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  1. #151
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    I worked on a joint venture between the Malaysian and Keralan gov't a few years ago
    Any particular resource you helped them rape?

  2. #152
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Any particular resource you helped them rape?
    Kerala?

    Nah . . . rubber industry. Optimisation of existing operations.

    No rape of anything.

  4. #154
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Situation in eastern Ladakh unchanged, continues to be tense: Sources

    The overall situation at friction points in eastern Ladakh remains unchanged and continues to be tense, even as foreign ministers of India and China agreed on a five-point plan to resolve the prolonged border standoff a few days back.


    Sources also said both the Indian and Chinese troops are firmly holding onto their respective positions at the Line of Actual Control (LAC). And while the situation in the region continues to be tense, no fresh movement of Chinese troops was witnessed.




    The Indian Army will not lower its guard and will maintain the current state of very high-level of combat readiness in eastern Ladakh till there are visible changes in the ground situation, the sources added.


    The much-anticipated Corps commander-level talks are likely to take place in the next few days. The military talks are expected to focus on implementation of certain provisions of the five-point consensus to ease tensions.




    India and China reached an agreement to resolve their border row at a meeting between External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi in Moscow last Thursday on the sidelines of a Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) meet.


    The agreement included measures like quick disengagement of troops, avoiding action that could escalate tensions, adherence to all agreements and protocols on border management and steps to restore peace along the LAC.


    It also mentioned that the two sides should expedite work to conclude "new confidence building measures" to enhance peace and tranquillity in the border areas. The agreement has, however, not mentioned any timeline for disengagement of troops.


    Meanwhile, Chinese envoy Sun Weidong, referring to consensus reached during previous talks between leaders of the two countries, said both sides should "pursue win-win cooperation" instead of "zero-sum game".


    The envoy further said: "As long as the two sides keep moving the relationship in the right direction building on the previous achievements, there will be no difficulty or challenge that can't be overcome."


    The five-point consensus at the Jaishankar-Wang talks came days after a fresh confrontation between the two armies early last week in eastern Ladakh that triggered a massive military build up by both sides at almost all friction points along the LAC.


    The Indian Army and the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) have been locked in a tense standoff in multiple areas along the LAC in eastern Ladakh since early May. Shots were fired across the LAC on Monday last for the first time in 45 years with the two sides accusing each other of firing in the air.


    In the five rounds of the Corps commander-level talks, the Indian side has been insisting on immediate restoration of status quo ante in all areas of eastern Ladakh prior to April. The face-off in eastern Ladakh erupted on May 6.


    At the Jaishankar-Wang talks, the Indian delegation highlighted its strong concern over amassing of troops and military equipment by China along the LAC besides referring to "provocative behaviour" by Chinese army personnel at numerous incidents of friction.


    The Indian side clearly conveyed that it expected full adherence to all agreements on management of border areas and would not countenance any attempt to change the status quo unilaterally, according to the Ministry of External Affairs(MEA).


    Last week, the Army further bolstered its dominance over a number of strategic heights overlooking key Chinese-held positions around the Pangong lake area in eastern Ladakh.

    Situation in eastern Ladakh unchanged, continues to be tense: Sources, India News News | wionews.com

  5. #155
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Lhasa Braces For Air-Raid Drill as China Responds to India’s Purchase of French Jets

    Chinese authorities in Tibet’s regional capital Lhasa will conduct an air-raid drill on Saturday as China calls for combat readiness amid rising tensions along its undefined Himalayan border with India in the mountainous region of Ladakh.


    The drill, running from 12:00 noon to 12:15, follows India’s deployment on the border this week of five French-made Rafale jet fighters, and will be held “in order to improve the general public’s national defense concept and civil air defense awareness,” Chinese state media said on Tuesday.


    “Citizens, government agencies, enterprises, institutions, and social organization personnel” are being urged to pay close attention to alarms, China’s People’s Daily newspaper said on Tuesday, adding that the scheduled drill is not expected to disrupt the city’s normal life and activities.


    A clash between Indian and Chinese security forces in the Galwan Valley in northwestern India’s region of Ladakh in June left dozens of soldiers dead on both sides, with both India and China saying that troops from the other side had crossed into their territory.


    The governments of both countries meanwhile continue to accuse each other’s militaries of making provocative maneuvers along the Line of Actual Control, their de-facto Himalayan border.


    India had ordered and received the French-made jet fighters at the end of July “as it moves to upgrade its air force amid a spike in tensions with China,” Tsewang Dorjee—a researcher at the Dharamsala, India-based Tibet Policy Institute—told RFA’s Tibetan Service.


    “The air drill in Lhasa is aimed at strengthening combat readiness for [China’s] People’s Liberation Army in the event of an air strike in Lhasa or other Tibetan areas. This is a worrying and frightening situation for everyone, not only for Tibetans living in Tibet,” Dorjee said.


    China had already been holding air raid drills in other major cities in September to mark China’s annual National Defense Education Day, retired Indian Army colonel and satellite imagery analyst Vinanayak Bhatt said in a written response to questions from RFA.


    “But the timing of this drill has raised many eyebrows, as the last time such an exercise was carried out in Lhasa was in 2009,” he said.


    “In the current situation of the ongoing border standoff between China and India, this looks like a tactic of psychological warfare by Beijing to create a climate of fear among Tibetans,” he added.


    Dual-purpose airports


    Five airports are now in operation in the Tibet Autonomous Region: the Lhasa Gonggar Airport, Nyingchi Mainling Airport, Shigatse Peace Airport, Chamdo Bangda Airport, and Ngari Gunsa Airport. Three others—Lhuntze in Lhokha; Tingri in Shigatse county; and Burang in Ngari near the border with India—are being built.


    Tsewang Dorjee noted that the airport at Burang will pose a particular threat to India’s security due to its proximity to the border. “The Burang airport will play a key role in the speedy deployment of weapons and military reinforcements in the wake of any military confrontation with India,” Dorjee said.


