The COVID-2019 Thread

[hallelujah]

Anyway, football beckons.

In the main, it was a nice little bit of intellectual jousting today that delved beneath the surface of our current situation (I was in a taxi to work with a dodgy Internet connection, so my apologies if I came across a little bit brusque to you both misskit and snubs) and exposed the winners and losers of the pandemic.

Thankfully it was mostly bereft of insults - apart from harry, his wont when he's losing and has his back to the wall - and it was nice to have an adult chat, which I clearly won.

Adios, hombres.

[david44]

Adios, hombres

Old camp Nou advice

"Siempre deja espacio para uno artillero trasero"

Beware of a the rear gunners

[S Landreth]

Anyone else see a pattern developing?

• New U.S. cases of omicron variant found in Minnesota, Colorado.

Three states in the U.S. have identified new cases of the omicron variant of the coronavirus. On Thursday, health officials from Minnesota and Colorado both announced one case of the new, highly mutated variant, one day after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported the first individual detected with omicron in California.

All three cases have mild symptoms or are recovering, health officials say.

Minnesota's Department of Health said an adult male, who lives in Hennepin County, was found to have the variant. He was vaccinated about six months ago and had gotten his booster shot in early November, officials with the department said during a briefing Thursday.

He had mild symptoms on Nov. 22, which have since resolved.

A female resident of Colorado has also contracted the variant strain of the virus, the state's department of health confirmed Thursday. The woman, who lives in Arapahoe County, had recently traveled to South Africa and was fully vaccinated, but had not yet received a booster shot.

She is experiencing mild symptoms and isolating in her home, according to Colorado Department of Health and Environment.

The person in California, an adult under age 50, developed symptoms a few days after arriving in the U.S. and got tested on Nov. 28, California Gov. Gavin Newsom said in a briefing Wednesday. The test came back positive for Covid-19 on Monday, Nov. 29.

"The individual, who was fully vaccinated and had mild symptoms that are improving, is self-quarantining and has been since testing positive," the CDC reported in a statement.

Meanwhile, public health experts continue to recommend tried-and-true ways of Covid protection: vaccination and a booster, wearing masks indoors and in crowded spaces, and continued physical distancing.

Update……..

• Five cases of Omicron COVID-19 variant detected in New York state

Five cases of the Omicron variant have been detected in New York state, Governor Kathy Hochul said Thursday night. The announcement comes just hours after Minnesota health officials said they had identified their first case in a resident who had traveled to New York City in November for a convention that drew thousands of attendees.

Hawaii has also identified its first case of the Omicron variant, state health officials announced Thursday. The announcement brings the tally to at least nine total cases of the variant of concern spotted in the United States.

Officials in New York and Hawaii both say the variant is spreading in their states, leading to infections not linked to recent international trips.

[Chico]

AirAsia CEO 'bullish' on beating Omicron

PUBLISHED : 2 DEC 2021 AT 19:39

WRITER: JANINE PHAKDEETHAM

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AirAsia Group chief executive Tony Fernandes shares his views during Bangkok Post’s International Forum 2021 dubbed “Unleashing the Future: A Glimpse into 2022 and Beyond” on Thursday. (Photo: Varuth Hirunyatheb)
AirAsia Group chief executive Tony Fernandes has urged governments to stop “overreacting” to the emergence of the new Omicron variant of Covid-19 and focus on reducing the cost of PCR testing instead.
“It’s a huge overreaction. We don’t know anything about this variant yet. Let’s wait and see before we jump the gun,” Mr Fernandes said at a virtual address at Bangkok Post’s International Forum 2021 dubbed “Unleashing the Future: A Glimpse into 2022 and Beyond” on Thursday.
The chief executive of the low-cost carrier said the world is more equipped and better prepared to deal with Omicron — first detected in South Africa — than previous strains.
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“There are Merck pills, and Pfizer pills are coming out. We are vaccinated. There are boosters available. I’m feeling much more bullish, and I am not doom and gloom,” he said.
“Governments need to use common sense and see what is needed. I think travel restrictions and [such measures] are temporary, and the world is global. No matter how much we close the borders, the viruses will travel.”
He criticised the pricing and frequency of the PCR tests required by many governments, including Thailand, when travellers enter their borders. He said this risks deterring passengers from taking a vacation despite the pent-up demand to venture overseas.
“No government has looked at the cost of the PCR test. PCR tests in Southeast Asia are extremely [expensive]. It’s unfair for passengers to pay that kind of cost. Of course, we want to be safe, but make it as simple as possible.”
He praised Thailand for planning to reduce some of these charges and procedures.
“Thailand is ahead of the rest of Asean, which are still quite draconian," he said, referring to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.
"In Malaysia, we have a seven-day quarantine. It’s a start. At least we are opening up borders, but there’s a long way to go before we get to where we used to be."
As for AirAsia's operations and outlook for 2022, Mr Fernandes said he had restructured the company and pivoted to more digital businesses.
So far, the low-cost carrier has launched three logistics businesses — a food delivery super-app, online bank BigPay, and parcel delivery service Teleport. The company has no plans to cut routes yet, it said.
The group CEO was optimistic about the future of the aviation industry. He said he expects low-cost carriers to bounce back faster than full-service airlines as most passengers prefer to travel short distances. Moreover, business travellers are getting used to attending meetings virtually instead of in person, he said.

