bank data, procedures and facilities to loot your account, would you simply write it off?
    No . In the UK I would not simply write it off . But Thailand is different in a thousand ways . You know that Laws are applied differently to fallangs . You know that . EVERYONE knows that ! It's wrong but it's also true . So the Thais in authority here will certainly look for a way not to pay out .

    YOU asked about a cashier looting your account . But that is not what happened here . False Accounts were set up . The money was never in the possession of Kasikorn . The method used was crude and it all stinks but its more like being stopped by a fake Police Officer using a stolen ID Card and a stolen Police car . Everything looks genuine . But its not . Someone can steal YOUR identity jabir and steal your mail with Letterheads and everything ! Then take out a Mortgage in your name . Disappear with the cash . This happens every single day .

    Operating from his Office was another layer of fraud - but HE committed the Fraud . Not Kasikorn .

    Bernie Madoff said people could only join his Scheme by invitation . It was all to be private and secretive . ( Not his genuine trading .... the Ponzi which he operated from a separate set of offices ) . Similarly this Thai guy told people the whole thing was not to be advertised around . People LIKE that ! They like being in a privileged circle of investors . And it makes it all so much easier for the Operator of the scam .

    I have no affection for Kasikorn . But Kasikorn will also suffer from this . And Kasikorn did not operate the scam . If I employ you jabir and you sit in my office and scam someone then its YOU that goes to jail and gets ordered to pay compensation . Not me . I just fire you and punch you in the face on your way out for all the damage you did to my name .

  6. #56
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,009
    ^^
    I wonder how many of them are familiar with what Einstein described as the 8th wonder of the world, compound interest.


  7. #57
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,009
    We can agree to disagree, just a few thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    No . In the UK I would not simply write it off . But Thailand is different in a thousand ways . You know that Laws are applied differently to fallangs . You know that . EVERYONE knows that ! It's wrong but it's also true . So the Thais in authority here will certainly look for a way not to pay out .
    Difficult to believe that if your 800k immigration fund were to vanish overnight you would wipe your mouth and restore your account balance to the required amount, the while justifying silence with your excellent understanding of how Thailand works. I don't believe that for one moment, but will give you the benefit of no doubt.


    YOU asked about a cashier looting your account . But that is not what happened here . False Accounts were set up . The money was never in the possession of Kasikorn . The method used was crude and it all stinks but its more like being stopped by a fake Police Officer using a stolen ID Card and a stolen Police car . Everything looks genuine . But its not . Someone can steal YOUR identity jabir and steal your mail with Letterheads and everything ! Then take out a Mortgage in your name . Disappear with the cash . This happens every single day .
    I'm familiar with identity theft and fraud, having written a manual on it and also as a victim. It does not apply here. The fake cop in your example could threaten you, and so could a mugger or a real cop, but moving the discussion to fakes makes no point at all; in this case it was a real bank manager with intimate knowledge of how things work in a real bank using real bank props and documentation. No smoke and mirrors, no false moustache.

    Combine this with your earlier example of picking up a bank phone to tell your mate the thug to kill someone or send out bomb threats, which could be done from any phone or location, and it's beginning to feel like you're throwing stuff out hoping some sticks.


    Operating from his Office was another layer of fraud - but HE committed the Fraud . Not Kasikorn.
    Precisely, he committed the fraud, which could not have been done without the bank's frontage and an entire production crew being at most generous blind or stupid or complicit, and untrained to identify what every account describes as overt suspicious activity. If the staff were not corrupt but simply inept or gullible, then customers should not be held to a higher standard. Otoh if they were all in on it...we're talking about a major bank, not the corner shop that palms you off with expired beetroot which left a friend believing he was at death's door last week.


    Bernie Madoff said people could only join his Scheme by invitation . It was all to be private and secretive . ( Not his genuine trading .... the Ponzi which he operated from a separate set of offices ) . Similarly this Thai guy told people the whole thing was not to be advertised around . People LIKE that ! They like being in a privileged circle of investors . And it makes it all so much easier for the Operator of the scam .
    Madoff pissed off the wrong people and he will pay by dying in jail. While this secrecy angle may be interesting as a footnote, he was not the inventor so I can't imagine why you give him the credit; and I'm also wondering where this fits into what we're discussing since it has zero bearing on the bank's liabilities. Fwiw I don't think it was particularly bright of him to use this secrecy thing; anyone with half a brain would have it lighting up if a bank manager told them here's a good thing, legit, direct from head office, but just for you so don't tell anyone else.

    But seeing as you brought it up, all frauds employ psychology in some form or other. The psychology used in this case could not have worked without the backdrop and physical properties of a real bank, garnished with confidence in his position of authority.