    China’s airports in Tibet are dual-purpose and can quickly be deployed for military use, with civilian air control staff trained to work with China’s air force in cases of emergency, Vinanayak Bhatt said. “There are also a number of radar sites, and they have integrated air defense which is quite good.”


    As many as 16 air-defense sites using surface-to-air (SAM) missiles have recently been established along the border with Tibet, with one set up in the politically sensitive area of Lake Manasarovar near Mount Kailash in Burang, Bhatt said.


    “They are well aware that Manasarovar is a holy place for India, and yet they are trying to make a battlefield out of it. That is just not acceptable.”


    “But the Indian air force is a very mature air force,” Bhatt said. “I am sure they will be monitoring these things very closely, and they will take care of these sites very well.”

    Lhasa Braces For Air-Raid Drill as China Responds to India’s Purchase of French Jets

  6. #156
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    India-China border dispute: is Beijing’s latest stance pushing both sides to the brink of conflict?

    Even as India and China hold a flurry of talks to ease a months-long stand-off at their undemarcated 3,488km border, Beijing’s resurrection of an old claim line and its comments on the Himalayan region of Ladakh threaten to heighten suspicions and push both back to the brink of conflict, analysts say.


    On Tuesday, a day before Chinese and Indian diplomats held a regular meeting about their seven-decade-old border dispute, Beijing said it would abide only by a “very clear” border alignment first spelt out in 1959 by late Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai.

    The alignment, stated in Zhou’s letter to then-Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru on November 7, had proposed that “each withdraw 20 kilometres at once from the so-called McMahon Line in the east, and from the line up to which each side exercises actual control in the west”.

    The proposal, however, was rejected by Nehru and has since then also been rejected by subsequent Indian governments.

    India’s border with China spans the Karakoram mountain range in the north, to the trijunction with Myanmar in the east. In the west, the de facto border, separating Chinese-controlled Aksai Chin and Ladakh, is the Line of Actual Control (LAC) – known as the McMahon Line in India’s northeastern region, a relic of the colonial era.

    Joe Thomas Karackattu, an assistant professor in Chinese Studies at the Indian Institute of Technology-Madras, said that accepting the Chinese 1959 proposal would have meant an estimated loss of “over 6,000 square miles” of territory for India.

    Instead, India had its own alignment that it upheld, which shifted the border significantly eastward, overlapping Chinese claims, Karackattu said.

    So bitter were the Chinese and Indian differences that they led to the 1962 war and a series of military skirmishes, with the two countries suspending diplomatic ties until 1978.

    But as diplomatic ties were slowly re-established, both softened their positions, said Karackattu, whose recent paper – The Corrosive Compromise of the Sino-Indian Border Management Framework: From Doklam to Galwan, published in the Asian Affairs journal – maps out the way the neighbours have shifted their perceptions of the alignments over the last two centuries.

    “In the late 1980s and through the 1990s, both sides had agreed there would be some kind of a joint working group that could clarify the alignment of the LAC, a more congenial position for both to adopt,” he said.

    But China’s comments on Tuesday, made to India’s Hindustan Times via a Chinese foreign ministry statement, suggested the consensus had dissipated for the first time in decades.

    “The China-India border LAC is very clear: that is the LAC on November 7, 1959. China announced it in the 1950s, and the international community including India are also clear about it,” Hindustan Times quoted the Chinese foreign ministry statement saying.

    The same day, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin described India’s designation of Ladakh as a centrally-administered territory – a decision made last year when New Delhi separated the mountainous region from Jammu and Kashmir – as “illegal”. Wang also objected to infrastructure construction for the “purposes of military control” in the area.


    Anurag Srivastava, India’s Ministry of External Affairs spokesman, swiftly rejected the Chinese statement. “India has never accepted the so-called unilaterally defined 1959 LAC,” he said. “This position has been consistent and well known, including to the Chinese side.”


    The issue was not referred to in the Wednesday meeting, where both sides agreed to maintain “close consultations” at the diplomatic and military level.

    Retired Lieutenant General Rakesh Sharma, who commanded the Fire and Fury Corps responsible for the Ladakh region in 2013, said Beijing’s reiteration of its 1959 position did little to ease tensions that have sharply escalated since violent, fatal skirmishes between troops in May and June sparked a build-up of positions at several points along the LAC.


    Rajiv Bhatia, a former Indian ambassador and now distinguished fellow at the Mumbai think tank Gateway House, said Beijing’s resurrection of its old claim could be a pressure tactic.


    “The significance of the timing of the statement is that it might be hinting that the disengagement [of troops on the border] might not take place for the next few months,” Bhatia said.

    Sharma said a lack of disengagement on the LAC was helping Beijing to keep its presence of troops along its old claim line.


    “If one were to plot the 1959 Chinese claim line on the ground, then the People’s Liberation Army soldiers have nearly occupied all those areas … in the current stand-off,” he said. “So the Chinese can turn around and dismiss India’s calls for restoring status quo ante, because according to them, they are at their traditional claim line.”


    China’s decision to reaffirm its 1959 LAC also throws a question mark over the various agreements both sides had signed on the border issue.


    “Both India and China have committed to the clarification and confirmation of the LAC to reach a common understanding of the alignment of the LAC,” Ministry of External Affairs spokesman Srivastava had said.


    “In fact, the two sides had engaged in an exercise to clarify and confirm the LAC up to 2003, but this process could not proceed further as the Chinese side did not show a willingness to pursue it,” he said.

    For instance, the 1993 agreement – titled the “Agreement on Maintenance of Peace and Tranquility along the Line of Control in the India-China Border Areas” – ensured that forces and armaments were kept at a mutually-agreed minimum level, and installed border meetings between local forces on both sides to keep differences under check.


    Karackattu, the academic, said these agreements were crucial in ensuring peace at the LAC, despite the differences in perceptions.


    “Till now, there was a fluid understanding on patrolling and construction along the LAC, and this allowed us to have a border management system that ensured there was no loss of life,” he said.


    By reviving the 1959 claim line, this fluid understanding would be “harder to implement”, especially if Chinese forces tried to “fortify” their positions along the old line, Karackattu said.


    Such militarisation, which would see both sides dispatching military forces to defend their positions, would be dangerous and unsustainable, Sharma warned.


    The retired general said the LAC was at risk of turning into the Line of Control (LOC) – the heavily militarised de facto border between India and Pakistan guarded by heavy forces on both sides, with frequent firing of arms and ammunition leading to casualties.


    “If this happens, we are wading into unchartered waters,” Sharma said.








    India-China border dispute: is Beijing’s latest stance pushing both sides to the brink of conflict? | South China Morning Post

  7. #157
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Whatever happens will involve the chinkies pointing the finger at someone else.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    On Tuesday, a day before Chinese and Indian diplomats held a regular meeting about their seven-decade-old border dispute, Beijing said it would abide only by a “very clear” border alignment first spelt out in 1959 by late Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai.

    The alignment, stated in Zhou’s letter to then-Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru
    1 - China doesn't abide by agreement

    2 - A proposal y China isn't an agreement

    3 - Fuck 'em

  9. #159
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    India, China inch towards a Himalayan deal

    A careful reading of recent communications, meetings and signals shows the two sides are angling towards a compromise

    by MK Bhadrakumar October 7, 2020

    China-India Border Tensions-india-china-troops-himalayas-e1599828045800-jpg

    Indian and Chinese troops at a Himalayan mountain border outpost.

    Recent reports suggest that India and China have registered a positive evaluation of military and diplomatic consultations to negotiate a denouement to their five-month-old border standoff in Ladakh.

    On September 29, The Hindustan Times, a leading Indian daily, carried an exclusive statement made by the Chinese Foreign Ministry to its correspondent in Beijing saying that China’s stance on the boundary dispute with India still corresponds to what was stated in a November 7, 1959 letter by China’s then-Premier Chou En Lai addressed to his Indian counterpart Jawaharlal Nehru.

    In that historic document, Chou had proposed that “the armed forces of China and India each withdraw 20 kilometers at once from the so-called McMahon Line in the east (separating the present Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh from China’s Tibet), and from the line up to which each side exercises actual control in the west.”

    The letter also said “…that the two sides undertake to refrain from again sending their armed personnel to be stationed in and patrol the zones from which they have evacuated their armed forces, but still maintain civil administrative personnel and unarmed police there for the performance of administrative duties and maintenance of order.”

    Chou’s letter further underscored that “neither side should send its armed personnel to Longju (on the MacMahon Line, where in August 1959 the Chinese army took an Indian patrol prisoner), to the entire border between China and India” and moreover included a proposal to separate the troops of the two sides by as great a distance as 40 kilometers.

    If there is any need to increase this distance, the Chinese government would be willing to take it into consideration … the Chinese government is willing to do its utmost to create the most peaceful and most secure border zones between our two countries, so that our two countries will never again have apprehensions or come to a clash on account of border issues.”


    China-India Border Tensions-india-china-chou-enlai-jawaharial-nehru

    Then Chinese premier Zhou Enlai (L) and then Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru during a visit to India, April 21, 1960.

    Subsequently, during a controversial visit to Delhi in April 1960, Chou reiterated the above proposition during his conversations with Nehru. But it didn’t fly, as Nehru rejected the offer. The fateful border war of 1962 followed two year after.

    Much water has flowed down the Ganges River over the past six decades. China has emerged as a superpower on the world stage with a comprehensive national power manifold. India’s narratives have all but estimated that Beijing was no longer interested in Chou’s conciliatory formula.

    It therefore has come as a certain surprise to hear Beijing unequivocally affirming that it still goes by the 1959 LAC. Interestingly, The Hindustan Times also separately cited remarks made by Wang Dehua, a Chinese veteran specialist at the Shanghai Municipal Centre for International Studies and a familiar voice for the Delhi establishment.

    “The western sector (of the border) was drawn by (British) Indian surveyor Johnson, who privately assigned more than 30,000 square kilometers of land in the Aksai Chin region of China to British India,” Wang said.

    “This is the historical origin of the territorial dispute between China and India in the western section. China hopes India will give more concessions in the western sector (in Ladakh) while Beijing could give more concessions (to India) in the eastern sector (on MacMahon Line,” he added.

    Wang’s views can be taken as semi-official, and in this case his statement supplements the Foreign Ministry statement cited by the newspaper.

    In principle, the Indian stance continues to reject China’s LAC of 1959. Unsurprisingly, Delhi responded to the Hindustan Times report in real-time saying, “India has never accepted the so-called unilaterally defined 1959 Line of Actual Control. This position has been consistent and well known, including to the Chinese side.”

    Interestingly, the Indian statement went on to recall that the two countries have “have committed to clarification and confirmation of the LAC to reach a common understanding of the alignment of the LAC” but that the exercise stalled “as the Chinese side did not show a willingness to pursue it.”

    China-India Border Tensions-china-india-ladakh-map-copy-jpg

    The Indian statement also noted that “In the last few months, the Chinese side has repeatedly affirmed that the current situation in the border areas (in Ladakh) should be resolved in accordance with the agreements signed between the two countries.”

    The Indian response was conspicuously restrained and impeccably factual, but also signalled a willingness to negotiate with China.

    These sensitive exchanges took place within the week of a meeting of the two sides’ senior commanders of on September 21, which itself was held in the background of a meeting of their defense ministers in Moscow on September 4 and another meeting of their foreign ministers on September 10.