[S Landreth]

In other news………

Thai AirAsia X looking for new investors

[Samuel]

“There are Merck pills, and Pfizer pills are coming out. We are vaccinated. There are boosters available. I’m feeling much more bullish, and I am not doom and gloom,” he said.

Yes, those Merck pills could be a game changer.

[Troy]

With cases and associated deaths hitting record numbers in Germany at the moment I guess we were lucky with our timely departure.

What do others think about the restrictions on the unvaccinated and the possibility of mandatory vaccinations by February? A couple of weeks ago they were having to move infected patients to hospitals outside Bavaria due to the numbers and it looks to be worse in other regions.

I am a little surprised about forcing vaccinations even if I think as many as possible should be vaccinated.

[cyrille]

Yes, those Merck pills could be a game changer.

The game remains very much the same with Tony Fernandes though.

Every one of his comments on how much things have improved and how much more they can improve are, by happy coincidence, also about him making more money.

[malmomike77]

What do others think about the restrictions on the unvaccinated and the possibility of mandatory vaccinations by February?

The imposition of restrictions until the current crisis has passed is a sensible precaution, even if those who won't get vaccinated don't like it as they pose a threat through clogging hospitals, so tough - their choice not to get vaccinated has consequences.

The more sensitive issue of mandatory vaccinations is a difficult one of personal choice. Whilst i find peoples decision to opt out of vaccinations inexplicable it is still a sign of a free society and i think taking freedom of decision away is a worrying move.

[OhOh]

The vaccinated are NOT as likely to spread the virus

Possibly not, but the differentiation is becoming absolute in many countries.

The possibility is there and acknowledged. Refusing to be inclusive for all citizens is a dangerous step.

[OhOh]

No, vaccinated people are not 'just as infectious' as unvaccinated people if they get COVID

Your links:

No, vaccinated people are not 'just as infectious' as unvaccinated people if they get COVID

The first sentence:

"Some recent studies have shown similar peak viral loads in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people who contract COVID."

Which suggests some other "recent studies" have a different outcome.

502 Bad Gateway

Third paragraph:

"However, a recent studyTrusted Source shows that when fully vaccinated people do contract the coronavirus, they can still transmit it."

Do you ever get anything right? Ever? Like just once?

Absolutely on many occasions yes and have reaped the awards. Luckily for all concerned, when not, the consequences have not caused any deaths.

I've never been in a position where my decision would cause others pain or death.

Those that assume power over their citizens must carry the blame, and be held to be responsible. Are they ready to be judged, or will they point at others who advise, who spread false rumours?

[hallelujah]

It pains me to say it, but fair play to elements of the right-wing press for calling out the scaremongering and massaging of the number of deaths to instill more fear (and compliance) in the general population.

TOM UTLEY: My mother-in-law's death at 99 was included in the daily Covid toll | Daily Mail Online

The true numbers of deaths caused by Covid are clearly wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy below those that we're told to believe.

[Little Chuchok]

Why don't "they" aspirate?

[Shutree]

The true numbers of deaths caused by Covid are clearly wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy below those that we're told to believe.

To what, then, do you attribute the leap in 5-year rolling total deaths?
More people than would be expected to die have in fact died over the past year and a half. Those numbers don't tell you what to think. They are just numbers. Of dead people.

[hallelujah]

To what, then, do you attribute the leap in 5-year rolling total deaths?
More people than would be expected to die have in fact died over the past year and a half. Those numbers don't tell you what to think. They are just numbers. Of dead people.

Yes, more people have died over the last couple of years because of Covid. I don't disagree with this.

However, it's absolutely nowhere near the figures we're told; many of them happened to have the flu at the time of death, but it wasn't the reason for their demise. The figures are massively skewed given the way that deaths are reported (anyone being positive for Covid within 28 days of death in the UK goes down as the lurgy).

It's madness and does nothing more than feed into the pervasive culture of fear.

[sabang]

Just heard, my cousin in the UK has got it. He's 58, non-smoker- I'm confident he will pull through, but accounts are he feels like absolute shit. Another worry though is he visited his father (my uncle) in hospital recently. If he has copped it, it may well be curtains. Obviously frantic testing going on- not just my uncle, but cousins family too- he's married with kids. Fingers crossed.

[hallelujah]

Fingers crossed indeed.

Hope they're both ok.

[misskit]

^^My fingers crossed for your pops also, sabang.

Regarding the reporting of covid as the cause of death, there are probably more people dying of covid that are underreported than vice versa. And like shutree says, we won’t know until the death figures for the year are compared to previous years.

That said, I know of a woman who’s adult son died of a drug overdose. He also had tested positive for covid. The woman pitched a fit that the coroner was recording his death as a drug overdose. She didn’t believe it and didn’t want it on his death certificate. The coroner was good to her and recorded the death as a covid death. Now that right-wing nutball is screaming because it is a false covid death report.

[OhOh]

Fingers crossed indeed.

Thank you, for your rep.

As you reply here, fingers crossed for so many aspects of this pandemic.

A very trying and unstable time we live in. We all hope for a happy ending.

[russellsimpson]

The figures are massively skewed given the way that deaths are reported (anyone being positive for Covid within 28 days of death in the UK goes down as the lurgy).

It's madness and does nothing more than feed into the pervasive culture of fear.

Amen to that bro.

Anyone else see a pattern developing?

I don't. Can you clarify please.

[cyrille]

We all hope for a happy ending.

Hey, let's just aim for staying alive at this point.

[hallelujah]

Thank you, for your rep.

As you reply here, fingers crossed for so many aspects of this pandemic.

A very trying and unstable time we live in. We all hope for a happy ending.

You're welcome.

You've certainly earned it on numerous threads.

[harrybarracuda]

Yes, more people have died over the last couple of years because of Covid. I don't disagree with this.

However, it's absolutely nowhere near the figures we're told; many of them happened to have the flu at the time of death, but it wasn't the reason for their demise. The figures are massively skewed given the way that deaths are reported (anyone being positive for Covid within 28 days of death in the UK goes down as the lurgy).

It's madness and does nothing more than feed into the pervasive culture of fear.

It's only an estimate at this point anyway, especially with the Russians lying about the true extent of the disease there.

It will be years before a reasonably accurate death toll is calculated.

How many people have died because of the covid-19 pandemic? The answer depends both on the data available, and on how you define “because”. Many people who die while infected with SARS-CoV-2 are never tested for it, and do not enter the official totals. Conversely, some people whose deaths have been attributed to covid-19 had other ailments that might have ended their lives on a similar timeframe anyway. And what about people who died of preventable causes during the pandemic, because hospitals full of covid-19 patients could not treat them? If such cases count, they must be offset by deaths that did not occur but would have in normal times, such as those caused by flu or air pollution.

The pandemic’s true death toll | The Economist

[hallelujah]

That is one of the most measured posts I've seen you contribute to this thread so far, h.

I was expecting a link to rising cases in, say, Moldovia, or at least some random doctor's quote about impending doom and death for us all.

Was that defeat last night akin to a knock to the head or something?

[OhOh]

especially with the Russians lying about the true extent of the disease there.

Thank goodness it's only the Russians, eh.