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  1. #51
    CCBW JPPR2's Avatar
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    I have been sent many links from colleagues from the states and other locations about this event. Amazing how it has made big news and has been twisted to make it appear that the Thai Govt will arrest foreigners if they should happen to post a negative review. The story is much more complicated than just a simple poor review. Bottom line this guy (American or not) is an idiot. Writing a constructive negative review would not have brought on the legal action that he is facing now. I have no doubt that you can write a negative review about a business or a resort here if done professionally ( just like anywhere).

    Clearly he has and was offered numerous ways to negotiate and discuss his grievances and he kept on with his petty diatribe forcing the hand of the hotel. If this guy was in the states pulling this crap he would most likely be slapped with the same legal threats.

    He will now probably be deported and blacklisted. Price you pay for behaving like a schmuck. He should have said what he said and left it alone.

  2. #52
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    ^ The guy is an expat, not a tourist. The difference being it's easy to get an expat arrested, just wait until they need to renew their visa. If it had been a tourist who left the kingdom, there isn't much the resort could have done.
    That makes no difference whatsoever to the potential tourist.

    All they will see is "Thailand... bad tripadvisor review... jail/big fine".

  3. #53
    CCBW JPPR2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    That makes no difference whatsoever to the potential tourist.

    All they will see is "Thailand... bad tripadvisor review... jail/big fine".
    That's the message being sent unfortunately. My American colleague friends asked me about it. I told them while it appears to be seen that way you need to read the chain of events that lead up to the legal actions the hotel is suing the guy for. Nothing more to it than that. Just like anywhere as I said. You spew enough nonsense and are potentially hurting a business there will be backlash. Some guy did this in the states for a car dealership. Went on a bunch of sites trashing the place with no real facts and eventually he got slapped with a defamation lawsuit and he lost and cost him a bundle.

    People get pissed about things. There are ways to handle them in a manner that leads to a mutually acceptable resolution. This clown just couldn't shut his mouth and now he is paying the price.

    I have personally written a few travel reviews about resorts where I thought the service and accommodations were poor and not worth the money spent. I was never slapped with an arrest warrant or lawsuit. I was contacted by one of them and I explained what transpired and they offered me a free night and dinner voucher which I used and the 2nd visit was good.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    The story is much more complicated than just a simple poor review.
    He should have said what he said and left it alone.
    Fully agree. The thing is that a group of blokes down the pub (before 2200 hours, obviously) don't do 'complicated'. The keywords for them would be: Thailand, TripAdvisor, bad review, prison. What about Vietnam chaps? Clarkson reckoned it was great, ....

    It isn't surprising to see this pop up on the BBC. Remember a few years ago when their correspondent here, Jonathan Head, got hit with a defamation claim over a piece written for them? Payback time.

  5. #55
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Well, you can figure this news will blow over and be past history long before a reasonable New Normal tourist industry manifests itself.

    Right now I'm fairly certain any potential tourists are far more put off by the requirement of spending two solid weeks in a quarantine hotel before their vacation than they would be by worrying that they'll get arrested for writing a bad hotel review.

  6. #56
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    True enough.

  7. #57
    CCBW JPPR2's Avatar
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    @ Shutree and Bowie

    I agree whole heartedly with both your posts.

    If this guy was smart ( and clearly that is questionable) he would contact them to come to a resolution. It surely cannot be worth the fines, cost along with potentially being punted from the country and losing your job. For Christ sakes, It was just a hotel stay. Again I am surprised that it made headline news in the states and of course like almost all news it was totally tainted to sensationalize it and like Shutree said. "Write bad review, Go to Jail, Thailand is a bad country" was the message people read

    Honestly the Thai government is not involved. The hotel filed a claim and the police arrested the guy and it is with Lawyers.

  8. #58
    Thailand Expat

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    It surely cannot be worth the fines, cost along with potentially being punted from the country and losing your job.
    He was arrested at his workplace, I'd say that job is gooooooooooone.

  9. #59
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    I have owned several properties listed with Tripadvisor. You are dealing with the general public where 1 in 6 suffer from some form of mental illness and 14 out of 100,000 (USA stats) kill themselves annually. It's hardly surprising you occasionally come up against undeserved comments, both good and bad.

    I've had a Chinese family complain bitterly about the "old furniture" in a Regency townhouse property. The Chinese hated the restored Howard and Sons armchairs. I should have gone to IKEA instead. Another negative review was from a family who booked a 5 bedroom property for 2 pax occupancy and turned up with 12 people in three cars.

    It's the "wisdom of crowds". As a hospitality provider you have to take the rough with the smooth.

    Koh Chang looks like a typical chinless Thai business owner of the "do you know my daddy is" variety. Mummy never told him off and his farcical position in the Thai hierarchy has spared him from accountability for his actions ever since.

    Maybe the American was a jerk. You get it all the time in the hospitality business. Nevertheless that's the nature of the game. The Koh Chang owner should stick to pineapple farming or running a tuk tuk . He's clearly unsuited to any kind of hospitality business.

  10. #60
    Thailand Expat armstrong's Avatar
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    Kill and rape a few farang tourists and everything's fine but you expect tourists to not come because of possible trouble over a bad review?

    By the time tourists can come back this will be well buried.

    Much like the murdered tourists...

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by armstrong View Post
    Kill and rape a few farang tourists and everything's fine but you expect tourists to not come because of possible trouble over a bad review?

    By the time tourists can come back this will be well buried.

    Much like the murdered tourists...
    Probably the best post I've seen in years. Kudos, sir!

  12. #62
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    US man avoids jail in Thailand over bad resort review

    A US man in Thailand who was arrested for writing a negative hotel review will avoid legal action and jail time.

    Wesley Barnes had posted several reviews allegedly accusing the Sea View Resort of "modern day slavery".

    He was subsequently detained and charged under Thailand's strict anti-defamation laws.

    Police said Mr Barnes and the resort had managed to reach an agreement, which included an apology to the hotel and to Thailand's tourism authority.

    Colonel Kitti Maleehuan, superintendent of the Koh Chang police station - the island where the resort is located - told the AFP news agency that both parties had met over a mediation session overseen by police.

    US man avoids jail in Thailand over bad resort review - BBC News

  13. #63
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    So they win. Cue Photos of sad farang wanker handing over basket and wai'ing to a bunch of useless, smug, fucking jobsworths.

  14. #64
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    In the four-point agreement, Mr Barnes would issue a formal and sincere apology to the hotel and its staff and have it published in all media outlets that reported the dispute.

    He will also send a separate apology to the Trat provincial tourism office for causing negative effects on the province's tourism sector and inform the American embassy of the facts surrounding the dispute.

    Mr Barnes would also contact TripAdvisor to explain why he faced the defamation complaint over his negative reviews and ask the website to remove the "Red Badge" from the hotel review page. He was expected to fulfil the agreement by Oct 30, after which the hotel would withdraw the defamation complaint against him.

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1998927/american-to-say-sorry-for-bad-reviews

  15. #65
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    He was held in custody for two nights after his wife failed to file bail before the end of office hours.


    https://wwwbangkokpostcom/thailand/g...views]American to say sorry for bad reviews


    This is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Arrested for a TripAdvisor review!
    not really when you consider what drives the emotions of the thai.


    1. Ego orientation

    Taken from: Suntaree Komin, Psychology of the Thai People: Values and Behavioral Patterns, National Institute of Development Administration (NIDA), Bangkok 1991, ISBN 974-85744-8-2, pp. 1-2. References and tables are available in the original. Typing errors edited.


    The Thai are first and foremost ego oriented, characterized by the highest ego value of being Independent-being oneself (Pen tua khong tua eng), and a very high value of Self esteem.

    Closer inspection reveals that it is constantly ranked top priority, with the exception of farmers who ranked it relatively low (8th) among all Thai groups.

    Thai people have a very big ego, a deep sense of independence, pride and dignity.

    They cannot tolerate any violation of the “ego” self. Despite the cool and calm front, they can be easily provoked to strong emotional reactions, if the “self” or anybody close to the “self” like one’s father or mother, is insulted. There are countless numbers of examples in the media, where people can readily injure or kill another person for seemingly trivial insults.

    Take for example, at a party in which the host was celebrating his winning the black-market lottery (Huey tai din), a guest (guest A) was getting impatient for the delayed local puppet show (Nang talung) and started making noises. Angry when he was reprimanded by another guest (guest B), he yelled at guest B to mind his own business. Apparently, guest B’s big ego cannot take guest A’s remark, he beated A’s head with a whisky bottle, and gunned him down right between his eyes (Matichon, January 3, 1991).

    Another similar example (reported in Bangkok Post two years ago) occurred in Los Angeles, when a Thai musician shot a Laotian to death, after he finished playing his guitar with the Laotian and his friends sitting with their feet on the table pointing at him while listening to his playing.

    Last was the case of former Deputy Prime Minister General Chavalit Yongjaiyuth who promptly resigned from the Cabinet in June 1990, after PM’s Office Minister Police Captain Chalerm Yoobamrung criticized General Chavalit’s wife as a “walking jewellery case” in public. This incident triggered off the Supreme Commander General Sunthorn Kongsompong to defend the former Army C-in-C’s dignity by demanding the Prime Minister to remove Chalerm. The sequence of these overt conflicts finally led to the resignation of the Prime Minister in December 9, 1990. Although Prime Minister Chatichai reshuffled his Cabinet, the open rift with the military elite was irreparably widened. And eventually it led to another coup d’etat on February 23, 1991, driven the prime Minister to exile in England and Chalerm in Denmark.





    Basically, it boils down the question of “face” and “dignity”.

    Violation to the “ego” self cannot be tolerated. Numerous examples can be found everyday to illustrate this important value orientation.

    This ego orientation also explains the reasons of many examples of foreign bosses’ complaints about their uncooperative attitudes and behaviours—the passive “silent boycott”—of their Thai employees. Further inspection has found that in fact, for example, the foreign boss did not realize his frustrated exclamation like “Damn it” in front of his Thai employee was mistaken as swearing or reprimanding the Thai employee himself. Or, the boss’ statements of unsatisfied job outcomes are taken personally. And dissatisfactions are usually demonstrated by silent boycott or at best, passive cooperation.

    This value finding confirms the intuitive feeling of the Thai, and disproves Herbert Phillips’ statement about the emotionless Thai who, due to low expectations about events or people, “rarely live at, or even reach, a high emotional pitch” (Philipps, 1965, p. 60).

    Because the Thai are quite emotional when their dignity is slighted or provoked. This is why many analyses using Buddhist influence to explain about the Thai being so gentle, ever-smiling, non-aggressive, affable and have high tolerance vor uncertainty, fail to explain the sudden emotional outburst of Thai behaviour.

    Incidents of violent actions ranging from breaking up of relations, verbal and physical fights, to killing, can be found both in the less religious urban Thai as well as in the more religious oriented rural Thai, and more so with the hooligan (Nak-leng) class who can easily be provoked with just a non-verbal stare.

    Since the “ego” of the Thai is so important, it naturally follows that the Thai have the “avoidance mechanism” to fend off unnecessary clashed. And this intricate mechanism is delicately and keenly observed by all parties involved in an interaction. It is only in cases where indirect means are not used that interactions will result in negative feelings and emotional outburst if provoked in public. Therefore, using the “Buddhism-explain-all” blanket approach, that Buddhism teaches non-self, avoidance of emotional extremes, detachment, etc., might have missed quite a bit of reality.