    I have no affection for Kasikorn . But Kasikorn will also suffer from this . And Kasikorn did not operate the scam . If I employ you jabir and you sit in my office and scam someone then its YOU that goes to jail and gets ordered to pay compensation . Not me . I just fire you and punch you in the face on your way out for all the damage you did to my name .
    Fair enough, so despite my repeated assertion that victims should resort to any and all legal and peaceful means to recover their monies, you believe KBank should send its boys round to beat him up. Good that we know your position.

  8. #58
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    96,552
    Supposedly you can make complaints about banks here but fuck knows if it would make any difference... probably not.

    Ombudsman Thailand

  9. #59
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    96,552
    Kasikorn made nigh on Bt30 BILLION profit last year, so it should not be difficult to refund customers and therefore establish a level of trust with current and future customers... they can look to get back what they can from their rogue employee.

    Given their utter inaction over this, were I a Kasikorn customer, even one unaffected by this particular scam, I would have already closed my account and moved my money to another bank (or banks).

    I simply wouldn't take the risk that another employee of this bank would help themselves to my assets and that the bank would essentially say "tough shit it's not our problem", which is exactly what they are doing when it patently IS.

    I have yet to see anyone online complain that they were victims of this scam. Then again if they fell for it, the chances are they are too stupid to use a computer.

  10. #60
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    30-04-2022 @ 02:44 AM
    Posts
    11,204
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Its a good scam. I am impressed.
    It's not. It's completely amateur hour. Of course you would be impressed.

    My son got ripped off on Roblox by someone who promised him blah blah blah so he handed over 200 Robox and the guy ran away, Does that impress you too?

  11. #61
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,009
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Supposedly you can make complaints about banks here but fuck knows if it would make any difference... probably not.

    Ombudsman Thailand
    Yes, Thailand has all the frills, ombudsmen, consumer protection, compliance officers, auditors, human rights, law courts, and a stream of regulators; they mimic the west even with elections and a free press that knows what's good for them.

  12. #62
    Thailand Expat
    Shutree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 06:14 PM
    Location
    One heartbeat away from eternity
    Posts
    4,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    False Accounts were set up . The money was never in the possession of Kasikorn .
    Usually I feel no sympathy for greedy and gullible investors who expect unrealistic profits and get ripped off. In this case I feel differently. If I walked into my bank and the manager stopped to point out their advertised 'special deal' and gave me credible paperwork in return for a deposit, then maybe I'd be taken in, especially if I was under the misunderstanding that the promised interest rate was annual. If the manager told me it was monthly then certainly I'd laugh in his face, others apparently didn't.

    There is very much we don't know about how the fraud was perpetrated. I see reference to counterfeit or outdated passbooks, it is not clear exactly what documentation the victims received and how that documentation was produced. The victims must have received some proof of deposit, chopped and signed and computer printed. Possibly those deposits went into Kasikorn accounts controlled by the culprit. I don't suppose the manager walked home with sackfuls of cash. Possibly some of the loot is still in the bank. Only the bank knows.

    Whatever happened there were clear control failures at Kasikorn. Of course, being a bank, they will use their deep pockets to tie up the victims in interminable civil court actions rather than do the morally decent thing and accept any liability. It could drag on for years, all the while the bank will hold on to the funds that they didn't exactly steal but which they know to be stolen.

    It is not the principal job of the police to trace the missing money. My bet is that a piece of it actually is still in the possession of Kasikorn.

  13. #63
    Thailand Expat
    aging one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    22,631
    As has been said it seems most of the guys went the Thai way and let their wives or significant others handle their banking and bills. It seems to have worked for a long time before the proverbial shit hit the fan. But I know I would for sure have asked one question. "How much interest are we getting at the bank". If the answer was 3.5 % a month alarm bells should have rung loudly. Lots of alcohol consumed by these old expats down in Pattaya could well be one of the causes that question was never asked.

  14. #64
    Thailand Expat
    Shutree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 06:14 PM
    Location
    One heartbeat away from eternity
    Posts
    4,658
    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post
    As has been said it seems most of the guys went the Thai way and let their wives or significant others handle their banking and bills. It seems to have worked for a long time before the proverbial shit hit the fan. But I know I would for sure have asked one question. "How much interest are we getting at the bank". If the answer was 3.5 % a month alarm bells should have rung loudly. Lots of alcohol consumed by these old expats down in Pattaya could well be one of the causes that question was never asked.
    The Bankgkok Post mentioned that many of the farangs had retirement deposits at the bank and had known the manager for years. Perhaps he was able to cherry pick the most promising targets.
    The Post also mentioned that they had bank books, it was only when some tried to update them at other branches that the inconsistencies were noted.
    Being old, sozzled, unaware or stupid, or all of these things, doesn't provoke a lot of sympathy but these people were clearly vulnerable and that makes this fraud particularly despicable IMHO.

