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Thread: Duterte Afloat

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Duterte Afloat

    Philippines Building Up Fleet in South China Sea to Counter Chinese

    By Andreo Calonzo
    October 28, 2020, 12:08 PM GMT+7 Updated on October 28, 2020, 3:59 PM GMT+7
    Bloomberg.com


    “The likelihood of an accident increases tremendously” by deploying vessels in disputed waters, Locsin said. Photographer: Carlo Gabuco/Bloomberg

    The Philippines is taking a page out of China’s book by building up its own fleet that includes fishing boats in the South China Sea, the Southeast Asian nation’s top diplomat said.

    “We are swarming the areas because that’s the Chinese strategy-- to swarm the areas also with the fishing boats,” Foreign Affairs Secretary Teodoro Locsin said in an online discussion this week organized by Asia Society.

    “The likelihood of an accident increases tremendously” by deploying vessels in disputed waters, Locsin said. He also said the Philippines’ defense treaty with the U.S. will kick in if one of the country’s military vessels is hit, citing U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo’s assurance last year.

    China is willing to work with the Philippines and other Southeast Asian countries to uphold peace and stability in the South China Sea, said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin at a press briefing in Beijing on Wednesday, while maintaining Beijing’s historical claims in the disputed waters.

    President Rodrigo Duterte has recently leaned back toward the U.S. and toughened his stance against China. Last month in front of world leaders, he defended the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s 2016 ruling in favor of the Philippines that said Beijing’s expansive territorial claims in the South China Sea breached international law.

    The Philippine Navy is planning to deploy over 200 armed militiamen on motor boats to patrol the South China Sea, its chief Vice Admiral Giovanni Carlo Bacordo told Rappler earlier this month. Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, citing Duterte’s advice, however last week said the Southeast Asian nation may not have enough resources to send its own maritime militia.
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    What a flip flop

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...yep...the flip side of foreign policy...

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    Lone Monarchist
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    What a flip flop

    Nope. This is how a middle country should act. Play both sides off of each other. Give some here, take some there.

    Australia should watch and learn.

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Beijing’s historical claims in the disputed waters.
    . . . yes, they've been saying that for a while now, hence historical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Nope. This is how a middle country should act. Play both sides off of each other. Give some here, take some there.
    Ah . . . give some, take some. Give territory, riches etc... Take . . . scraps and debt. No wonder you're in the situation you're in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Australia should watch and learn.
    Learn what? To create a nation that has the second highest emigration rate after India because the country sucks in fairly well all categories? Learn how to be corrupt without peer? Learn how to have unending war in your own country? Breed a female population split between prostitution, nursing and housekeeping? Etc . . . ad infinitum.


    Yes, perhaps you should learn

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    . . . yes, they've been saying that for a while now, hence historical.


    Ah . . . give some, take some. Give territory, riches etc... Take . . . scraps and debt. No wonder you're in the situation you're in.


    Learn what? To create a nation that has the second highest emigration rate after India because the country sucks in fairly well all categories? Learn how to be corrupt without peer? Learn how to have unending war in your own country? Breed a female population split between prostitution, nursing and housekeeping? Etc . . . ad infinitum.


    Yes, perhaps you should learn
    Lol riches he says.

    There are no riches in these rocks sticking out of the south China sea. China is one of the biggest economies in the world. And only for China , do these rocks sticking out of the sea , have some value. China can use them to push the US navy back a bit. Which is what its doing.

    So the Philippines should not destroy it's relationship with China , for some useless rocks sticking out of the sea , that it will never have a good use for in a million years.

    And I know there's mineral rights in the area. Those don't amount to a hill of beans either.

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Lol riches he says.

    There are no riches in these rocks sticking out of the south China sea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    And only for China , do these rocks sticking out of the sea , have some value.
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    useless rocks sticking out of the sea , that it will never have a good use for in a million years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    And I know there's mineral rights in the area. Those don't amount to a hill of beans either.
    Sooooooo much stupid in one person . . .

    200 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, minimum
    213 billion barrels of oil, minimum
    ... among so much else.

    You really are the dumbest person on TD


    I can't even reply to that anymore, you're simply too dumb to fathom.


    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post
    You win, by far the biggest idiot on TD at this time.
    Last edited by panama hat; 29-10-2020 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Sooooooo much stupid in one person . . .

    200 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, minimum
    213 billion barrels of oil, minimum
    ... among so much else.

    You really are the dumbest person on TD


    I can't even reply to that anymore, you're simply too dumb to fathom.
    Bullshit. Total bullshit. Where did you get those numbers. It all sounds like riches to someone who's never been in the resource extraction business.

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    Why We Won’t See An Oil War In The South China Sea

    Barrels of ink have been spilled covering the geopolitical conflicts in the South China Sea over the past few years, with plenty of speculation over whether these diplomatic tensions could explode into genuine warfare as China pushes further and further into the territory. The disputed area includes both islands and maritime areas that are the subject of contentious claims on the part of Brunei, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam. The main source of these tensions has arisen from China’s continued military presence in foreign waters and dubious claims to land and sea that belong to other sovereign nations. The reason? The usual: oil.

    Contrary to the overheated rhetoric, countries do not actually ‘take the oil,’ to use President Trump’s controversial and inaccurate phrase.

    But while these oversteps and complex international tensions, which have only become exacerbated by the economic crisis spurred by the COVID-19 pandemic, have led to much speculation about an impending oil war, a foreign policy op-ed published by Lawfare this week says that these concerns are overblown.

    “Between 1912 and 2010, countries fought 180 times over territories that contained—or were believed to contain—oil or natural gas resources,” Meierding writes, citing specific clashes and so-called oil wars from World War II to the Falklands War. “However, a closer look at these conflicts reveals that none merits the classic ‘oil war’ label. Although countries did fight over oil-endowed territories, they usually fought for other reasons, including aspirations to regional hegemony, domestic politics, national pride, or the contested territories’ other strategic, economic, or symbolic assets. Oil was an uncommon trigger for international confrontations and never caused major conflicts.”

    Why We Won’t See An Oil War In The South China Sea | OilPrice.com

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    The South China Sea Dispute Isn't About Oil, At Least Not How You Think

    All too frequently the SCS dispute is framed as a militarized contest for access and control over an untold abundance of oil and gas thought to lie beneath the seabed. This “resource conflict” narrative overlooks the complex and dynamic geopolitical and strategic drivers at play, and misplaces the role of hydrocarbons. In terms of resource competition, disputes over fishing are far more frequent than those involving offshore drilling and are arguably more important. Indeed, on April 3, 2016 Vietnam seized a Chinese ship that intruded into its territorial waters carrying fuel to resupply a Chinese fishing fleet operating in the area.
    Applied to the SCS territorial dispute, the resource conflict narrative inverts the causal relationship between hydrocarbon development and the territorial disputes. Competition over offshore oil and gas resources is a component rather than the proximate cause of the territorial disputes between China and other claimants. The SCS dispute is about oil and gas resources to the extent that offshore developments are leveraged to assert or challenge territorial claims. China is not asserting expansive territorial claims and risking military confrontation with its neighbors (and potentially the United States) just to gain access and control of unproven oil and gas resources; instead, the development of offshore oil and gas resources is contested because it evokes sovereignty.

  11. #11
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    Google is your friend eh skidmark? Jesus you are tedious and so stupid.

    Duterte Afloat-thinktrygoogle-jpeg



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    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post
    Google is your friend eh skidmark? Jesus you are tedious and so stupid.




    I knew all along that it wasn't about oil despite the big talk in the media. But someone challenged my claim so then i used google to provide factual details

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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    I knew all along that it wasn't about oil despite the big talk in the media. But someone challenged my claim so then i used google to provide factual details
    Nowhere man please listen, you dont know what your missing...

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    Sure. China has built out one Island as a massive unsinkable aircraft carrier at tremendous cost because there is nothing to gain in that region. Makes all kind of sense, to some people.

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    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    So skidmark thinks there is nothing in this particular area other than potentially trillions of dollars of oil, gas and minerals, not to mention the fish....

    I think he's trying to knock klondyke off the top off the dunce tree.

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I think he's trying to knock klondyke off the top off the dunce tree.
    He posts more than Klondyke . . . so we get to see his utter idiocy more often

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    It all sounds like riches to someone who's never been in the resource extraction business.
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    200 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, minimum
    213 billion barrels of oil, minimum
    ... among so much else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Lol riches he says.

    There are no riches in these rocks sticking out of the south China sea.
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    200 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, minimum
    213 billion barrels of oil, minimum
    ... among so much else.


    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    I knew all along that it wasn't about oil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Sure. China has built out one Island as a massive unsinkable aircraft carrier at tremendous cost because there is nothing to gain in that region. Makes all kind of sense, to some people.

    I clearly stated the bloody exact reason why China is doing this. TO PUSH BACK THE US NAVY. China wants to assume the security responsibilities of this part of the sea.

    It has NOTHING to do with the mineral rights. And if you read the articles i posted about it, you'd see why mineral rights are being talked about.
    Last edited by Backspin; 30-10-2020 at 06:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    So skidmark thinks there is nothing in this particular area other than potentially trillions of dollars of oil, gas and minerals, not to mention the fish....

    I think he's trying to knock klondyke off the top off the dunce tree.
    Applied to the South China Sea territorial dispute, the resource conflict narrative inverts the causal relationship between hydrocarbon development and the territorial disputes.

    The SCS dispute is about oil and gas resources to the extent that offshore developments are leveraged to assert or challenge territorial claims.

    I still dont think anyone actually understands this

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    I still dont think anyone actually understands this
    Anyone but . . . you?


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    That will really alter the balance of power. Has anyone finally taught filipino fishermen how to swim yet?

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    ^many Filipino fishermen know how to swim, Sabang. My grandfather was a farmer/ fisherman, and at one point, my dad was too - he taught me how to swim. AFAIK my dad's siblings all knew how to swim - they had rivers and the sea nearby. The Filipinos who don't know how to swim (yes, there are many) are the ones who don't live near the sea/ river or those who don't have access or $$ for swimming lessons.

    Edit:
    Re: the SC Sea, it's a complicated issue. The past admin filed a case in the int'l court. There was a ruling in favor of PI, but China said they won't abide by it. The present gov't doesn't really want to antagonise China. There are lots of Chinese-led businesses, big & small, like the online casinos, construction, telecoms, etc. Then there's the issue of Chinese people overstaying their tourist visas here & working illegally. Then also the issue of Chinese ppl flooding the country via the retirement visa (SRRV).

    Link here
    PRA halts application processing amid influx of Chinese ‘retirees’
    Last edited by katie23; 30-10-2020 at 06:52 AM.

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    I lived for a short while, and owned a half share of a backpackers place in Sabang Katy. I got to know the people quite well- this was the late 80's thru' mid 90's. I was amazed that most of the fisherman in Sabang- a fishing village- had never been taught how to swim! I'm sure that must have improved, but talk about bahala na!

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    The 9 dash line, has nothing to do with oil and gas and everything to do with China saying, we are a great power, a nuclear power and we are a economic equal to the US. So we are going to take this part of the sea away from the US navy and provide the security and administration for it ourselves.


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    @sabang - yes, I know about your history in/ near Mindoro & Puerto Galera - you mentioned it in my PG thread. Your experience may be true in/ near PG, but it's not true for all Filipinos, or for my dad/ grandpa in his/ their hometown. My grandparents lived in a small coastal town - mountains on 1 side, sea on the other. People were usually farmer-fishermen. People learned how to swim by being thrown into the river - that's how my dad & his siblings learned. But yes, I know about the "bahala na" attitude.

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