    This “ego” orientation is the root value underlying various key values of the Thai, such as “face-saving”, “criticism-avoidance”, and the Kreng jai attitude which roughly means “feeling considerate for another person, not want to impose or cause other person trouble, or hurt his/her feelings”. The “face” is identical with “ego” and is very sensitive. Since the Thai give tremendous emphasis on “face” and “ego”, preserving one another’s “ego” is the basic rule of all Thai interactions both on the continuum of familiarity-unfamiliarity, and the continuum of superior-inferior, with difference only in degree.

    Even a superior would also observe not to intrude too much of the subordinate or the inferior’s ego. For a Thai, this is not something to be taken for granted. They intuitively observe this root or interpersonal social roles. Each knows his appropriate role, appropriate means to handle interactions when roles come into contact, and how far one can go, and so on. Countless numbers of events and situations can be cited to illustrate this theme.





    “Face-Saving” Value

    As a result of the top concern for “ego”, whenever there is any problem to be solved that would directly or indirectly involve persons, the first criteria to consider is saving the “face”—the “ego”—of the person involved. The Thai would usually find the indirect ways to soften the negative message.

    Most important is to avoid public confrontation, regardless of whether it involves an inferior, an equal, and worst still a superior. To make a person lose “face”, regardless of ranks, is to be avoided at all cost.

    The conflict between the Prime Minister and the military was again the matter of “face” and “dignity”, when the Prime Minister after promised the military in public to sack Minister Chalerm failed to do so, the military top commanders then boycotted the regular weekly breakfast meeting with the Prime Minister on Wednesday, on the pretence that they had colds or sudden matters in the provinces to attend to, etc.

    In a culture of high “ego orientation”, being absent from a weekly breakfast of the case in point was highly meaningful. The intended meaning expressed was “We are angry with you, because you have intentionally slighted us”. One thing that is certain is, that all those violations of “face” can hardly be said to have occurred without intention.



    “Criticism-Avoidance” Value

    The Thai are very “ego” oriented, to the extent that it is very difficult for the Thai to dissociate one’s idea and opinion from the “ego” self. This is why strong criticism to the expressed ideas, is often automatically taken as criticism to the person holding those ideas.

    This characteristic has been observed by some anthropologists. For example, Mulder stated that “criticism of whatever type is therefore a social affront and insult of the person” (Mulder, 1979, p. 171). However, Mulder used it so support his assumption that knowledge is equated with Phoo yai (superior, elder, authority-power figures). Therefore, to question knowledge or ideas is to question Phoo yai—the power—and thus, an insult. This is not true, the Thai would avoid criticising not just superior, but their equals, and to some extent, their inferiors as well.

    Such characteristic is deeply internalized. Even in academic seminars where intellectual criticism has a legitimate place, the Thai still try to avoid direct strong criticism if possible. If they really have to criticize as in the role of a critique, they often end up by hiding their toned-down criticisms in general and vaguely stated terms, for the person being criticized to figure out himself. And if the person truly wants comments, he can seek out the critique afterwards and discuss it in private.

    Foreign observers would rarely find heated debates or arguments or strong criticisms in Thai meeting of any nature. Therefore, Mulder’s analysis of Thai social scientists’ criticism-avoidance behaviour as caused by fear of the superior’s power over their chance of advancement, is not valid. His “power” framework cannot explain the same kind of social behaviour outside the realm of power.

    In fact, his own personal experience when he asked for criticism and feedback for his proposed theoretical framework from a number of Thai academicians is a good proof. He did not receive much feedback, as he stated in his Appendix.

    Certainly, those Thai academicians do not perceive Mulder as having “power” over their advancement and inhibit their academic criticism on his work when they were asked for. In general, criticism does not come out easily, unless one makes an effort to individually seek them out.



    Last edited by taxexile; 09-10-2020 at 03:17 PM.

  16. #66
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    tl:dr.

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