  15. #65
    Thailand Expat
    aging one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    22,631
    ^ Agreed. I will avoid stereotyping their wives as well.

  16. #66
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    22-03-2024 @ 05:28 PM
    Posts
    2,332
    Like I've already said .... it stinks . It STINKS .
    But I don't see a difference between this corrupt piece of schitt and a Policeman who pulls you over for nothing at all and just holds your license while he's waiting for his ' tea money ' .
    Or the Local Official who charges a Thai 2000 Baht to formalise his Residence Documentation but charges a Farang 10 000 when its a fixed 2000 charge .
    It's all corruption .
    I TOTALLY TOTALLY feel sorry for the Farangs who have been done here . But my best friend in Thailand was conned out of 30 Million Baht ..... by his girlfriend ....... who could only do it with cooperation from officials at the Registration Office.
    He never saw a Baht back .
    I do feel sorry for them . I do . But I also feel they could have acted with more caution .
    It's a much-used phrase ..... but we all DO know that if it looks too good to be true then it damn well probably is .



    w.

  17. #67
    Thailand Expat
    strigils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    cerne abbas
    Posts
    2,080
    The thing that i find staggering is that the idiots perpetrating the fraud seem oblivious to the fact that the first rule of fraud is this:

    Do it big, do it quick and get the fuk out

    and that was told to me by a fairly senior fraud investigator back in the 80s, and no it wasn't part of my rehabilitation programme.

  18. #68
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    30-04-2022 @ 02:44 AM
    Posts
    11,204
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    as I was preparing my protest to the SET,

    Angry readers letters to the Sun dont much sway the SET

  19. #69
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,251
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    It's not. It's completely amateur hour. Of course you would be impressed.

    My son got ripped off on Roblox by someone who promised him blah blah blah so he handed over 200 Robox and the guy ran away, Does that impress you too?
    No moron. The vast majority of ponzi schemes are wealth managers and fund operators. All ponzi schemes are stupidly simple.

    This guy is a step above because he used a retail bank.

  20. #70
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Usually I feel no sympathy for greedy and gullible investors who expect unrealistic profits and get ripped off. In this case I feel differently. If I walked into my bank and the manager stopped to point out their advertised 'special deal' and gave me credible paperwork in return for a deposit, then maybe I'd be taken in, especially if I was under the misunderstanding that the promised interest rate was annual. If the manager told me it was monthly then certainly I'd laugh in his face, others apparently didn't.

    .
    Exactly. Yet here we have KW saying that this scam was amateur hour. BTW I think they believed that the deposit period was monthly. Not the interest rate


  21. #71
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,251
    Here are some savings rates at Bangkok Bang

    5-Month Fixed Deposit
    Interest Rate 0.55% p.a.

    7-Month Fixed Deposit
    Interest Rate 0.625% p.a.

    So 3.5% p.a is high too. But not mental

  22. #72
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,009
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    No moron. The vast majority of ponzi schemes are wealth managers and fund operators. All ponzi schemes are stupidly simple.

    This guy is a step above because he used a retail bank.
    Sure he may be a cnut, but gotta credit him for the smarts to identify and conceive the plan using readily available props and resources, put together the elements, and the boldness to execute as a long term fraud in plain sight.

    No doubt the menagerie will feign outrage that anyone could say anything positive about a thief, but that's TD for you and here's some more idiot ammo.

    Another thief that impressed me enough to recall a lifetime later, was in the early computer days, the programmer that opened a bank account in the name of Zyzogivorski or something like that, and then programmed the bank's computer when calculating monthly interest to dump all fractions of a penny into the last chronological account. Real smart, he identified and exploited a weakness to construct a victimless crime using access and intimate knowledge of the system, through which he would enrich himself with a regular stream of millions of fractions of a penny. The bank wasn't a victim, since they rightly owed those fractions anyway, and none of the customers would ever miss the fractions that they never received anyway, because until then the computer simply dropped the fraction by rounding down. The perfect crime, and he could have earned billions from it over time, except for overlooking the unexpected, that some Pole might turn up to open an account with a name that starts with Zz...

  23. #73
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    on my way
    Posts
    11,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    So 3.5% p.a is high too. But not mental
    Not mental? You don't even get 3.5% p.a on a 5 years fixed account if you can find a Thai bank having one.

  24. #74
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,054
    ^
    he's incredibly stupid.

    he reads nonsense on reddit and the like ...misunderstands most of it....forgets key parts of it...and then woefully attempts to post about it here.

  25. #75
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    96,552
    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    ^
    he's incredibly stupid.

    he reads
    I think the problem is he doesn't.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •