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  1. #26
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    It's not about teaching, it's how they read after the teaching during their life. That's why they learn the Thai language sooo many years, not much time left over for learning something else (beside learning the "ceremonies")...


    So they can read and write Thai after being at school for many years and they come across a new word and you think they cannot read it because there is no space between the previous word (that they know) and the next word (that they know)? Really? Is that what you think?

    Or is it just that YOU struggle to do that in such a situation and you are projecting your own difficulties with Thai?
    Nev has style

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    Your opinion, or is there evidence that points to this?
    I think you can hear this when Thais struggle with hard finals because their language doesn't use them so much. Example, the Thai word for a car we might write in English as 'rod' or 'rot' although it is really neither because they don't do that final release of air the English do. So they struggle to distinguish cap, cat and cad.

    Which is strange to me, because they do have those plosives as initials, so they are not completely new sounds to them. They can say pie, tie and die, for example.

    Of course they also find difficulty with sounds like /z/ which are not in Thai in the same way that I struggle to make the mixed /b/ and /p/ sound that they use for 'fish' and which is not in English.

    Probably there are some lingusts here who can explain it more precisely. My own idea from observation only is that if they can make a sound /t/ as an initial in English but not as a final then that must be a handicap carried over from their first language.

  3. #28
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    ^ L1 interference (first language interference/mother tongue interference/the application of linguistic features from one language to another)

    L1 interference is a potential problem for all learners of a foreign language. Just listen to foreigners in Thailand trying to speak Thai. Some sound OK but others are awful - no tones or wrong tones, wrong vowel lengths, wrong vowel sounds, "English" pronunciation of Thai words.

  4. #29
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Probably there are some lingusts here who can explain it more precisely. My own idea from observation only is that if they can make a sound /t/ as an initial in English but not as a final then that must be a handicap carried over from their first language.
    Syllables in Thai can only have one of six final consonant sounds (m, n, ng, k, p or t). Syllables spelt with other final letters change the sound of that final letter to one of those 6 sounds. For example: d changes to t, s changes to t, l changes to n - which is why you often hear Thai people pronounce school as 'schoon').

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Or is it just that YOU struggle to do that in such a situation and you are projecting your own difficulties with Thai?
    No need to relate my remarks and views on my "struggle" or whatever...We know how proficient you are in Thai....

    I just tell how I see it, whether having difficulties with Thai (or English) or whatever.

    Is here any discussion possible without personal insinuations?


    Wondering how do you look for words in Thai dictionary when not knowing where the word starts and the one before ends (of course, we know that you do not need a dictionary):

    ทั้งนี้ มีนายแพทย์ระดับสูง 2 คน และ รมว.สาธารณสุขของบราซิล ได้ลาออกจากตำแหน่งไปแล้วในช่วงเดือนที่ผ่านมา เพราะไม่เห็นด้วยกับแนวทางการป้องกันรักษาโรคโควิดขอ งรัฐบาลภายใต้การนำของประธานาธิบดีโบลโซโนรู ที่ดูไม่ยี่หระหวั่นวิตกต่อวิกฤติโควิด-19 แต่อย่างใด จนทำให้ขณะนี้มีผู้เสียชีวิตและติดเชื้อโควิดในประเท ศจำนวนมาก

  6. #31
    Thailand Expat reinvented's Avatar
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    have to agree that systemic change is going to take a combination of logan's run and the khmer rouge
    they get sent on courses and as Cyrille said, know they dont have to act on it when they get back

  7. #32
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Thai students learn each word seperately - and if a word has more than one syllable, Thai teachers break down the words into single syllables.
    I remember visiting a school in Kamala during post-2004 rebuilding.

    The kids were just reciting reciting reciting without any real attempt to describe meaning or context.

    The teacher just stood there watching and waved at us.

  8. #33
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    No need to relate my remarks and views on my "struggle" or whatever

    I just tell how I see it, whether having difficulties with Thai (or English) or whatever.
    Yes, your own struggles.


    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Wondering how do you look for words in Thai dictionary when not knowing where the word starts and the one before ends
    Are you asking about me personally, or you, or Thai students or ... ?

    Anyway, in such a situation, it seems you do not know many words at all in the text (at least three words in a row that you do not understand and cannot work out where they start or end) so read an easier text that more reflects your level of learning. And if you are at such a low level of reading ability that you cannot distinguish a syllable in a text, start with learning Thai grammar so that you understand how syllables work in Thai.