    The diplomats reached an agreement that the two countries should continue the dialogue and quickly and comprehensively disengage in all friction areas. This was also recorded in a joint statement signifying a certain convergence of views.

    The senior commanders meeting of September 24 was also distinctive for two reasons: one, a senior Indian diplomat had joined the army delegation at the talks, and, two, for the first time after the border meetings began in June a joint press release was issued on its outcome.

    Importantly, India’s Foreign Ministry gave a positive assessment of the commanders meeting, saying among other things that “disengagement is a complex process” that “would require mutually agreed reciprocal actions … It is at the same time also necessary to ensure stability on the ground.”

    It went on to say the senior commanders’ meeting presented an “opportunity to have candid and in-depth exchanges of views on stabilizing the situation along the LAC.”

    India, China inch towards a Himalayan deal - Asia Times
    Last edited by OhOh; 09-10-2020 at 01:50 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  10. #160
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    ‘New arms race’: border roads put India and China on route to conflict

    When India and China’s foreign ministers met in Moscow on September 10 and reached a “five-point consensus”, it seemed there had finally been a breakthrough in the months-long stand-off at their disputed Himalayan border.


    China’s Wang Yi and India’s S Jaishankar agreed to “ease tensions” and “quickly disengage” their troops from eyeball-to-eyeball confrontations backed by tanks and aircraft along the 3,488km undemarcated Line of Actual Control (LAC).


    Yet a month later, thousands of troops from both countries are still caught in a tense deadlock – though there have been no skirmishes or exchanges of fire as happened before the September meeting.


    As winter sets in amid the high altitudes of the restive Himalayan region, senior military commanders from both sides are expected to meet on Monday for their seventh attempt at negotiating some form of resolution.

    Meanwhile, India has signalled a renewed infrastructure push to connect the border areas with the rest of the country – a move analysts say could widen the gulf between New Delhi and Beijing.


    China, after all, has blamed India’s building of roads and air strips near the border for recent tensions – an accusation countered last month by two Indian officials who told Reuters that Chinese troops had been laying a network of fibre optic cables near one of the summer’s flashpoints.


    Yun Sun, a senior fellow and director of the Washington-based Stimson Center’s China programme, said in a webinar on October 2 organised by the John Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies that for her “the origin of the clashes is in this arms race surrounding infrastructure development by both sides”.

    “Both sides are trying to use infrastructure development to strengthen and enhance their tactical advantage,” she said.



    TUNNEL TROUBLE


    On the same day Yun was speaking, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated a 9km road tunnel at more than 10,000 feet above sea level that cuts travel time between Leh, joint capital of the Indian border region Ladakh, and Manali in Himachal Pradesh by over four hours.


    The tunnel was originally intended for civilian use, but Indian authorities now plan to open a bridge over the Bhaga River, according to reports, to keep the Manali-Leh road operational year-round – even during heavy floods and landslides.


    Just weeks before, the government body tasked with building strategic infrastructure links near India’s borders, the Border Roads Organisation, told the media it was opening the new Nimmu-Padam-Darcha road to better connect Leh and Ladakh with the rest of the country. An Indian media report, without naming Pakistan or China, called the road strategically crucial because it was “untraceable by the enemy”.


    Late last month, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said Beijing was opposed to such infrastructure development for the “purposes of military control”.

    “Based on the two sides’ consensus, no side should engage in the border areas in any activities that might complicate the situation by undermining efforts by the two sides to ease the situation,” he said.


    Wang further described last year’s change of status for Ladakh – from a semi-autonomous region in the state of Jammu and Kashmir to a centrally administered union territory – as “illegal” and said that China did not recognise it.



    A CHANGE OF MINDSET


    India’s renewed infrastructure push was always likely to attract criticism from Beijing as it marks a break from New Delhi’s earlier strategic thinking, according to defence analyst Rohit Vats, whose research interests include infrastructure development along the country’s border areas.


    “India deliberately did not create strong border infrastructure until the mid-1980s, because the thinking was it [would] deny the Chinese access to sensitive areas, in case of an invasion,” he said.


    Vats said this mindset began to change as border stand-offs between Chinese and Indian troops increased in frequency, becoming a near-annual event between 2013 and 2017 – the year of a 72-day stand-off on the Doklam Plateau that was fuelled by New Delhi’s opposition to a Chinese attempt to build a road in a region claimed by Bhutan.


    “India realised that this [old mindset] was a double-edged sword because it also ended up impeding its own troop movements and the ability to mobilise troops quickly,” Vats said.

    There are supposed to be 73 “Indo-China border roads” that can be used year-round, according to a parliamentary report on the subject last year. But as of last February, only 34 were operational – the report found the other 39, earmarked for completion by 2012, had yet to open.


    This poor completion record has led to incidents where Indian troops have found the road they were travelling on “stopped a few kilometres short”, Vats said – hampering effective mobilisation and requiring expensive air drops of equipment and personnel.


    Which is partly why new road infrastructure has proved so contentious amid the recent tensions.


    A new 255km road on the Indian side of the LAC that connects Darbuk in Leh with the military outpost at Daulat Beg Oldi has invited close scrutiny from the Chinese as it and other infrastructure projects in the Galwan Valley and near Pangong Tso “are regarded by China as encroaching or inching forward towards what China believes is its legitimate territory,” Sun from the Stimson Center said.

    In spite of China’s opposition, India seems unwilling to back down on its road building. Modi, speaking at the inauguration of the new tunnel on October 2, said that border infrastructure was “being developed with full impetus and great speed”.


    “Connectivity in border areas is directly related to security-related issues of the country. The union government is giving utmost emphasis on the development of border infrastructure,” he said.


    Still, New Delhi must do a lot more, according to Phunchok Stobdan, a foreign policy specialist and the founding president of the Ladakh International Centre in Leh.


    “India needs more ambitious strategies for Ladakh and to look at it as a launch pad for a greater outreach to central Asia and East Asia, for connectivity, roads, communications, fuel supply among others,” he said.

    The government is reportedly working on creating more all-weather road links to Ladakh, including a new 13.5km tunnel to avoid a high pass on the Manali-Leh route that is often hit with heavy snowfall in winter.


    Yet this is only likely to spark more tensions with China, according to Sun.


    “If India’s perception is that it can consolidate legitimacy through repeating or advancing infrastructure, then there is all the more reason for China to stop it,” she said in the webinar.


    Indian defence analyst Vats, on the other hand, said New Delhi was likely to push ahead with its infrastructure projects, having previously been lulled into a “false sense of complacency” by the border agreements that the countries signed.


    “In some ways, China’s actions have woken up a sleeping enemy,” he said.

    ‘New arms race’: border roads put India and China on route to conflict | South China Morning Post

  11. #161
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    India to open world’s longest high-altitude tunnel strategically located near disputed China border


  12. #162
    In Uranus
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    To those of you who have posted and commented in the thread about China invading Taiwan this boarder tension is just another of many reasons why an invasion of Taiwan will never happen.

  13. #163
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    To those of you who have posted and commented in the thread about China invading Taiwan this boarder tension is just another of many reasons why an invasion of Taiwan will never happen.
    India has nukes.

    Just sayin'

  14. #164
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Indian Army captures Chinese soldier in Ladakh

    Indian security personnel captured a Chinese soldier in the Chumar-Demchok area of Ladakh.


    "Chinese soldier apprehended by security forces in Chumar-Demchok area of Ladakh. He might have entered Indian territory inadvertently. He will be returned to Chinese Army as per established protocol after following due procedure," as sources told news agency ANI.

    Initial reports suggest People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldier was carrying civil and military documents when he was caught by the Indian Army, reports India Today.


    It also said the Chinese soldier is of corporal-rank and from Shangxizhen town of the central Chinese province of Zhejiang.

    Indian Army captures Chinese soldier in Ladakh, India News News | wionews.com

  15. #165
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Tensions reduced through diplomacy.

  16. #166
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Indian Army captures Chinese soldier in Ladakh

    Indian security personnel captured a Chinese soldier in the Chumar-Demchok area of Ladakh.


    "Chinese soldier apprehended by security forces in Chumar-Demchok area of Ladakh. He might have entered Indian territory inadvertently. He will be returned to Chinese Army as per established protocol after following due procedure," as sources told news agency ANI.
    That's nice, if it was the other way round some hapless Indian private would probably be getting "re-educated".

  17. #167
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    India, China trade blame for break down in border talks

    NEW DELHI/BEIJING, Oct 11 (Reuters) - Talks between Indian and Chinese military commanders to resolve a protracted standoff on a stretch of disputed Himalayan border have broken down, with both sides blaming each other on Monday for the failure to make progress.


    Thousands of Indian and Chinese troops have been locked in a high-altitude face-off in India's Ladakh region since last year, despite the two militaries holding more than a dozen rounds of talks to diffuse the situation.


    On Sunday, commanders met for the 13th time, with Indian officials emphasising that the confrontation had been triggered by "unilateral attempts of Chinese side to alter the status quo", India's defence ministry said in a statement.


    "During the meeting, the Indian side therefore made constructive suggestions for resolving the remaining areas but the Chinese side was not agreeable and also could not provide any forward-looking proposals," the ministry said, adding that the meeting did not lead to a resolution.


    In February, both sides had agreed to pull back troops from some areas around Pangong Tso, a glacial lake at 14,000 ft (4,270 metres), after prolonged negotiations between military commanders and diplomats of the two sides.


    "The Indian side continued to insist on unreasonable and unrealistic demands, which made the negotiations more difficult," said Long Shaohua, a spokesperson for the Chinese People's Liberation Army's Western command, according to a notice posted on the command's WeChat account.


    Long said he hoped India would not "misjudge the situation" and would work with China to maintain peace in the area.


    Deployments by the two sides were enhanced after clashes in June 2020, when 20 Indian soldiers were killed when soldiers fought with iron rods and stones in Ladakh's Galwan Valley.


    China also suffered an unspecified number of casualties, in the first combat losses for both countries on the border in 45 years.


    But troops remain in close proximity in other parts of Ladakh, an arid snow desert that straddles a part of the 3,500 km-long border between the nuclear-armed neighbours.


    The two countries, which fought a border war in 1962, have over-lapping claims to large areas of territory along the frontier.

    India, China trade blame for break down in border talks | Taiwan News | 2021-10-12 15:40:00

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    Spokesperson of the China's PLA Western Theater Command releases a statement on latest China-India military talks

    2021-10-11 09

    "Colonel Long Shaohua, spokesperson for China’s PLA Western Theater Command, has made a statement on the 13th round of the corps commander-level talks between China and India. The talks were held on Sunday, October 10th, on the Chinese side of the Moldo-Chushul border meeting point.

    Long points out that during the talks, China has made great efforts to promote the easing and cooling of the border situation and fully demonstrated its sincerity in order to maintain the overall situation of the relations between the two militaries. However, India still insisted on the unreasonable and unrealistic demands, which made the negotiations more difficult.

    China’s resolve to safeguard national sovereignty is firm. China hopes the Indian side will not misjudge the situation, cherish the hard-won situation in the China-India border areas, abide by relevant agreements and consensus between the two countries and the two militaries, show sincerity and take actions, and work with China to jointly safeguard peace and stability in the border areas."

    Spokesperson of the China's PLA Western Theater Command releases a statement on latest China-India military talks

    As on many occasions, Global Times has an opinion on the topic:

    India sleepwalks on border issue: Global Times editorial

    By Global Times Published: Oct 11, 2021 08:36 PM

    India sleepwalks on border issue: Global Times editorial - Global Times

  19. #169
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    I consider this conflict the result of arrogance and pig headedness on the part of both parties. This is an area of the world that is hardly habitable and where filling one's lungs with air is a struggle in itself. The parties are fighting over land between glaciers, in some cases on glaciers and where soldiers have to be rotated on a frequent basis just to be able to keep on keeping on physically. The idea that these combatants continue to engage is this 'quasi war' while many of their own citizens are still surviving hand to mouth is regrettable. Fuck em both.



    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    To those of you who have posted and commented in the thread about China invading Taiwan this boarder tension is just another of many reasons why an invasion of Taiwan will never happen.
    That news comes as a great relief Snubs, although to be honest the comment makes pretty well no sense.
    A true diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you will be asking for directions.

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    MoU on China-Bhutan boundary talks 'breaks deadlock caused by India, paves way for diplomatic ties'


    By, Cao Siqi, Liu Xinand Bai Yunyi

    Published: Oct 15, 2021 05:48 PM Updated: Oct 15, 2021 06:27 PM

    "China and Bhutan signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on a Three-Step Roadmap to help speed up boundary talks that have been heavily delayed, during a virtual meeting held on Thursday. The MoU is of historic significance and is the result of years of joint efforts and sincere cooperation between the two sides, analysts said, noting that it points out the direction for breaking the current deadlock and laying a foundation for the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Bhutan.

    Unlike what it did in the Doklam standoff in 2017, India may have less chances or excuses to make troubles over border areas when there is significant improvement on boundary talks between China and Bhutan, and it may choose to set blockades for Bhutan and China when the negotiations enter the crucial period, experts warned.

    The Assistant Minister of Foreign Affairs of China, Wu Jianghao, and the Foreign Minister of Bhutan, Lyonpo Tandi Dorji, signed the MoU on the Three-Step Roadmap for Expediting the Bhutan-China Boundary Negotiations at the virtual signing ceremony.

    Wu said the traditional friendship between the two peoples goes back to ancient times. It is expected that the MoU will make a meaningful contribution to speed up the negotiation on demarcation and promote the process of establishing diplomatic ties between the two countries, Xinhua News Agency reported.

    Foreign Minister of Bhutan, Lyonpo Tandi Dorji said that Bhutan will work with China to implement the MoU, unswervingly push forward the negotiation on demarcation and be committed to strengthening bilateral relations, Xinhua reported.
    A milestone

    Chinese experts reached by the Global Times hailed the inking of the MoU, saying that negotiations on boundary issues between China and Bhutan started in 1984 and previously had no breakthroughs after more than 20 rounds of talks. The MoU is a milestone and would help break the deadlock.

    Bhutan is one of two countries that have land boundary issues unsolved with China, but signing the MoU is significant as it represents a big step forward for the two countries in solving the issues, Wang Shida, deputy director of the South Asia, Southeast Asia and Oceania Research Institute of Contemporary International Relations Research Academy of China, told the Global Times.

    The boundary issue between China and Bhutan is special because it not only relates to Bhutan but also has become a negative factor for China-India ties. Unsolved China-Bhutan boundary issues were used as an excuse by India to attack China during the Doklam standoff in 2017. If China and Bhutan make progress in solving boundary disputes, India will have fewer chances and excuses to make troubles on border areas, said Wang Shida.

    On June 18, 2017, Indian border troops crossed the China-India boundary in the Sikkim sector and advanced more than 100 meters into Chinese territory. Indian troops' illegal crossing of a delimited boundary and entering the territory of China violated China's sovereignty and territorial integrity, but India has invented various excuses to justify its illegal action, including claiming to protect Bhutan from China.

    According to a list of facts released by the Xinhua News Agency, the 1890 Convention has made it clear that the China-India boundary in the Sikkim sector commences at Mount Ji Mu Ma Zhen on the Bhutan frontier. Mount Ji Mu Ma Zhen is the eastern starting point of the China-India boundary in the Sikkim sector and it is also the boundary tri-junction between China, India and Bhutan.

    The Indian troops' trespassing occurred at a place on the China-India boundary in the Sikkim sector, more than 2,000 meters away from Mount Ji Mu Ma Zhen. Matters concerning the boundary tri-junction have nothing to do with this incident. There is no dispute in this section of border.

    As Chinese experts hail the MoU on a roadmap between China and Bhutan, India has also paid close attention to it, because it has long stood in the way of China and Bhutan's negotiations on boundary negotiations by wielding influence on Bhutan's defense and diplomacy.

    In response to whether India has been informed by Bhutan about the MoU, the spokesperson of Indian's Ministry of External Affairs Arindam Bagchi said that India noted the MoU, the Times of India reported on Friday. It also noted that it is inconceivable that Bhutan would not have discussed the MoU with India.

    Some Indian media said that India's "cautious response" was "understandable" due to its fraught relations with China over border disputes.

    India has always been the reason for the delay in negotiations on boundary issues between China and Bhutan. After previous rounds of talks, the two sides have reached a consensus on some issues, but India believes these would undermine its interests, especially about the western section of the China-Bhutan border, which India thinks could pose a threat to the Siliguri Corridor, Wang Se, an assistant professor at the Institute of South Asian Studies of the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations, told the Global Times.

    When India puts pressure on Bhutan, it makes it difficult for China and Bhutan to push for border negotiations. After the Doklam standoff, China and Bhutan did not hold a meeting for border talks for a long time, which shows India was exerting great influence on Bhutan, Wang Se noted.

    So far, no details of the three-step roadmap have been revealed. Wang Se said the roadmap might be similar to the principle of China-India border talks, which means they will first establish basic political principles of boundary demarcation, then solve specific disputes and finally, sign an agreement and draw the boundary demarcation.

    Experts noted that India will interfere when the roadmap is implemented to make concrete protocols. "Signing the MoU is not as sensitive as signing a concrete agreement. It is highly possible that India would exert great pressure to Bhutan when Bhutan's negotiations with China are at a crucial point to prevent its final success, or India may mess up the negotiations," Wang Shida said.

    Experts warned that there may be changes over the negotiations between China and Bhutan due to India's possible interference.

    Experts warned that there may be changes over the negotiations between China and Bhutan due to India's possible interference.

    The timing of the MoU also raised concerns from some Indian media as it comes at a time when the India-China border talks on their 17-month-old standoff at the Line of Actual Control appear to have hit an impasse this week. The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Western Theater Command issued a statement on Monday, slamming India for its unreasonable and unrealistic demands and the new incidents the latter sparked along the eastern section of the border recently.

    An expert who asked for anonymity told the Global Times that signing the MoU shows Bhutan's sincerity in solving problems with China and its willingness to get rid of India's interference to gain more independence of diplomacy for Bhutan's own national interests.

    Given India frequently makes troubles in the border areas, China also wants to take the initiative along border areas by promoting boundary talks with Bhutan as well as solving China-India border disputes, the expert said.

    Due to geographic and historical reasons, India has great influence over Bhutan's diplomatic policies and internal affairs. The Global Times reporters went to visit Bhutan during the Doklam standoff in 2017 and saw India's influence in the country in every field.

    For example, in Haa, a place of great strategic and military importance in west Bhutan, the India army has dominated. Residents have complicated feelings over India as although they want to have a powerful neighbor like India but they also fear about India's stirring up of confrontations with China, which may drag Bhutan into the abyss. Some educated individuals think that India is lying by saying "protecting" Bhutan.

    Wang Shida said that India has shored up its influence along the Himalayas and neighboring countries, especially to Bhutan. Land-locked Bhutan relies heavily on India to import oil, food and other basic necessities, which means India is able to interfere in Bhutan's internal and external policies.

    But some experts pointed out that with the rising of China, Bhutan has an increasing drive to improve relations and form diplomatic ties with China.

    Mutual benefits

    The MoU also shows China's sincerity in resolving boundary issues with its neighbors through peaceful consultations, which is in contrast with the false accusations made by some Indian media that China is engaging in expansionism and bullying its neighbors, Qian Feng, director of the research department at the National Strategy Institute at Tsinghua University, told the Global Times.

    China's ways of solving boundary issues also pose a sharp comparison to India, which is still having disputes with many of its neighbors, including China, Pakistan and Nepal, experts noted.

    Zhang Yongpan, a research fellow of the Institute of Chinese Borderland Studies of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said India should take note from the China-Bhutan MoU as India has repeatedly undermined peace and tranquility in the border areas between China and India, violated the agreement and undermined the development achievements of China-India relations over the years.

    A field investigation into the China-Bhutan border areas shows herdsmen and farmers on both sides enjoy a peaceful and stable living environment. The roadmap could be beneficial for the China-proposed Belt and Road Initiative and development of China's border regions.

    Experts also believe the landmark agreement will push for the establishment of diplomatic relations in China and Bhutan.

    Since 1985, Bhutan has begun to establish diplomatic relations with many countries and maintained trade relations with China. Since China's boycott of the Dalai clique in the Himalayan region, Bhutan also made a firm attitude to support China. Therefore, the Tibetan exile has a small impact on the country, Zhang said.

    However, due to interference by the Indian government, there are many difficulties for Bhutan on the road of establishing diplomatic relations between China. In a certain sense, the three-step negotiation on the boundary issue could be an important foundation for diplomatic relations between the two sides, Zhang said."


    MoU on China-Bhutan boundary talks 'breaks deadlock caused by India, paves way for diplomatic ties' - Global Times


    and here:

    THE TIMES OF INDIA

    bhutan: MoU with Bhutan to contribute to speed up border talks, establishment of diplomatic ties: China - Times of India
    Last edited by OhOh; 18-10-2021 at 07:07 PM.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    That news comes as a great relief Snubs, although to be honest the comment makes pretty well no sense.
    That is because you are a moron who can not conceive that China can not defend those contested areas simultaneously while it is being grinded down in an amphibious assault of Taiwan that it is not capable of winning.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    That is because you are a moron who can not conceive that China can not defend those contested areas simultaneously while it is being grinded down in an amphibious assault of Taiwan that it is not capable of winning.
    AND... India's got nukes. And real hypersonic missiles.


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    China adopts new land border law amid military impasse with India


    China on Saturday passed a new law to strengthen and govern its land borders amid the ongoing military tension along the disputed boundary with India.


    The legislation formalises combining the military defence of China’s land borders with improving social and economic development in border areas.


    It further strengthens the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) policy to work closely with civilians staying in border areas - for example, Tibetan villagers living along the border with India, Bhutan and Nepal - to work as the first line of defence.

    Long-standing border disputes should be resolved through negotiations, the new law adds, according to Chinese official media.


    India and China have been locked in a border row for 17 months, a phase that witnessed the deadly skirmish in the Galwan Valley in eastern Ladakh on 15 June 2020 when troops from both sides fought for hours with iron rods, clubs covered with barbed wire and rocks.


    Twenty Indian soldiers were killed in the clash, the first fatalities on the Line of Actual Control since 1975; four Chinese soldiers were killed and one was injured as well.

    China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC) on Saturday voted to adopt the “…new law on the protection and exploitation of the country’s land border areas, which will take effect on January 1, 2022”, the news agency Xinhua reported.


    The state “…shall take measures to safeguard territorial integrity and land boundaries and guard against and combat any act that undermines territorial sovereignty and land boundaries”, it says.


    The law stipulates that the state shall take measures to “…strengthen border defence, support economic and social development as well as opening-up in border areas, improve public services and infrastructure in such areas, encourage and support people’s life and work there, and promote coordination between border defence and social, economic development in border areas”.


    The law “stipulates the relevant responsibilities” of the PLA, the armed militia, and local governments to support and coordinate border defence and management of areas at the border and the building of border infrastructure.