  9. #34
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    About 10 years ago I applied for a job at a top govt high school in Khon Kaen. Noticing I was from Canada they asked if I would teach French as well. I said I had studied French in school but no way I should teach it. They said, say something in French. I said "bonjour" they said "you're hired" My accent was crap, I told my students that and informed them we would work more with recordings and such. We had a great term, lots of fun, they learned a lot of French songs.

    The Thai teacher in charge of French always tried to speak to me in French, I could never understand a word she was saying. next term they hired a French national to teach, after a couple weeks there he asked what language she was trying to speak because according to him it certainly wasnt french. It was quite funny as she also used to correct him all the time.

    The whole system is f@cked. Its all just a game of show.

  10. #35
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    I am not a teacher (thank god) and my Thai is abysmal at best so I can't be critical of her attempt at speaking English, I am sure she is very proud of her English speaking skills.
    However it is the first time I think I have heard someone speak English with a Thai accent and it was very amusing.
    My Thai wife speaks English with an Australian accent and it throws people a little bit which is not unusual at it can confuse Poms and Yanks as well (the accent that is).
    I have heard English speakers speaking English and not been able to understand them.
    I remember watching a news bulletin about Northern Ireland and they had to use subtitles when one guy was talking (English supposedly).

    I believe the problem with Thai's learning English is that they don't want to and they refers to the powers that make the decisions, after all according to one very high up source Thai will become a world language soon. My wife has told me that there are plenty of Thai people who laugh at the fact that their PM can't speak English.

    I recall an amusing incident that occurred when we were living in Australia. My wife and I went down to the pub for some reason and while there we met a guy she worked with. He was a dinky di outback bush Aussie so sometimes difficult to understand. Anyway on this occasion he was pissed so impossible to understand. My wife said to me , after he moved on, "what did he say" and I told I didn't have a clue. She says "but he was speaking English wasn't he" and I replied "No he thinks he was speaking English"

    And so did that woman in the video!

  11. #36
    Member Bettyboo's Avatar
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    Typical TEFLers moronic comments on this thread...

    She's teaching kids in a light way to get them speaking, listing and thinking a bit. Her pronunciation is clearer than many native speakers. Give her a break... I did teacher training for Thai teachers for a decade, and most of them had no background in English, no desire to teach it, there was simply nobody else to do so in their schools - many, literally did not speak a single word of English. Thai kids having this lady as a teacher are doing better than most Thai kids.

    She looks professional, has made a decent enough slide and is doing a song, like you do with kids. She's been asked to do a distance learning style class which she probably has no previous training or experience it.

    I'd like to see the crap you lot would churn out in her position. She speaks with tone in her voice, her first language is affecting her English, shock, horror. I've heard BBC presenters who are harder to make out.

    Fuk me, you TEFLers are an ignorant lot...
    How do I post these pictures???

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    Typical TEFLers moronic comments on this thread...

    a) She's teaching kids in a light way to get them speaking, listing and thinking a bit. b) I did teacher training for Thai teachers for a decade

    c) Fuk me, you TEFLers are an ignorant lot...
    a) the front row was definitely listing...
    b) so, you bear some responsibility for her struggle then...
    c) Teacher Trainer: train thyself...

  13. #38
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Syllables in Thai can only have one of six final consonant sounds (m, n, ng, k, p or t). Syllables spelt with other final letters change the sound of that final letter to one of those 6 sounds. For example: d changes to t, s changes to t, l changes to n - which is why you often hear Thai people pronounce school as 'schoon').
    Shit. So when those bargirls said "You want play poon"......

  14. #39
    I am no longer a Hostage
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Thai students are handicapped by their Thai language. Where in the world the words are not separated? What's the reason that - now in the modern time - the words cannot be made separated?
    On the other hand, you english speakers do split up words too much.

    Or is it only me who struggles a bit there ?

    Busconductoruniformbutton

    (how it would be in danish)

  15. #40
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Thai students are handicapped by their Thai language.
    Yea, the separation of words argument is ridiculous as an excuse . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    Busconductoruniformbutton
    Unabhängigkeitserklärung is a simple declaration of stating one's independence . . . but then there is the more legal-language word brought into life by the mad cow disease; Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübert ragungsgesetz

    Yea . . . nah . . . just making excuses, eh Klondke.

    Our daughter's best friend here has a Thai homestay girl whose English is as fluent as a native speaker - after one year.

    It's the teaching, structure and all, not the language that poses the problem.

  16. #41
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Our daughter's best friend here has a Thai homestay girl whose English is as fluent as a native speaker - after one year.

    It's the teaching, structure and all, not the language that poses the problem.
    You're oversimplifying.

    Your first sentence hints at another part of the problem - the lack of practice, need and modelling.

    And of course it's easier for, say, a first language speaker of Spanish to learn English. L1 interference is a major factor.

    Also, batty's post remains puzzling. As is his wont he just lashed out semi-coherently rather than actually addressing any point.

    Almost nobody was critical of the actual teacher.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    It's the teaching, structure and all, not the language that poses the problem.
    ...it's also the apparent relevance of the subject to the Ss lives...motivation moves learning: Ss quickly pick up how to download free porn without one minute of classroom instruction...let's face it: English lessons are a waste of time for the vast majority. They are perpetrated by the grossly misnamed Min of Ed to demonstrate how up-to-date their programs are...
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  18. #43
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    You're oversimplifying.
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Your first sentence hints at another part of the problem - the lack of practice, need and modelling.
    Absolutely - plus television is a major factor in getting used to English - more t sows should be in English

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    And of course it's easier for, say, a first language speaker of Spanish to learn English. L1 interference is a major factor.
    I'm not sure what that means but I found Malay much easier to learn than Chinese . . . alphabet and lateral thinking. Malay - same alphabet. Chinese - different.

    Ah, ok. Initial language interference with the second

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Originally Posted by Klondyke
    No need to relate my remarks and views on my "struggle" or whatever

    I just tell how I see it, whether having difficulties with Thai (or English) or whatever.
    Yes, your own struggles.


    Originally Posted by Klondyke
    Wondering how do you look for words in Thai dictionary when not knowing where the word starts and the one before ends
    Are you asking about me personally, or you, or Thai students or ... ?

    Anyway, in such a situation, it seems you do not know many words at all in the text (at least three words in a row that you do not understand and cannot work out where they start or end) so read an easier text that more reflects your level of learning. And if you are at such a low level of reading ability that you cannot distinguish a syllable in a text, start with learning Thai grammar so that you understand how syllables work in Thai.
    My post replying to the kind above comments of Neverna has disappeared? A special favor for her? How righteous...

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Yes



    Absolutely - plus television is a major factor in getting used to English - more t sows should be in English


    I'm not sure what that means but I found Malay much easier to learn than Chinese . . . alphabet and lateral thinking. Malay - same alphabet. Chinese - different.

    Ah, ok. Initial language interference with the second
    Same for me on the Chinese/Malay thing. But chinese is a tonal language (same as thai) while Malay is not. I also read somewhere that malay has some of the fewest tenses of any language, but that is not really something i know too much about.

  21. #46
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    But chinese is a tonal language (same as thai)
    Right.

    So it will be much easier for a Thai to learn than for a native English speaker.

    I think Malay also has quite a lot of words borrowed from English, right?

    The completely understandable difficulties that Thais have learning English should not be minimised.

    With a few tweaks to their approach those difficulties can be overcome but reflection on reasons for past failures is needed and, well, you know the rest...

    Well done to your son on his IELTS band 7 btw. There are not many who crack that in Thailand.
    Last edited by cyrille; 21-05-2020 at 09:18 AM.

  22. #47
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    I know, tone perfect ...

    Only a little bit spicy please,
    I have little money* (when I smile and see the Family)
    Your shell is beautifull and tasty
    Excuse me ... I don't speak Thai (which, of course makes them rattle off more Thai)
    Pork Noodle please ... no guts of the animal or blood please.
    ** FOR

    The rest of my Thai is sadly, less then tone perfect.

    *I used to say I have no Money ... but apparently that is bad luck to say
    “Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago”

  23. #48
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    ^ ** Fuck off Ray ... as he will be sniffing around with some, inane derogatory comment.

    reach-a-round has a less then amazing ability to make a comment about a post of mine, made in jest, out of proportion to score some little point in his little mind about what he thinks my life is Thailand is like and what my relationship with my Thai Partner, our kids and the wider Thai Family is like.

  24. #49
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    ^ ** Fuck off Ray ... as he will be sniffing around with some, inane derogatory comment.

    reach-a-round has a less then amazing ability to make a comment about a post of mine, made in jest, out of proportion to score some little point in his little mind about what he thinks my life is Thailand is like and what my relationship with my Thai Partner, our kids and the wider Thai Family is like.
    ...upsetting...any examples to share?...

  25. #50
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...upsetting...any examples to share?...
    Mate, too many to re-count.

    Ray doesn't pen many threads, only three this year, two in 2019 ... almost none relating to Thailand.

    All of a sudden he pens this ... Thailand's Paternity and Custody Laws

    Subtle, so subtle shot aimed at me and my family as he knows that, despite a 10 year relationship with my Thai Partner, we aren't officially married and have children together and implying, under Thai Law, that our children are bastards.

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