    The law also lays down rules to support the construction of border towns and the management of rivers in the areas and land ports.


    On the issue of resolving border disputes, the law says: “The state shall, following the principle of equality, mutual trust, and friendly consultation, handle land border related-affairs with neighbouring countries through negotiations to properly resolve disputes and longstanding border issues.”


    Gao Jinlu, from the foreign affairs committee of the NPC was quoted as saying by state media, that the land border law establishes a standardised legal framework for managing China’s land border affairs.


    President Xi Jinping signed orders to promulgate the law.


    Li Zhanshu, chairman of the NPC Standing Committee, presided over the closing meeting of the 31st session of the 13th NPC Standing Committee, which ran from Tuesday to Saturday.


    China adopts new land border law amid military impasse with India

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    Tawang skirmish: Chinese army alleges Indian troops 'illegally' crossed border

    The Chinese military blamed the Indian troops for 'illegally' crossing the Line of Actual Control and “obstructing" Chinese border patrol troops leading to the stand-off between the two armies on December 9. According to a statement by a People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Western Theatre Command spokesman, the Chinese troops “were obstructed by the Indian army who illegally crossed the Line (of Actual Control)". “Our response measures were professional, standard, and forceful, and stabilized the situation on the ground. At present, China and India have disengaged," he added according to AFP.


    The clash between Indian and Chinese troops along the Line of Actual Control in northeastern India's Arunachal Pradesh's Tawang Sector on December 9 has evoked strong political reactions in India. Amid the opposition's demand for a 'stern' response to China, India's Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said in the parliament that while China unilaterally attempted to change the status quo along the LAC, the timely intervention by the Indian troops shunned away the Chinese PLA. Beijing said on Tuesday that the situation was stable along the unresolved border with India, adding the two sides "maintained unobstructed dialogue on the border issue through diplomatic and military channels."


    Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force launched active combat patrols over Arunachal Pradesh after detecting "enhanced Chinese air activity", reports said. Fighter jets had to be scrambled "two-three times" in recent weeks to thwart China, they revealed.


    The proceedings at the Indian parliament's lower house, Lok Sabha (House of the people) were adjourned till mid-day on Tuesday amid constant demand by opposition to respond to the gravity of the situation along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China in Arunachal Pradesh.


    Following the opposition's demands and adjournment notices to address the matter, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh gave a statement in Lok Sabha on Tuesday.


    India's timely intervention shunned away PLA: Defence Minister


    Singh said that China attempted to "unilaterally change the status quo", against which Indian troops responded with a befitting reply. "No Indian soldier lost its life and timely intervention of Indian military commanders shunned away the PLA troops," Rajnath Singh said.


    "Our troops bravely stopped PLA from encroaching upon our territory and forced them to go back to their post," he added.


    "This matter has also been taken up with China through diplomatic channels. I want to assure the House that our forces are committed to guard our borders and ready to thwart any attempt that will be made to challenge it," Rajnath Singh added further.


    Clashes broke out between both sides along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Arunachal's Yangste area of the Tawang sector on December 9. Soldiers from both sides sustained injuries as they exchanged barbs with each other.

    The face-off reportedly led to minor injuries to a few personnel from both sides. At least Indian six soldiers were injured in the clash and were brought to Guwahati for treatment, as per reports by the news agency PTI.


    The situation is 'stable': Chinese foreign ministry


    Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin did not comment on the reported clash from Tuesday. He told reporters "as far as we understand, the China-India border situation is stable overall," referring to the unresolved border between India and China, officially referred to as the Line of Actual Control due to its perilous nature.


    "Both sides have throughout maintained unobstructed dialogue on the border issue through diplomatic and military channels, it is hoped that the Indian side will advance in the same direction as China," he added.


    Beijing urged New Delhi to "earnestly implement the important consensus reached by both leaders, strictly abide by the spirit of the agreements and accords signed by both sides, together uphold the peace and tranquillity of the China-India border region."


    Indian parliamentarians had moved adjournment notices in both houses of the parliament on Tuesday. While Manish Tewari gave a notice in the lower house, Lok Sabha; Congress leaders Randeep Surjewala and Syed Nasir Hussain gave similar adjournment notices in the upper house, Rajya Sabha.


    Congress chief Mallikarjun Kharge was quoted by PTI as saying: "Again our Indian Army soldiers have been provoked by the Chinese. Our jawans fought in a resolute manner and a few of them have been injured too."


    The Congress party also slammed Prime Minister Narendra Modi and urged the government to convey intolerance to Chinese infiltration attempts in a 'stern tone'.


    "There is news of a clash between the soldiers of India and China in Tawang sector of Arunachal Pradesh. The time has come for the government to leave its wavering attitude and explain to China in a stern tone that its act will not be tolerated," Congress's official Twitter handle INC India stated.

    In another tweet, Congress hit out at Prime Minister Narendra Modi for his earlier comments related to the LAC standoff between India and China in Ladakh.


    Referring to PM Modi's clarification pertaining to alleged Chinese intrusion, Congress said, "If this mistake had not been made. If China was not afraid of taking the name of China, today it would not have had the capacity to raise its eyes towards our country. Occupying our land, coming to our land and fighting with our soldiers is a distant thing. There's still time... don't be afraid!"


    Meanwhile, Aam Aadmi Party chief Arvind Kejriwal said, "Our youth are the pride of the country. I salute his bravery and pray to God for his speedy recovery."


    The said incident reportedly took place on December 9 in the Yangtse area in Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh. Around 200 Chinese soldiers tried to transgress the LAC, but the Indian troops contested the PLA attempts in a "firm and resolute manner", officers said.

    Tawang skirmish: Chinese army alleges Indian troops '''illegally''' crossed border - World News

  25. #175
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    Just the latest incident in a series of incidents happening since 1962.
    This too shall pass.

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